RD Formula FG Championship Season 1

[Milos]

Crap, Harvey just missed out on the first 6 to get us 200$ extra, while Joel's lack of boost is clearly visible.

 

[mystaaRS]

Crap, Harvey just missed out on the first 6 to get us 200$ extra, while Joel's lack of boost is clearly visible.

Your lack of positiveness is clear too

 

[Milos]

Your lack of positiveness is clear too

No positiveness for 7 thousands off 200$ extra. I don't care about results anymore, just the money

 

[Tim.E]

Hmm, excited about the race, wonder what will happen.

 

[Smartbean]

The thing is guys, while I note your reservations about getting randomised out of the window, let it be known that things like that can happen. All of a sudden a team/engine is not anywhere near as good. Lotus F1 2013 (winner)-2014 (omg we got points!?!).
What's more, as many people demonstrated at season start, they were willing to take the risk on T2 and T3 engines. If you think you might get randomised out the window, maybe think of taking less risk? That is what it is all about at season start, risk vs reward.

I see what you mean with your Lotus example, though keep in mind that between the 2013-2014 seasons the big factor was the 'unknown' of the engine switch to the hybrid one. that affected a lot. Looking past that change; there will be still progression from the 2014 to 2015 season in understanding and development of those 'new' engines. That's what we're on about, progression and not so much risk v reward.

The big thing here is that we've seen steamrolling teams in the F1 series due to prize money, which I feel would be akin to allowing extra skill/HP values over from season to season (don't get me wrong, I am not having a go at it, just it isn't the direction I want in this series). rFactor on the other hand, we haven't seen many people dominate it season on season, we haven't seen a double champion yet, and doubt we will for a while. All because of a total reset (and negligible money carry-over).

Again I see what you mean, and yes I agree that prize money does have it's impact, though for the sake of sense of progression a small percentage of skill/bhp/cof to be carried over seems quite realistic to real life development imo. Maybe not like the percentages I used in my examples and actually a reversed scale of them can make things a lot more fair to everyone on the grid. I will explain this below, watch this space

But I will say this, it is hard to know what is going to happen between seasons the first time. If, and only if, it seems that we can have a small amount of carry over, it can be looked at. But it is going to be so hard to do so, look at Jack Hunsley, +455 skill. Even if I allowed 10% of that he is at +45 at season start. Already well on the way to having another strong season. Look at last round with Viper. Because of their T3 engines, they bought +12 HP in one go. If any of the leading teams were allowed to have more HP they are again starting to streak ahead.

To combat this and keep a level playing field, maybe a reversed order of percentage carried over can be applied.

So instead of:
1-5 = 25.0%
6-10 = 22.5%
11-15 = 20.0%
16-22 = 17.5%

and for teams:
1-3 = 25.0%
4-6 = 22.5%
7-9 = 20.0%
10-11 = 17.5%

Have this:
Drivers:
1-5 = 17.5%
6-10 = 20.0%
11-15 = 22.5%
16-22 = 25.0%

Teams:
1-3 = 17.5%
4-6 = 20.0%
7-9 = 22.5%
10-11 = 25.0%

This way the back markers can carry over a little bit more and the top can carry over a little bit less. ie. say Hunsley ends up in the top 3 of the drivers championship and has 16500 skill, he gets 17.5% of 500 carried over which amounts to 87,5 (rounded up to 90) and let's say I end up 20th in the drivers championship with 16250 skill, I would get 25% of 250 carried over which amounts to 62,5 (rounded down to 60). then We both get extra skill carried over, but the gap of 30 skill is much more fair than 25% of 500 for Hunsley and 17,5% of 250 for me as I originally described in my examples.

Of course it looks a bit dodgy giving the top finishers in the drivers/constructors championships a lower kind of reward this way, but there is still a sense of progression into the next season for everyone whilst keeping it fair towards the back markers to

Lastly I feel, everything that I made in this series was designed such that even if you start as a backmarker, you should be able to move upwards if you can make some good decisions along the way, and keep a flow of money coming in. So if it happens, don't see a large reset as being a massive problem, see it as a chance to test yourself, and your tactics to get your team to the front.

And with my revision of the percentage build up (as described above), the back markers take a slightly bigger cut of the progression they made during the season to take into the next, closing the gap (slightly) to the front runners. This way everyone progresses and things won't be completely random by the big reset of skills back to 16000...doesn't everyone win this way?

PS. great qualifying result for Hungary, can't wait for the race

 

[Aidan Keranen]

It's just not going to work, the problem being with the percentage being that even at a slight reduction, Hunsley is a light year ahead. Plus when you have 10th and 11th on the same skill basically, then the sense of progression is lost because the guy in 11th has more carryover than in 10th.

As this series utilises signing drivers to keep the driver market moving, all of a sudden if you finished 10th, you are slightly less valuable that finishing 11th? For me that is a bit of a joke.

