When you have to rely on pay-drivers to get enough money in the team, instead of getting the best man for the job. A really good driver can make the difference.
Opinion: Are Williams Really That Bad??
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
shimon.ifraimov
De-activated on request
how are they so bad with a mercedes engine? same with force india this first race they were nowhere.
in 2014 they were quick and then it just went downhill from there.
in 2014 they were quick and then it just went downhill from there.
Lack of aero development.
Mr Latte
Premium
The driver does not matter THAT MUCH anymore in F1 compared to lets say the 80s but he still does matter to an extent. People forget that most drivers on the grid are very very good drivers, some of them are better than others but overall everyone on the grid is a fantastic race driver in some way. But not Stroll, Sirotkin and arguably Ericsson (had not had the chance to prove himself but well he has a reputation as a pay driver).
Stroll and Sirotkin are just not good enough to develop a car. No experience, just money backing them up. Sure as hell there are more capable drivers than these two: Wehrlein for example comes to my mind. Massa could have stayed there. They would have profited from his experience sorting out issues with the car. Wehrlein and Massa for example would be much much better driving and development wise but not money wise. After all money is what matters most nowadays in almost any sport. (not that it was ever cheap but things get ridiculous now)
Stroll and Sirotkin are just not good enough to develop a car. No experience, just money backing them up. Sure as hell there are more capable drivers than these two: Wehrlein for example comes to my mind. Massa could have stayed there. They would have profited from his experience sorting out issues with the car. Wehrlein and Massa for example would be much much better driving and development wise but not money wise. After all money is what matters most nowadays in almost any sport. (not that it was ever cheap but things get ridiculous now)
Ghoults
Lasse Luisu
You mean the teen that had f1 level budgets to engineer his f3 car? You mean the same teen who hired williams f1 team to make his f3 car faster? You mean the teen whose father bought him an f3 team? A championship winning team. You mean this is the same teenager that spent so much moneu developing the f3 car that it caused f3 series to change its rules so that other skilled teenagers like stroll could not spend 8 figure sums into aerodynamic development: https://www.fia.com/news/fia-pushes...ce-equity-fia-formula-3-european-championship.
But at least he used his monetary skills wisely to win in f3 when the grid was weaker than before or after. And when all teams came running to his door to plead him to drive their formula 1 cars he politely told them he had already purchased a seat at williams for 60 million.
I agree. He is natural talent with money! In a race car that future senna was about 0.8s slower than massa per lap. But now massa is gone so we can blame the car when stroll is slow.
Well that how it ends when you make your best driver a 3rd driver...
What is more even if Kubica isn't as fast as he once was (which is to be checked, because he already embarrassed 'race' drivers during official tests pre-Australia - but this could be because of the setups... maybe), he is well known to be a great in R&D department and being a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to setting up the cars. Thing is, I read recently that british or italian source (can't remember exactly) close to Williams claimed that Kubica was quite shocked that some of the team's engineers had limited knowledge and had to teach them about some aspects of the car setup... Of course that could be just a gossip but if that's true it means that Williams is in a real troubles...
In terms of cash you can always say that it's their own fault... Ferrari, Lotus, even McLaren thesedays were/are racing teams that starting procuding street cars just to get some cash. Nobody banned Williams from making similar move... And now they end up with two paydrivers just to keep the team alive...
What is more even if Kubica isn't as fast as he once was (which is to be checked, because he already embarrassed 'race' drivers during official tests pre-Australia - but this could be because of the setups... maybe), he is well known to be a great in R&D department and being a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to setting up the cars. Thing is, I read recently that british or italian source (can't remember exactly) close to Williams claimed that Kubica was quite shocked that some of the team's engineers had limited knowledge and had to teach them about some aspects of the car setup... Of course that could be just a gossip but if that's true it means that Williams is in a real troubles...
In terms of cash you can always say that it's their own fault... Ferrari, Lotus, even McLaren thesedays were/are racing teams that starting procuding street cars just to get some cash. Nobody banned Williams from making similar move... And now they end up with two paydrivers just to keep the team alive...
They need to refine the car, they're not that bad, drivers could be stronger.
Some sense!! AT LAST!!
I would say their car is bad, yes, but here the lack of talent of the drivers is showing.
Rememeber massa was constantly at least 7 tenths faster than stroll last year, now stroll was much faster than sirotkin.
I can believe he might have improved a little compared to 2017 but still not massa level, looking at the times, if hamilton, who's faster than massa, was at williams they'd make q3.
Ofc hamilton isn't the type of driver this team now deserves, but just saying, the car might actually not be that bad, in fact by the looks of it, could get more than mclaren with the same drivers as them, surely the engine plays a big part on that.
As for kubica, he was pretty similar to massa back when he was driving in f1, good but not top drivers, both of them, it's hard to believe he wouldn't have lost a few tenths in performance after being out of f1 this long and due to the injury, but I think it's a no brainer he would be faster than stroll, who's faster than sirotkin, they'd be several places better in qualifying which is of utmost importance with the number of overtakes I've seen in the last race.
Rememeber massa was constantly at least 7 tenths faster than stroll last year, now stroll was much faster than sirotkin.
I can believe he might have improved a little compared to 2017 but still not massa level, looking at the times, if hamilton, who's faster than massa, was at williams they'd make q3.
Ofc hamilton isn't the type of driver this team now deserves, but just saying, the car might actually not be that bad, in fact by the looks of it, could get more than mclaren with the same drivers as them, surely the engine plays a big part on that.
As for kubica, he was pretty similar to massa back when he was driving in f1, good but not top drivers, both of them, it's hard to believe he wouldn't have lost a few tenths in performance after being out of f1 this long and due to the injury, but I think it's a no brainer he would be faster than stroll, who's faster than sirotkin, they'd be several places better in qualifying which is of utmost importance with the number of overtakes I've seen in the last race.
Stroll is slow.
See the things in an other way.
Last year he was more than a second behind massa on some tracks, more than a second, with the same car, it is like...a whole universe.
imagine him with any of these young wolf in F1, Ocon , sainz, verstappen, Gasly, Leclerc, Vandoorne as teammate, it will be a disaster.
he is slow, for the job he does
faster than me/us/common people ?
yes
slower than the whole Formula 1 field ?
absolutly.
Guys like Erickson or Hartley are faster than Lance...
he doesn't have what it takes to succeed in Formula One, and his Father doesn't help him much to understand that its no need to try more honestly.
it is hard to let a dream go, but we have all seen the truth, Lance just have to face it , his dad the same.
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Williams' arrogance, much like McLaren', has now come full circle.
There used to be a time in F1, when both would dictate the terms of driver compensation...even 'low-balling' because they had the car everyone wanted to drive.
'Oh how the mighty have fallen.'
It's now a catch-22.
To gain sponsorship recognition, you need to be out front on the grid.
In Williams' case, they now require funding to stay in the game and can't afford a fast driver who doesn't bring lots of funding.
There used to be a time in F1, when both would dictate the terms of driver compensation...even 'low-balling' because they had the car everyone wanted to drive.
'Oh how the mighty have fallen.'
It's now a catch-22.
To gain sponsorship recognition, you need to be out front on the grid.
In Williams' case, they now require funding to stay in the game and can't afford a fast driver who doesn't bring lots of funding.
