PC Upgrading Discussion

[Mike Hill]

Having had a look at the two motherboards that you have put up there in the build specs, I have a question!

Each board seems to have only 2 memory card slots, restricting total ram to either 4 or 8GB. If I sold the processor and mobo that I currently have and wanted to use that cash towards increasing the mobo spec (for extra ram, and maybe even a second GPU in the future) are there any that you would recommend?

 

[Damian Henderson]

Ye, those are just boards for bit cheaper but some less features.

Here's some ones that cost a bit more thus getting more features:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/152175

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/149274

16gb max on both of them. You would need 4 x 4gb sticks though to get exactly that.

Amd:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/159073

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/152580

 

[Mike Hill]

ok, i'll look into those ones too. Thanks!

 

[Damian Henderson]

Here's some SLI / Crossfire mobo's

AMD / SLi

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/145886
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/144554

AMD ( Crossfire - Ati )

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/159000


Intel / Sli:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/142585

Am not to clued up with multi gpu mobo's tbh ,stay away from it and usually stick to single GPU's, but I know some of those are good. ( Not sure on the Sapphire Pure )

Intel build over AMD right now as they have the edge in both performance / price / + less power usage. Guys have had those E7*** chips at 4.0ghz + np.

 

[Dan Coldrick]

You can pick up a 4870 from Novatech with free delivery for £144.89-

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?SAP-4870

It's their own brand which normally turns out to be a Palit, I got their 4850 for £110 a few months ago which turned out to be a Palit.

 

[Douglas Aird]

I have a similar PC spec to you and every so often I have a look at what it would take to bring it up to a decent modern specification as I've reached the point where another new graphics isn't going to give a good return on my cash.

For a total of £351.85 (excluding postage) you can have a new socket AM3 motherboard, Phenom II processor, 4GB DDR2 Ram and 550W PSU. I've used Overclockers.co.uk for several components and a monitor and they provide a good service with decent prices.

Mobo

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-168-GIhttp://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-168-GI

Processor

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-238-AM

Memory

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-039-KS

PSU

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-111-AN&tool=3

A few points -

You would have to check that the Mobo will support your three SATA drives, but I think that it would.

The processor is a 3 core Phenom II to save a bit of cash over the 4 core version. I also think the speed of the chip would be better for (non-threaded) gaming compared to a slower 4 core version.

Memory is DDR2 as the DDR3 is more expensive and I don't belive it's worth the extra cash. However, the mobo supports both types.

I just picked a PSU that fitted in the overall cost of the build, but I don't know much about the Antec Basiq range.

I didn't include a graphics card as the 8600 will last you a bit longer, I think, and it's one of the easiest upgrades you can do once you get another bonus! :wink2:

Hope this helps. :good:

 

[Lee Downham]

I have not read all (EDIT: any of) the details here but "future proof" to me is a bit of a technical fallacy.

In the 15 or more years building my own systems I have always tried to convince myself that this one will be future proof, but it never really is :doh:
The core of a system always has to go, or ends up as another backup/server or as a wife's/kids machine.
(I even have the likes of a Pentium P90 processor kicking around in storage somewhere that might come in useful someday )

Don't get me wrong I have upgraded graphics cards on systems in the past, added RAM, taken graphics cards, soundcards and hdd´s from one system to another, but in general, you have to change the core (Mobo/CPU/RAM/PSU) of a system to get major upgrades ... and this is where the bulk of the cost is.

To start using 2 or 3 year old kit with a new core can be a bit like sticking a mini gearbox into an Aston Martin DBR9 ...

In the past I have spent more money on larger higher quality monitors, as those usually outlast a couple of systems (although with recent changes to TFT and flatscreens, I don't know how true this is any more).
Cases, speakers, keyboards mice and other periphery are pretty much the same deal.

My usual way to build a system to be "future proof" is to by a decent mobo, CPU and RAM that is not the latest thing, kind of 1 release back, 6 months old or slightly more maybe ... prices by this point have usually dropped enough to get a very decent machine that will last a good few years, before you start this cycle again - think about overclocking possibilities too when you do this. A good overclock is not that hard and can save you A LOT of money these days.

