New to Sim Racing - Looking for something to mimic my Spec Miata

[dudical26]

Hello Everyone,

I'm brand new to sim racing but have been racing spec miata for a couple years. I want to get a racing rig that will help me train in the off season. Looking for something that will have similar pedal feel and steering weight to my non power steering miata. I am planning to do iRacing.

I would love motion but I see it's very expensive. I'd rather get a cheaper chassis that I can replace with motion later and spend more on pedals, steering, and shifter. I want to try VR but I think I might be nauseous with it and might stick to normal screens. I don't want to have to replace the screens if I add a motion rig down the road.

Budget is $5,000

Thanks

 

[Terje Helle]

Definitely swap out those clubsport pedals for Heusinkveld, if there is one thing which was a major upgrade for me it was that. The HE pedals are just on another level of build quality and most importantly feel, the CSV3 with damper felt nothing like a real pedal, I hear it’s better with the brake performance kit but I wouldn’t bother and go straight to HE Pro/Sprint.

Have to disagree; the V3s with the brake kit, has almost the same feel as the HE pedals. It’s not as cool with V3s when you show your picture of your rig, but it’s really good with the brake kit installed.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Have to disagree; the V3s with the brake kit, has almost the same feel as the HE pedals. It’s not as cool with V3s when you show your picture of your rig, but it’s really good with the brake kit installed.

Have you used both?

As I said I never had the BPK but without, it wasn’t anywhere near as good even with the damper I had. Not only that build quality was a lot lower, I still hate with a passion the soft aluminium screws they use and the pedals had extra flex in them at the end of the range. With the stronger springs the throttle was still too soft and the clutch mechanism was hard to feel even driving in socks and the same with the rumble motors.

Then you have the ease of changing the feel of each pedal or just general adjustability which is limited on the CSPV3 and finally the customer support of Heusinkveld is unmatched. Honestly I would always recommend HE over Fanatec all day long.

Fanatec is great if you don’t mind being locked into their ecosystem and having the ability to connect everything up to the wheel base but there are much better options IMO across the board for a little bit more.

 

[Terje Helle]

Have you used both?

As I said I never had the BPK but without, it wasn’t anywhere near as good even with the damper I had. Not only that build quality was a lot lower, I still hate with a passion the soft aluminium screws they use and the pedals had extra flex in them at the end of the range. With the stronger springs the throttle was still too soft and the clutch mechanism was hard to feel even driving in socks and the same with the rumble motors.

Then you have the ease of changing the feel of each pedal or just general adjustability which is limited on the CSPV3 and finally the customer support of Heusinkveld is unmatched. Honestly I would always recommend HE over Fanatec all day long.

Fanatec is great if you don’t mind being locked into their ecosystem and having the ability to connect everything up to the wheel base but there are much better options IMO across the board for a little bit more.

Yes I have used both. Customer support to HE is great no doubt about it.
HE pedals are also more expensive, and in my opinion, isn’t worth the extra cost.

Also true, that HE pedals have stronger springs, and are easier to change the feel

But then again, I set up my pedals to my liking, and then I don’t touch them. So if you need to adjust your pedals all the time. HE is a good choice.

About “you have to plug them in to a Fanatec base” that’s not true, and you get more out of the pedals when you connect them to a USB.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Yes I have used both. Customer support to HE is great no doubt about it.
HE pedals are also more expensive, and in my opinion, isn’t worth the extra cost.

Also true, that HE pedals have stronger springs, and are easier to change the feel

But then again, I set up my pedals to my liking, and then I don’t touch them. So if you need to adjust your pedals all the time. HE is a good choice.

About “you have to plug them in to a Fanatec base” that’s not true, and you get more out of the pedals when you connect them to a USB.

Sorry what I meant was it’s a positive you can plug all Fanatec gear into the wheel base and have one USB cable to the PC. I currently have 10 separate ones for all my sim gear, which would be half that if I plugged the, pedals, shifter etc. into a Fanatec base.

Tried a powered USB hub but my PC USB’s suck and it kept disconnecting so I’ve got a lot of USB extensions!

 

[dudical26]

With the Valve Index - If I am just using for Sim Racing, do I need the controllers (full kit)
or can I just get headset and base station?

Definitely swap out those clubsport pedals for Heusinkveld, if there is one thing which was a major upgrade for me it was that. The HE pedals are just on another level of build quality and most importantly feel, the CSV3 with damper felt nothing like a real pedal, I hear it’s better with the brake performance kit but I wouldn’t bother and go straight to HE Pro/Sprint.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

With the Valve Index - If I am just using for Sim Racing, do I need the controllers (full kit)
or can I just get headset and base station?

Hmmm, I’m not 100% sure actually how it works for navigation as I use the rift and activate desktop mode from the oculus remote to navigate. I think you should just be able to load up from the desktop into VR mode and be good to go you just won’t be able to interact in the VR bit and load from only the headset.

In-game you definitely don’t need anything extra though.

