PC Upgrading Discussion

[Christopher Aponte]

you're welcome mane

 

[Damian Henderson]

don't know what Damian can come up for you (that might be cheaper better compare to what I have put right now :wink2

Will have a look later gotta do some sunday morning work. yours looks good though I think from a quick look.

 

[Emil Carlsson]

Hi all, Im currently on a 3-year old DELL laptop which barely runs Race07 on the lowest settings.

Im looking to get a new one, but a stationary this time. After spending hours reading on the internet, Im even more confused than when I started The local retailer doesnt seem too knowing either

All this talk about dual-core, quad-core and such confuses me!
1st question; What makes a quad-core at 2.6Ghz better than a dual-core or "simple"-core at the same speed?

The second confusing thing Ive stumbled across is the graphics cards.
My local retailer has one card, Sparkle Geforce 9600GT which has 2GB memory and another called XFX Geforce GTS 250 which I think is at 1GB yet the latter one is much more expensive.. how come? What else(other than GB) should I look at when selecting a graphics card?

Last but not least, Ive read that if your motherboard(or was it CPU?) isnt "64-bit" the computer wont be able to use all the RAM-memory you have... Like if my motherboard(or CPU) is at 32-bit, only 2GB of the 4GB I have in the computer will be used, is this true?

Thanks a lot in advance, Im hoping to get up and run some races with you in a near future

 

[Damian Henderson]

All this talk about dual-core, quad-core and such confuses me!
1st question; What makes a quad-core at 2.6Ghz better than a dual-core or "simple"-core at the same speed?

To put it simple, more cores is better But it depends which applications you use also, as some software don't take advantage of 4 cores, but in today's world just about everything does take advantage of 4+ cores and games are taking advantage of them. Race07 does not however and I was quite shocked to see that when it came out, but most other stuff you will find 4 cores the better option.

The second confusing thing Ive stumbled across is the graphics cards.
My local retailer has one card, Sparkle Geforce 9600GT which has 2GB memory and another called XFX Geforce GTS 250 which I think is at 1GB yet the latter one is much more expensive.. how come? What else(other than GB) should I look at when selecting a graphics card?

Nvidia's naming don't help but the GTS 250 is a re-branded 9800GTX+ , which is faster then the 9600GT, so faster = more money.

To help you hers a list of Nvidia cards, faster ones towards bottom ( you don't want anything lower then 9600GT ideally )

GeForce 9400 GT
GeForce 9500 Series
GeForce 9600 GT / GSO
GeForce 9800 GT / 8800 GT
GeForce 9800 GTX
GeForce 9800 GTX+ / GTS 250
GeForce 9800 GX2
-----------------------------------
GeForce GTS 250 (9800GTX+)
GeForce GTX 260 192 core
GeForce GTX 260 216 core (faster / better version)
GeForce GTX 275
GeForce GTX 280
GeForce GTX 285
GeForce GTX 295

ATi:

Radeon HD 4350
Radeon HD 4550
Radeon HD 4650
Radeon HD 4670
Radeon HD 4830
Radeon HD 4850
Radeon HD 4770
Radeon HD 4870
Radeon HD 4890
Radeon HD 4870X2
---------------------
4670 is equivalent to a 9600GT
4850 is equivalent to a 9800GTX
4870 is equivalent to a GTX260
4890 is equivalent to a GTX275
4870X2 is equivalent to a GTX285
Just a quick example.

Last but not least, Ive read that if your motherboard(or was it CPU?) isnt "64-bit" the computer wont be able to use all the RAM-memory you have... Like if my motherboard(or CPU) is at 32-bit, only 2GB of the 4GB I have in the computer will be used, is this true?

It's not the CPU or Motherboard but the OS ( Operating System ) You need 64bit to use 4gb + . With 32bit OS it can only address up to around 3.25GB.

 

[Eric. K]

It's not the CPU or Motherboard but the OS ( Operating System ) You need 64bit to use 4gb + . With 32bit OS it can only address up to around 3.25GB.