Similar 1 release back goes for with graphics cards, but I tend to go as current as possible with hdd's, them being the slowest piece of any machine.

Make sure there are no new interfaces or technologies about to hit the market which are going to make your kit redundant should you want or need to transfer them to another rig in the future.

GL with future proofing your life mate ... if you figure it out any better than this ... let me know the answer eh :highfive:

 

[Damian Henderson]

Talking of future proof, happy this main rig of mine has lasted me around 3 years. E4500 @ 3000mhz + 8800GTS. Still going very strong, just sent back GTS for upgrade to (Only due to fault! ), so should have another year or 2 + out this system yet! CPU upgrade to Q9550 next.

All in all, should be looking good for around 5 years on same system, think it did good future proof wise.

 

[Lee Downham]

Yeah ... depending on your needs and budget I would say that 3 to 5 years is a good target for "future proof" on a system that is aimed at fairly high end performance at the time of purchase.

The other alternative is to go for a very cheap 2 -3 year style budget system that is not so future proof, and just ditch it ... the long term costs will work out about the same (if not less)

I also did a lot of RL work on TCO (total cost of ownership) in the past ... for companies, the support aspect of a PC is the most expensive part, hardware and then software costs are the cheapest elements of a computer.

 

[Rob Goldthorpe]

Don't bother getting nVidia Graphics Card. Go for ATi! The image quality is far better than nVidia, plus the Drivers are better.

 

[Damian Henderson]

ignore read below

 

[Lee Downham]

Don't bother getting nVidia Graphics Card. Go for ATi! The image quality is far better than nVidia, plus the Drivers are better.

:eek: ... watch out for flame-age there dude :flame:

(EDIT: oops Damo just got in there before me ... EDIT2: ermmm no ... he didn't he reposted or something )

I would strongly suggest my favourite consulting answer of "it depends" is the best way to respond to this one.

otherwise you are into the realms of the old never ending arguments of:
Apple v MS (v Linux v Unix)
or
Intel v AMD
and maybe even
VHS v Betamax


GL mate - you're on your own now with this :quiet:

 

[Damian Henderson]

Don't bother getting nVidia Graphics Card. Go for ATi! The image quality is far better than nVidia, plus the Drivers are better.

Sorry?

The image quality is pretty much exactly the same and has been for the last 3 generations. Nvidia / ATi these days it's pretty much impossible to tell the difference in Image quality with the last 2-3 generations. Only the 7 series nvidia cards had lesser image quality then Ati cards, but that was years ago.

Driver's also, if you look around on hardware forums people have more trouble with ATi driver's these days then nVidia. But most of the time it's user error or finding the right driver version to work for you.

Nvidia still hold the crown on performance though, as they have for years, ATi have better prices though, but the competition is very close and there is lots of cards to chose from in any price range for us the consumers. You can't go wrong with either.

 

[Oliver Amos]

Exactly Damian. Nvidia drivers imo are better and are released about 20 times more regularly that ATI's giving better performance especially when new games hit the shelf.

 

[Ben Tusting]

boooooooooooooo

ATi all the way

Not to much Help really
There's always been a battle between ATi and Nvidia and in the end it all comes down to your budget(just as Damian said)

 

[Lee Downham]

ohhh dear :flame: ... as I pedicted ... its started ... this thread is about to go seriousl OT

(BTW: my real opinion ATI has had its moments of glory, but they are few and far between when compared to nVidia's glorious GPU reign )

 

[Mike Hill]

I have not read all (EDIT: any of) the details here but "future proof" to me is a bit of a technical fallacy.

In the 15 or more years building my own systems I have always tried to convince myself that this one will be future proof, but it never really is :doh:
The core of a system always has to go, or ends up as another backup/server or as a wife's/kids machine.
(I even have the likes of a Pentium P90 processor kicking around in storage somewhere that might come in useful someday )

Don't get me wrong I have upgraded graphics cards on systems in the past, added RAM, taken graphics cards, soundcards and hdd´s from one system to another, but in general, you have to change the core (Mobo/CPU/RAM/PSU) of a system to get major upgrades ... and this is where the bulk of the cost is.

