read more: FFB Tweaks

I've worked with x4fab to add a new feature to the Custom Shaders Patch (as of 0.1.51) and the description is fairly brief so I thought it's worth going into a bit more detail about what this does.

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Gyro Implementation

[ ] Active check to enable
Strength 25% adjust effect strength
AC has an "Experimental Gyro" FFB effect whose purpose was adding gyroscopic effects to the steering. It never lost the experimental tag and all it's generally recommended for is damping down oscillations on direct drive wheels.
This is that, developed slightly further based on my understanding of the nature of gyroscopic forces. I have a pretty solid case for making this change, and I believe this force exists in actual cars, and AC's original experimental gyro does not.

The developed version still suits the purpose of damping oscillations, but more importantly it decouples the body from the front wheels - so if the front wheels are pointing in a direction and the body moves around them, no gyroscopic precession happens, and no force is generated. Concretely, what we're talking about here is oversteer - on the original experimental gyro, the force acts counter to self-alignment during oversteer. With this new implementation, self-alignment is allowed to occur freely, or, if the oversteer is so quick that the wheels can't self-align, it'll actually push in the direction of alignment.

25% is simply equivalent to the original force multiplier used on experimental gyro when merging it with other FFB forces. Ultimately, the same as the other amplification ffb effects like road and slip effect, the slider is available to magnify it if your hardware's limitations are obscuring the effect.
As of CSP 0.1.53 the strength slider is outdated. A calculation using the suspension geometry now provides the right precession-based force for each car.
The description is a little bit misleading; this replaces "Experimental Gyro" so disabling it is superfluous, if this is Active, experimental gyro is not. Still, it won't hurt to disable experimental gyro and be certain it's off.

Now that I've said what the intent is, I will also note the following: this changes FFB in pretty much every dynamic situation. It's not just an improvement for drift cars or for vintage cars that oversteer constantly; any time the car moves around on the tires it feels slightly different from before. To me, it's a positive change, it's clearer what the car is doing, and I have heard similarly positive comments from testers. Nonetheless, I am not omniscient, I have not driven all these cars in real life, it's up to you to decide whether it improves your game or gives you better sim feeling the rubber or what. Modifying games to improve the FFB is a fine tradition starting with some extremely thorough efforts in rfactor1, and this is no different (maybe a bit easier to install).

I will note that it slightly increases max forces when cornering so if you have stuff set up to barely clip, you'll need an adjustment downward in global ffb mult.

Range Compression

Range compression 100% - 100% is the "default off" of this effect
[ ] Range compression assist - check to convert cars' "steer assist" into range compression.

New FFB Tweak available as of 0.1.53. The name comes from the audio world, where dynamic range compression means bringing up the quiet sounds while leaving loud sounds at their original volume. This is a much more second derivative friendly version of the Gamma effect.

The percentage is straightforward: Set it to how much you want to multiply small forces. Or adjust it in sync with your overall gain if you want to maintain the level of small forces and change large forces. For example, 200% compression + 50% gain = original 100% on small forces, larger forces decrease. If you're curious, the curve at the point of maximum force is simply the inverse, 200% compression will cause large forces 50% of the original delta in force. But in combination with 50% gain, you're moving the original maximum force downward and the ceiling before the game clips is much higher.

Think of this like power steering: you only want it to assist the heavy forces and give you maximum feel of the light forces.

This is very much an "adjust to taste" thing, it operates smoothly enough that you're safe running it upward of 300%, and I have seen IRL data indicating that manufacturers effectively go as high as 600% in power steering systems, when they want to bring 20+N forces down to a comfortable 2-3N.

Steer assist is a built in per-car feature of AC that applies a gamma function to that car's FFB. If you check Range compression assist, then FFB Tweaks will calculate an appropriate range compression adjustment, and disable steer assist. This should give you a far more normal FFB feeling (no weird bumps around center) while retaining the original goal of giving high downforce cars enough low-speed FFB to be drivable.
 
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  • Deleted member 197115

I find the road effects to be unrealistic back ground noise, which just adds to the confusion.
We need real physics FFB from the road.
This is what Stefano posted a while back
The "road effect" is totally coming from the physic engine, it's amplifying the effect of load changes on the FF, so if the load doesn't change (ie, the road is flat) you get nothing... it's not a procedural noise added over the surface.
Slip effect is also coming from what the tyres are doing so, again, it's strictly related to what it is happening.
The only effect that is 100% "canned" is the curb effect... as it is also happening on curbs that are 100% smooth.

And I suggest to open your own thread instead of hijacking Stereo's new Gyro specific.

EDIT: I see you already did, then stop cross posting.
 
So you're saying road effects are amplifying the surface detail but Stefano's post seems to indicate it's a FFB gain knob. I don't think this is hijacking as it's tied to the forces being used/manipulated in this tool. I'd also like to know what settings are ideal for Stereo's app.
 