 

[Terje Helle]

With the Valve Index - If I am just using for Sim Racing, do I need the controllers (full kit)
or can I just get headset and base station?

You don’t need the controllers, but if you buy a VR headset, you could try the other VR games, so it would be nice with some controllers. Buy som second hand controllers from Vive.

 

[Emery]

I'm in Northern NJ. What's the best way for me to find local Sim owners?

As a Spec Miata racer, surely some of your fellow club racers are also simracers. Find a regional facebook racing group and ask there... eventually you'll get a lead. Particularly on the east coast!

Out here living in the boonies on the west coast (I'm 90 miles from Portland and 180 miles from Seattle) the contacts are slim and usually they are people just emerging from their console habit, so entry level gear. I only know one person that has bought a direct drive wheel and is adding it to their 80-20 rig.

 

[RCHeliguy]

FYI, I had the Club Sport V3.0 with BPK and upgraded to the HE Sprints and I found a world of difference.

First of all the CS 3.0 Throttle even with the stiffest spring was at best set up for socks. It didn't have nearly enough pressure for me. It was way to easy to floor the car and harder to modulate the throttle as you are unwinding the wheel.

The Clutch on the CS 3.0 felt like nothing to me once again with the firmest springs, there was just not enough effort to remotely feel like a real clutch.

The CS 3.0 brake with one green and one red gel from the BPK was decent, but still not as easy to modulate as the HE brake. The CS 3.0 load cell takes too little effort to max out. Fanatec says it's a 90 kg load cell to which I say "BS"! It is far too easy at least for me to max out. So if you brake with socks only, it might be fine.

Where the differences really showed up were in the configuration. I shortened the Throttle travel, adjusted the pedal angle forward a couple notches for all the pedals. Increased the Clutch pressure to feel much more like a real clutch. You can increase the pedal height and rotate the pedals forward and backwards.

I'm running my Brake at between 57 and 65 kg of force depending on the car in iRacing and I use their software to apply curves to my brake at times.

This won't matter as much for this use case, but for driving GT3 on up I like to slide my brake and clutch to the side since I don't need the clutch. The brake is further to the left in these cars and it feels better when left foot braking.

 

[dudical26]

FYI, I had the Club Sport V3.0 with BPK and upgraded to the HE Sprints and I found a world of difference.

First of all the CS 3.0 Throttle even with the stiffest spring was at best set up for socks. It didn't have nearly enough pressure for me. It was way to easy to floor the car and harder to modulate the throttle as you are unwinding the wheel.

The Clutch on the CS 3.0 felt like nothing to me once again with the firmest springs, there was just not enough effort to remotely feel like a real clutch.

The CS 3.0 brake with one green and one red gel from the BPK was decent, but still not as easy to modulate as the HE brake. The CS 3.0 load cell takes too little effort to max out. Fanatec says it's a 90 kg load cell to which I say "BS"! It is far too easy at least for me to max out. So if you brake with socks only, it might be fine.

Where the differences really showed up were in the configuration. I shortened the Throttle travel, adjusted the pedal angle forward a couple notches for all the pedals. Increased the Clutch pressure to feel much more like a real clutch. You can increase the pedal height and rotate the pedals forward and backwards.

I'm running my Brake at between 57 and 65 kg of force depending on the car in iRacing and I use their software to apply curves to my brake at times.

This won't matter as much for this use case, but for driving GT3 on up I like to slide my brake and clutch to the side since I don't need the clutch. The brake is further to the left in these cars and it feels better when left foot braking.View attachment 341431

nice looking setup, thanks for the detailed feedback. I'm not so concerned about max brake pressure since I'm trying to emulate a street car based setup. With that in mind do you still think the HE makes a noticeable difference? I'd likely be running both pedal sets in their lower brake pressure configs since the miata pedal is vacuum assisted and doesn't require a huge amount of pressure.

Unrelated to brakes - can you tell me more about your bass transducer setup. Pretty clever mount to the pedal box, that looks nice. What about that transducer mounted sideways, what is the point of that? Where else do you have them on your rig?

 

[RCHeliguy]

It isn't about max pressure so much as quality of modulation. I used to own an MX-5 but it has been a couple decades, so I don't remember exactly how it used to feel. I've heard many people absolutely crow about the HE over the Fanatec pedals, and some people don't seem sensitized as much. I could say that same thing about direct drive wheels. I like mine, but I didn't think it was an absolute necessity. Other people scream from the hilltops how great they are.

The transducers give me a variety of effects. The most useful is wheel slip. With my transducers I can feel when the front or rear wheels are starting to slide. They also give me an engine rpm, road bumps etc.. The transducer mounted on it's side gives me some engine rpm in my stick shift and puts a few bumps into the steering.

I have a whole thread on my rig build/journey. Maybe you will get an idea or two from it. I went all over the place and it shows me starting out with a full Fanatec control set which replaced entirely by the end. So you can see how I mounted all the fanatec controls and then how I mounted everything I replaced them with.

