ACC Porsche Cup @ Spa - Tue 13th Aug 2019

[Asterix]

I'm properly pissed off.

I detest this car in AC, and started off detesting this version too. However, I managed to find a balance with it and was able to get my head around the way it slips at the front and back. Tried it with light fuel, heavy fuel etc... all good.

Qualy - Pole - did a 2:21.7 pb on the one clean lap I managed and was chuffed to bits, especially as there were some fast guys about.

Race - clean start and managed to keep @Dennis Manke behind hoping that he'd fall back into the clutches of the following pack and be more worried about staying in front of them, rather than worry about being in front of me!

Everything was going great, car was reacting as I expected and I had reasonable, consistent pace - then after 5 laps or so, completely out of the blue, the front end started gripping really well completely throwing off the balance of the car. Every corner became an instant massive oversteer as the front turned on rails and the back end carried on in the previous direction. Ended up with a massive wall hit and the car was doomed.

I'm at a loss as to why this happened, usually when these get lighter on fuel, they understeer more as the front mounted tank empties, the tyres stayed the same temps as the previous laps, way too early for wear to make such a big difference, my style stayed the same.

So after a while of trying to work it out - I came back out but with half the fuel load. Straight back into low 2.22s and even matched my qualy time in the 21s. Then, exactly the same, after 5 or 6 laps, the front end started gripping hard, but I was ready for it and I could prove that it was more grip rather than the rears having less as I could suddenly almost go through Eau Rouge flat without the front washing out, and Pouhon, Stavelot and Blanchimont were way faster, but now the car was really compromised for overall balance. I'm still confused, I still don't get it - like a switch was thrown. @Celtic Pharaoh - you know these cars pretty well, any ideas?

Anyway - the car had slowly crept up in my estimation from really ****, to just **** - and after taking a dump in my mouth during this race, it's now down to ****ing ****.

I'll not bother driving it again. Life is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too short.

Thanks for hosting @Daniel Monteiro

 

[Dennis Manke]

Thanks for hosting this very hard and eventfull race @Daniel Monteiro
Was very hard for me to drive fast with this car. Last 10 minutes my tires are gone and it was really slippery. Had a big slide at top of radillion 5 minutes before the race end and my heart stop for some seconds but i managed it with smooth driving to end the race really well.
Thanks to all of you guys for clean racing and hope i see you all on track very soon

 

[Alex Townsend]

Was going to join you guys this morning but I simply didn't have enough practice with this car.
It is so different from anything else in ACC, like it's been set up for drifting or something. I can't believe for a second that the real cars are this hard to drive. (Would love to be proven wrong by getting to have a go of the real thing of course)
If you do race these cars again some time I'll join you but I just couldn't keep the thing on the track for most of the time I practiced, which wasn't long enough admittedly...

 

[JussiS]

I was managing quite nicely in the race and did high 2:23s to low 2:24s consistently at the second place. But then one loss of concentration at the bus stop, full throttle too soon and spin. After that dropped a few positions, but determined to get back positions I made another little mistake in Radillon and heavy contact with the wall. Some damage to a car that slowed mainly speed on straights. After that managed to calm driving again to finish without other incidents.

Thanks for clean race for all and hosting for Daniel. Looking forward to the next races.

 

[Daniel Monteiro]

@Asterix let us know when you go on holiday so that we can set up a race with these cars again

Glad you guys enjoyed, well done to the podium and all those who kept it on the road for the whole race! We're resuming our usual routine tomorrow, at Misano

 

[Metzger82]

It was great fun. Very clean race, thanks guys!
I had very solid race and not a single spin the whole race. But I used the default safe setup and was extra careful on throttle in la source and chicane. You guys were fast, I could not keep up with the pace but consistency compensated enough for 5th position.

 

[DrSayers]

@Asterix
I think with the way the car handles, you can never really wear the fronts (mine were slightly cold for about 80% of the lap) and with the weight at the back, the rears seem to wear really quickly. (that said i lowered the rear about 5mm which helped a lot)

For me, T4,T5 chicane after the long straight, I ended up taking with about 1 degree of steering, the back was doing all the turning for me. Car was very different at the end of the race to the start. Essentially rolling through the slow speed Direction changes, Really hard car to setup.

I nearly lost it through Eau Rouge, had to stamp on the brakes and give it about 180 Degrees of "oppo" to save it. Not an easy car.

 

[Joakim Stensnæs]

I'm properly pissed off.

I detest this car in AC, and started off detesting this version too. However, I managed to find a balance with it and was able to get my head around the way it slips at the front and back. Tried it with light fuel, heavy fuel etc... all good.

Qualy - Pole - did a 2:21.7 pb on the one clean lap I managed and was chuffed to bits, especially as there were some fast guys about.

Race - clean start and managed to keep @Dennis Manke behind hoping that he'd fall back into the clutches of the following pack and be more worried about staying in front of them, rather than worry about being in front of me!

Everything was going great, car was reacting as I expected and I had reasonable, consistent pace - then after 5 laps or so, completely out of the blue, the front end started gripping really well completely throwing off the balance of the car. Every corner became an instant massive oversteer as the front turned on rails and the back end carried on in the previous direction. Ended up with a massive wall hit and the car was doomed.