Sorry mate, but once you start playing with carryover, the entire mechanic of the game changes, and it won't come back. New drivers are going to be at a massive disadvantage to those racing since S1, as will new teams, but not so much. I will look at this a bit more after Season 2 as by then we have a strong idea of what works and what doesn't during off season.

 

[Smartbean]

It's just not going to work, the problem being with the percentage being that even at a slight reduction, Hunsley is a light year ahead. Plus when you have 10th and 11th on the same skill basically, then the sense of progression is lost because the guy in 11th has more carryover than in 10th.
As this series utilises signing drivers to keep the driver market moving, all of a sudden if you finished 10th, you are slightly less valuable that finishing 11th? For me that is a bit of a joke.

For every problem a solution, right? Maybe cut out the difference in midfield and end up with:
1-5 = 10% of upgraded skills carried over
6-17 = 15% of upgraded skills carried over
18-22 = 20% of upgraded skills carried over

This A) negates the top or Hunsley in your example to be miles ahead, B) the midfield is at the same level so the sense of progression is still there and C) the back markers close the gap further to the midfield.

For teams, same thing, simplify it to a 1-3 / 4-8 / 9-11 scale and adjust the percentages to 10%/15%/20% respectively.

Sorry mate, but once you start playing with carryover, the entire mechanic of the game changes, and it won't come back. New drivers are going to be at a massive disadvantage to those racing since S1, as will new teams, but not so much. I will look at this a bit more after Season 2 as by then we have a strong idea of what works and what doesn't during off season.

I do understand that reservation, no worries. It's good to know that it is still something to think about further along the line though - which also gives the time to come up with new ideas or polish this/these ones.

 

[Aidan Keranen]

Hungarian Grand Prix Part 1

(yes it is uploaded straight away)

 

[Deleted member 161052]

P15, as of Lap 25.

 

[mystaaRS]

@Jimlaad43 7:25

 

[Jimlaad43]

For every problem a solution, right? Maybe cut out the difference in midfield and end up with:
1-5 = 10% of upgraded skills carried over
6-17 = 15% of upgraded skills carried over
18-22 = 20% of upgraded skills carried over

This A) negates the top or Hunsley in your example to be miles ahead, B) the midfield is at the same level so the sense of progression is still there and C) the back markers close the gap further to the midfield.

For teams, same thing, simplify it to a 1-3 / 4-8 / 9-11 scale and adjust the percentages to 10%/15%/20% respectively.


I do understand that reservation, no worries. It's good to know that it is still something to think about further along the line though - which also gives the time to come up with new ideas or polish this/these ones.

It's getting way to complicated now, and it's being shot down everytime it's suggested. Can we just accept that this isn't going to happen and move on please.

 

[Smartbean]

It's getting way to complicated now, and it's being shot down everytime it's suggested. Can we just accept that this isn't going to happen and move on please.

Don't want to come across too blunt, but it probably sounds complicated if you don't read everything and just see the numbers fly by. In fact my last post (the one you quoted) basically contains the essence of the my suggestions, which (to me) sound quite clear really and not at all complicated. Even though the suggestions are being shot down every time, doesn't mean we should stop discussing them. Like Aidan said himself, discussions, ideas and suggestions to improve the series are welcome.

In my view the series could benefit from some form of sense of progression throughout the seasons. I keep tinkering my suggestions when it's being met with counter arguments. I'm not claiming my idea(s) are fault proof, but tinkering and polishing them could end up gaining more support for them and eventually could be a great edition to the series (after a couple of seasons).

Anyway, back to Budapest now

 

[Tim.E]

Noooooooo, well it happened. The bad curse is gone I hope

 

[the_sigman]

Shame for Tim and Jack, but a chance of a podium, or even P2 if I catch Tapio before the 2nd round of stops, is pretty good. Now let's continue the run of the blistering laps

 

[kedy89]

More concentration Ben, we've already lost enough points due to individual mistakes this season.

 

[mystaaRS]

Some drivers were really unlucky e.g. Tim, Jack, Daniel and Xen and there was a lot of drama and surprises, shame for Xen who had to retire yet again after being in a good position. We now await the 2nd part to see what will occur in the Hungarian GP

 

[Jimlaad43]

Some drivers were really unlucky e.g. Tim, Jack, Daniel and Xen and there was a lot of drama and surprises, shame for Xen who had to retire yet again after being in a good position. We now await the 2nd part to see what will occur in the Hungarian GP

Xen may have spun off, but he's still going in 16th as the first part ends.

 

[Milos]

Well.. at least it's not a DNF this time

 

[Milos]

ahhhh I see now why Harvey is going off all the time and not Joel

The car must be so difficult to handle, especially under that much pressure. Joel, being a Finnish and more experienced driver, can probably keep a cooler head than Harvey and not spin off at bloody turn 13.
Which is why he just waited behind Lintner to spin off rather than spinning off himself.

 

[mystaaRS]

Xen may have spun off, but he's still going in 16th as the first part ends.

Which isn't any better than a DNF unless 6 in front retire