Damian a 32bit OS can address up to 4GB (Vista does it by default on XP u need to make sure to turn on shadowing in the bios). However for anything above, you do need a 64bit OS.

 

[Damian Henderson]

RGR, never really tried that TBH, will have to if a situation like it comes up again :good:

 

[Emil Carlsson]

Wow, thanks a lot man! You've really made things clearer, especially in the graphics-jungle
Im currently looking at 2 alternatives of pre-built PC's(although one of them is a "build-it-youself").
Ive built computers before but the last one was about 7 years ago
Once again, thank you!

 

[Damian Henderson]

If you can build computers I would advise building yourself as you will get a much better deal.

What pre built systems where you looking at and where from?

 

[Emil Carlsson]

The one I have to assemble myself includes the following(its a "great deal"-computer at www.komplett.se);

• MSI P45 NEO-F, P45, Socket-775, DDR2, 1600FSB, ATX, ICH10, PCI-Ex(2.0)x16
• Intel Core™ 2 Quad Q9400 2,66GHz, Socket 775, 6MB, 1333MHz
• Corsair TWIN2X 6400 DDR2, 4096MB CL5, Kit w/two matched CM2X2048-6400 Dimm's
• ASUS GeForce GTX 260 896MB PhysX CUDA PCI-Express 2.0, 2xDVI, HDMI, HDCP, Core 216, Graphics Plus, 55nm
• COST ~€760

The other one is prebuild from my local retailer, "Datadoktorn";

• GIGABYTE MA790X-UD3P SLI
• AMD Athlon II 64 X2 245 2.9Ghz
• 8GB DDR2 800Mhz (Dont know anything else about it)
• XFX Geforce GTS 250
• COST ~€1040

Both have a "Samsung SpinPoint F1 1TB SATA2 32MB 7200RPM" and of course powersupply, chassi and DVD. The reason I dont build one entirely by myself is that Ive come to hate computers the latest years and I want something which've been tested and is guaranteed to work

 

[Damian Henderson]

The pre built one cost 300 euro's more then the one you would have to build your self, but the bigger point is the pre build one is allot slower, slower cpu and video card etc, your paying more for a slower system basically.

If you could I would build one , to save you money and have a faster system which is much more future proof.

 

[Emil Carlsson]

So are you saying a Quad is ALWAYS better than a Dual, or is there a certain amount of Ghz-difference that makes a Dual better?
For example, is a "Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz" slower than a "Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 2,66GHz"?
I have decided that Im prepared to pay some extra for a company to build, test and guarantee the computer is functioning.

 

[Damian Henderson]

So are you saying a Quad is ALWAYS better than a Dual, or is there a certain amount of Ghz-difference that makes a Dual better?

Well with the 2 cpu's in the systems you shown the Q9400 is simply a much much faster CPU, the AMD X2 is quite old now and can't compete. The latest AMD cpu's which can compete are the Phenom 2's.

For example, is a "Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz" slower than a "Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 2,66GHz"?

It depends on the application, newer games are taking advantage of 4 cores allot more and it's better for the future, but allot of games still take advantage of the higher clocked cpu with 2 cores over a slower clocked 4 core CPU. Most games are still not optimized properly for 4 + cores and the E8500 will still come out on top, but generally any new games that are coming are being made to be better optimized for 4 + cores.

For general use the Q9400 will run quicker and personally I would take the Q9400 over the E8500.

This is a good review to give you an idea of the speed differences in general use and none gaming use:
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/939/4/

 

[Alex Townsend]

Just built a system but wondering if it can be better...

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum as I've just started looking for a place to race the awesome GTR Evo that I'm really enjoying at the moment.

Basically I have the feeling that the game isn't running as well as it could as I see the odd graphical glitch here and there with the odd flicker at the top of the screen
(although I've previously only ever been a console gamer so not used to gaming on PCs so that could be it too...)