I'm at a loss as to why this happened, usually when these get lighter on fuel, they understeer more as the front mounted tank empties, the tyres stayed the same temps as the previous laps, way too early for wear to make such a big difference, my style stayed the same.

So after a while of trying to work it out - I came back out but with half the fuel load. Straight back into low 2.22s and even matched my qualy time in the 21s. Then, exactly the same, after 5 or 6 laps, the front end started gripping hard, but I was ready for it and I could prove that it was more grip rather than the rears having less as I could suddenly almost go through Eau Rouge flat without the front washing out, and Pouhon, Stavelot and Blanchimont were way faster, but now the car was really compromised for overall balance. I'm still confused, I still don't get it - like a switch was thrown. @Celtic Pharaoh - you know these cars pretty well, any ideas?

Anyway - the car had slowly crept up in my estimation from really ****, to just **** - and after taking a dump in my mouth during this race, it's now down to ****ing ****.

I'll not bother driving it again. Life is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too short.

Thanks for hosting @Daniel Monteiro

Do you have a set?
Would like to see if I can replicate what you're feeling, and maybe figure out a solution and learn from it.

 

[Asterix]

Do you have a set?
Would like to see if I can replicate what you're feeling, and maybe figure out a solution and learn from it.

Here you go.

Air was 16C, Track 19C. I'm guessing it was Optimum setting. Dunno what the default is for the RD servers

Let me know if you need any other info.

 

[Tiago Gouveia]

Thanks for the race guys.

Really good fun battling, overtaking, falling behind, then chasing and nearly getting @Tiago Gouveia at the end.

I'll be back

what an amazing race, always with great fair play

thank´s for the race

 

[Joakim Stensnæs]

Here you go.

Air was 16C, Track 19C. I'm guessing it was Optimum setting. Dunno what the default is for the RD servers

Let me know if you need any other info.

What sort of pressures where you running in the race? With your set at those temps I'm at 25.6 on the fronts, 26.5 on rears. Fronts are too cold.
To me this initial feeling with your set is just that it's generally very oversteery when it's throwing the weight forward.
Testing right now, and you def need to be a lot more gentle with this than with the gt3's. Nice challenge.

 

[Asterix]

What sort of pressures where you running in the race? With your set at those temps I'm at 25.6 on the fronts, 26.5 on rears. Fronts are too cold.
To me this initial feeling with your set is just that it's generally very oversteery when it's throwing the weight forward.
Testing right now, and you def need to be a lot more gentle with this than with the gt3's. Nice challenge.

Temps when up and running were 27 at the fronts - they might cool a bit on the straights etc... 27.9 for the rears. I aim for just under 28 all round in ACC but you can't get close on the fronts. Too high a psi and you start to lose heat/grip.

Btw - saving tyre pressures seems to be a complete lottery in this game. You can save them, the track gets warmer and they change by themselves.

 

[Joakim Stensnæs]

After fixing the pressures, the car is more predictable and just quicker. More grip, better run through Eou Rouge.
After 5-6 laps I was running high 21s. With a theoretical of somewhere around 21.6.
But the general feeling I get is that it's too oversteery. Even though the car gets faster, I do feel it getting a bit more twitchy, but not too much.
This is running 60 liters of fuel.

I pumped on the fronts by 2.5PSI, but would add another .5.
The rears I added 2.0PSI, but would probably take out 0.5-1PSI again.

Also I tweaked the brake ducts. 4-4 brake ducts on a track like spa is a no no. Tyres are colder with colder brakes, meaning lower pressures and less grip in general. Also longer braking distances.
I went to 2-2 on brakes, but would probably go 2-1 (rear-front).

I always aim to be above 28. Feeling is still nice there and you don't lose too much before you're above 29 I feel. Also, I make sure to be on higher pressures to protect the tyres more against extreme flex over kerbs and what not, so you can abuse the curbs all you want. This effect does seem to have reduced a little bit though, with the new tyre model.

 

[Joakim Stensnæs]

What I would do next, would probably to up the front and rear bumps a little bit.
Maybe I'd lower the rear ride height too, to just dampen the momentum of the rear-end.

If that's feeling good on the brakes and turn in, I'd go on to try and get a bit more turn on throttle.
If not, I'd play around some more with dampers.

To make it turn more, I'd play around with rear toe, go more negative and then balance it with lower rear ARB.

 

[Joakim Stensnæs]

Cold pressures for me at 16 ambient and 19 track, is around about 28 on fronts even. There aren't too much heat going into the fronts, so maybe I'd play around with camber and toe to try and get some more heat. Lowering the front brake duct another click would also help it along, and I would probably run a little lower pressures.

If you're very aggressive with your driving and you slide a lot, I'd understand that you'd run lower starting pressures. That would make sense in what you're describing, as it'll take longer to get up to pressure. So when it does finaly get up to temp and pressure, you have a different balance in the car cause there's just more grip.

You're right when you say that as you take fuel out of the car you'll get 'less' grip on the front, but it's not the complete story. You have more weight with more fuel, and so it's also more sluggish, so it'll understeer more especially on power. If you have less weight on the front, it'll be much more reactive and you'll also experience it turning more on throttle.

 

[Daniel Monteiro]

Interesting read Joakim, quite the test session you carried out there. This is useful info for when running our next Porsche Cup race, so kudos to you