So you're saying road effects are amplifying the surface detail but Stefano's post seems to indicate it's a FFB gain knob.
I'm saying Road Effects amplify what road detail you already feel through the wheel, so you can feel it better on weaker wheels. You know, like Stefano said: "The "road effect" is totally coming from the physic engine, it's amplifying the effect of load changes on the FF[...]" which means that if you feel rumbles in a road at a certain intensity through your wheel, but you would like to feel them better, you can make that stronger by adding some percent of Road Effect. It doesn't influence other FFB parameters/effects.

I'd also like to know what settings are ideal for Stereo's app.
In his OP he says 25% should feel like the stock gyro in terms of strength. So I'd say take 25% as a base line, and either add or subtract from that if the wheel pulls too much/too little. For me on my SimuCube 2 Pro 15% are fantastic.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

Finally I will note that it slightly increases max forces when cornering so if you have stuff set up to barely clip, you'll need an adjustment downward in global ffb mult.
@Stereo
After playing back and forth with this feature on SC2 Pro, my findings:
- recovering from oversteer is great and feels very natural with wheel magically self aligning itself
- tried 10% and even 5%, but even with such low numbers that supposedly "slight" increase in cornering feels overwhelming, wheel just gets non linearly heavy for no apparent reason.
Tried to drop FFB gain, still that part feels over exaggerated. Switched to stock gyro and it immediately clicked back.
Not sure if there is anything that can be done here, I believe you mentioned before that stock gyro was also activated based on vehicle speed, as high speed is where oscillation usually happens, if new gyro force is present always, that might be the culprit of that undesirable spike in resistance.

Went back to stock gyro for now. Hopefully you can come with some solution, may be activation speed slider, or hard coded speed value.
 
It takes speed into account the same way as the original (force is proportional to tire inertia times speed), the only reason I can come up with that it would seem constant is that since cornering force is about constant (1G lateral or whatever regardless of speed), the rate of yaw is exactly inversely proportional to speed and results in an equal amount of force.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

It takes speed into account the same way as the original (force is proportional to tire inertia times speed), the only reason I can come up with that it would seem constant is that since cornering force is about constant (1G lateral or whatever regardless of speed), the rate of yaw is exactly inversely proportional to speed and results in an equal amount of force.
Guess I slightly misread your original explanation on discord, not vehicle speed, wheelspeed.
If you turn this on, vanilla gyro is forced off, cause it’s the same function with a bugfix for the coordinate system it uses. it still damps ffb, but the actual amount varies depending what the car’s doing as a whole instead of just related to wheelspeed. so effectively it’s still the gyro force that makes front wheels want to keep going the direction they’re pointing. but in practice it damps over/understeer forces much less now

With some high grip cars like DTM it's almost impossible to turn wheel when cornering with this on, and forget hairpins.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

And there is one more thing I've noticed today after doing some other ABA settings testing.
SAT snap back, that jerk that happens when tires gain traction after sliding, is very harsh, couldn't tame it down even with extra dampening in SC2 software. Tried default 25%, 10%, 5%, feels quite brutal.
With stock gyro there is more gentle release of the wheel, and need very small extra dampening ~5%.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

OEM. The last problem was discoveted with KTM XBow.
The resistance to turn the most pronounced on Kunos M3 DTM version but seems like affecting most if not all cars with high mechanical grip on racing tires.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

I'm not sure if that's a problem for the KTM, that's the exact time I'd expect this to generate large forces (grippy lightweight car should snap pretty hard)
RUF is even worse. It is mostly DD wheels problem I guess as they do not have natural belt damping. Gyro was helping. I can even disable all damping in Simucube, leave just stock Gyro and it behaves like you would expect from the car, with new version it's not pleasant, and definitely not something I'd expect (experienced) in real car.
Guess tuning it for DD based on verbal feedback alone would be challenging.
 
Thanks for making this Stereo. Tested this morning, XBow at Nords and RSS F2000 at various mod tracks. It's superb! Ran on Simucube 1 (small Mige) and no negative issues at all. Finally I can feel what the rear of the car is doing when oversteering + (and I have no idea how or why) the tyres now feel like they're made of rubber. Awesome stuff!!
 
  • Deleted member 197115

Did you turn on the experimental gyro? Shouldn't oscillate any more than previously, really.
Guess it all depends on the wheel, car and what exactly is meant by oscillation here.
On Simucube2 I did not notice significant change with oscillation on straightaways, Stereo also posted on discord new beta version that has strength calculation based on caster, which fixes feel of increased resistance in turns with high mechanical grip cars.
But what also changed is gyro not acting as a SAT damper anymore, when it was resisting wheel quickly snapping back after understeer slip.
It might not be an issue if your wheel or settings use high damper already as it more or less might take care of that to a degree, but those who used to run lower level to preserve details and wheel agility will be affected.
Unfortunately just increasing damper will also affect overall wheel weight, speed, and muffle some details.
Stock Gyro was good in that regard acting as dynamic damper that was not always ON.
Good to see some development there, but afraid it needs more tuning for wider audience, including DD owners.
 
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