Here is my setup that I bought recently to upgrade my old system that I'd had for over 7 years. I only bought the mainboard, cpu and memory as part of an upgrade pack on ebay as it sounded like it would be a lot quicker than my old PC but now having looked at some of these posts I'm thinking it could do with tweaking...

Nothing is overclocked on this system.

Corsair HX520 PSU
MSI K9N6PGM2 motherboard
AMD Phenom X4 9600 BE
4GB DDR2 PC2-6400 Memory at 400 MHz (not sure what make it is though as part of upgrade pack...)
Creative Xfi Soundcard
XFX HD Radeon 4890 1GB

I'm also running WinXP which, as I've read in this post, doesn't utitlize all the 4GB of RAM unless I use 'Shadowing' in the bios?

Could someone explain how I set this and if it would have any detrimental affects on the running of the PC in general?

Just wondering if the above is ok for running GTR Evo and RFactor or if I should upgrade any of the parts to make it run more solid?

 

[Damian Henderson]

Just wondering if the above is ok for running GTR Evo and RFactor or if I should upgrade any of the parts to make it run more solid?

It's actually overkill for those games These two games won't even touch the sides of the 4890 even at a high resolution, and your CPU will handle them without a glitch, so nothing to worry about, overall it's a nice PC

 

[Alex Townsend]

Oh cool!

Thanks for the reply. I'll stop looking into extra memory and cpus in that case... lol

 

[Eric. K]

I'm also running WinXP which, as I've read in this post, doesn't utitlize all the 4GB of RAM unless I use 'Shadowing' in the bios?

Could someone explain how I set this and if it would have any detrimental affects on the running of the PC in general?

I would say something about the CPU, but will stay quiet.

Are you going to use XP 32 or 64? If it is 64 you should have nothing to do.

 

[James Yates]

I would say something about the CPU, but will stay quiet.

Are you going to use XP 32 or 64? If it is 64 you should have nothing to do.

I wouldn't use XP 64bit, complete waste of time when Windows 7/Vista 64bit have much better compatibility, not to mention better performance in newer games. I'd really recommend that you switch over to Windows 7 64bit, you'll get better performance as it will be able to use all your ram and in addition is supported better by hardware/software.

Whatever OS you use, make sure its 64bit though as 32bit cannot use all the ram, 32bit can only use up to 4GB total which means it will use around 3GB of ram at the maximum.

 

[Damian Henderson]

+1 what James said, support for XP 64bit is dead.

Still If your just playing sims 3/4gb is plenty enough.

 

[Eric. K]

I wouldn't use XP 64bit, complete waste of time when Windows 7/Vista 64bit have much better compatibility, not to mention better performance in newer games. I'd really recommend that you switch over to Windows 7 64bit, you'll get better performance as it will be able to use all your ram and in addition is supported better by hardware/software.

Whatever OS you use, make sure its 64bit though as 32bit cannot use all the ram, 32bit can only use up to 4GB total which means it will use around 3GB of ram at the maximum.

Actually Vista's performance is much lower to XP (too many security tricks). Windows 7 is equal maybe slightly better to XP(I am running Windows 7 on my gaming PC). BUT it is a major pain to install and run no signed device drivers on Windows7. Doable, but painful, specially if you dont know what you are doing.

As for the memory, you are incorrect again. 32bit OS will use all 4 GB of memory (32 bits can address 2^32 which is exactly 4GB). XP had an issue with that (can be fixed in the Bios), Visa32 or Windows 7 32 does not (Microsoft fixed it).

I do agree on the XP 64 though

 

[James Yates]

As for the memory, you are incorrect again. 32bit OS will use all 4 GB of memory (32 bits can address 2^32 which is exactly 4GB). XP had an issue with that (can be fixed in the Bios), Visa32 or Windows 7 32 does not (Microsoft fixed it).

I do agree on the XP 64 though

32bit equals 4GB's of memory addresses. More than RAM uses memory addresses so OS will never have the full 4GB's available to it in a 32bit OS as RAM. Hence why it will only use around 3GB ram with the graphics card he has. Explained in detail here