To start using 2 or 3 year old kit with a new core can be a bit like sticking a mini gearbox into an Aston Martin DBR9 ...

In the past I have spent more money on larger higher quality monitors, as those usually outlast a couple of systems (although with recent changes to TFT and flatscreens, I don't know how true this is any more).
Cases, speakers, keyboards mice and other periphery are pretty much the same deal.

My usual way to build a system to be "future proof" is to by a decent mobo, CPU and RAM that is not the latest thing, kind of 1 release back, 6 months old or slightly more maybe ... prices by this point have usually dropped enough to get a very decent machine that will last a good few years, before you start this cycle again - think about overclocking possibilities too when you do this. A good overclock is not that hard and can save you A LOT of money these days.

Similar 1 release back goes for with graphics cards, but I tend to go as current as possible with hdd's, them being the slowest piece of any machine.

Make sure there are no new interfaces or technologies about to hit the market which are going to make your kit redundant should you want or need to transfer them to another rig in the future.

GL with future proofing your life mate ... if you figure it out any better than this ... let me know the answer eh :highfive:

all accepted. I am aware that you can never really future proof a setup, but the term was really used to express a need to get the maximum longevity out of the new system that I can.

regarding the impending ATi/Nvidia battle (that I really hope doesnt happen!) my preference will probably lie with ATi overall due to my previous experience with their cards. The only cards that I have had fail on me are Nvidia. That said, I have the 8800gt now that has been pretty reliable, but that was only bought as it was a relatively cheap option for me when replacing my last card. I couldnt afford the ATi option that I really wanted atr the time, and my local supplier only had the Nvidia card in stock on the day.

I am likely to go with the HD4870 cardfor the time being I think, so I need to match a decent processor/cpu config with this

 

[James Yates]

Sorry?

The image quality is pretty much exactly the same and has been for the last 3 generations. Nvidia / ATi these days it's pretty much impossible to tell the difference in Image quality with the last 2-3 generations. Only the 7 series nvidia cards had lesser image quality then Ati cards, but that was years ago.

Driver's also, if you look around on hardware forums people have more trouble with ATi driver's these days then nVidia. But most of the time it's user error or finding the right driver version to work for you.

Nvidia still hold the crown on performance though, as they have for years, ATi have better prices though, but the competition is very close and there is lots of cards to chose from in any price range for us the consumers. You can't go wrong with either.

QFT

Great post there Damien - I have seen a lot of problems with the newer ATI drivers whereas the newer nVidia drivers seem to be much better.

 

[Mike Hill]

ok, so looking into things so far (and already having to change the budget - factoring in the sale of the old processor and Mobo on Ebay!) the spec I am looking at is as follows:

AMD Phenom X4 9650 2.3GHz Socket AM2+ 2MB L3 Cache £116.07
Sapphire PURE CrossFireX PC-AM2RX780 770 Socket AM2+ 8 channel audio ATX Motherboard £79.42
OCZ 4GB (2X2gb) ddr2 1066MHz/PC2-8500 Platinum Memory CL5 £58.87
Sapphire HD 4830 1GB GDDR3 Dual DVI HDTV Out PCI-E Graphics Card £104.99
Antec TruePower Trio 650W PSU - With 3x 12v Rails and 120mm Fan £75.84

All totalling £435.19 (ouch! Already £90 over budget )

I thought I would probably need to beef up the PSU, so that it would be able to cope with things like a second GPU in the future - would this kind of size seem about right?

Anyway, any comments on the spec, or suggested improvements?

 

[Dave Stephenson]

:eek: ... watch out for flame-age there dude :flame:

(EDIT: oops Damo just got in there before me ... EDIT2: ermmm no ... he didn't he reposted or something )

I would strongly suggest my favourite consulting answer of "it depends" is the best way to respond to this one.

otherwise you are into the realms of the old never ending arguments of:
Apple v MS (v Linux v Unix)
or
Intel v AMD
and maybe even
VHS v Betamax


GL mate - you're on your own now with this :quiet:

i was just thinking that my linux install its better than 10 good things having a really good day....

I honestly believe that there's positives to both. It mainly depends on if you play really new top end games, and who your favourite developer gets his brown envolopes from.