Some of my controls especially my h pattern shifter are a bit pricey for the added value they provide. I'm not trying to talk you into buying everything I did.

Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

Table of Contents: https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/mobile-driving-flying-cockpit-with-motion-and-tactile-build.165289/post-3489238 It was suggested that I created a dedicated thread for this build so it wouldn't be buried in another thread and because it might be of use to others. I had...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[Braken99]

Have you looked at shipping costs for the rig and seat? Shipping on large items can be shocking. You're probably up to $ 8K + taxes. I was able to get around a sim rig myself and bought a Civic Si car seat which is very comfortable and mounted it to a office guest chair frame. I've tried $40K sim rigs with direct drive and Huesenfeld pedals. I'm not a fan of the motion at all (way over priced imo and didn't like it tbh) although pedals are a priority. You sound very new to this and if you want to stay close to your $5K budget I'm not sure direct drive is a good place to start or Heusenfeld pedals. I'd go with Fanatec V2.5 base with V3 pedals which I bought and very happy with. I'd trim some of the other items for now like bass shakers. I use my Yamaha stereo with Bic America F12 12" sub for rumble and love it. I've spent around $5K USD with triples and oculus rift. With your budget, I'd allocate a larger portion to the PC, something I learned the hard way on. I'd spend around $ 2K min on the PC with I7 7700K CPU or better, GTX1080ti, 16GB ram, ssd 500GB. I recommend monitors with displayport inputs (to avoid adaptors for 144Hz that are over $100) and capable of 144HZ and then setup up for 120Hz sweet spot.

Cost	Item
Wheel Base	$1,500	Podium DD2 - V2.5
Wheel	$500	Podium R300 - clubsport
Rig	$860	Sim Lab P1-X
Shifter Mount	$75	Sim Lab Side Mount
Keyboard Mount	$75	Sim Lab Keyboard Mount
Wheel Mount	$85	Fanatec Podium Mount
Monitor Mount	$265	Triple Monitor Mount - I have a $30 solution if you need it
Seat	$300	eBay Halo Seat- Link? Make sure its comfy. Id go to a wreckers and get a car seat.
Pedals	$360	Clubsport V3 yes
Shifter	$250	Clubsport V1.5 yes
Oculus	$400	Oculus Rift S yes (although I prefer triples)
Shaker	$569	Back/Seat/Pedal Combo - Bic America 12" $200 https://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-...0015A8Y5M/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Computer	$1,000	$ 2000
Monitors	$780	Asus 27" Curved - curved not required. Once its setup you cant tell - get 144Hz even if its TN instead of IPS
Total	$7,019

I'm not trying to start all out war with the iracing guys but I also recommend Assetto Corsa over iracing, its just simply better overall IMO. If you don't have discord, I recommend getting it and using it with a headset. You can find leagues in discord which is very good.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Emery]

I'm not trying to start all out war with the iracing guys but I also recommend Assetto Corsa over iracing, its just simply better overall IMO.

Except if he's interested in training on current USA tracks specifically for Spec Miata, then iRacing really is the only choice.

 

[dudical26]

I bought the computer already, I spent $1,150 for machine w/ i7-9700K, 3.6GHz, 1TB+256GB SSD, 16GB, RTX2080S - I bought it refurbished otherwise I'd agree this would cost $2k

 

[Botmeister]

I have Heusinkveld Sprints. Spec miata, that's with manual clutch cars? If so, the Sprints come with a good clutch pedal with good biting point for release. Haven't tried the Fanatec V3's clutch, I did try the V2's though and that was a great difference from the Heusinkveld 's.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The V3 clutch even with the strongest spring is just mush. I could never feel any bite point or engagement. I just slammed it to the floor. The HE feels much more like a real clutch.

 

[Keith_G]

If I can chime in I would agree that the HE pedals are a definite upgrade over the Fanatec ( I have both)and they were certainly worth the extra money to me. Durability and feel are the main differences but adjustability is also a big difference. I was constantly fixing the fanatec pedals but hardly ever touch the HE ones except for cleaning and lube.
I have both a Fanatec DD2 and a V2.5 and admit the upgrade was not really necessary although there is a bit more fidelity. The R300 wheel is nice though I find the 300mm diameter to be a bit strange. It is a good compromise between 320mm (standard GT wheel) and 270mm (formula wheels). I would think that the best bet is to find a Miata wheel and fit it to the Podium Hub.

As for triples vs VR I have and use both but there is nothing like VR for immersion and I can race for hours with it without feeling discomfort. Triples are nice but much more expensive! They require a stand, a very good graphics card, three expensive screens and a lot of setup. I found a good 43" TV screen to work pretty darn good for a lot less money. (If you can afford to race a car then money probably isn't your biggest issue )
I don't do Iracing but make sure they have good triple support which I assume they do.

I had the Rift CV2 and moved up to the RiftS and it is a big upgrade and works very well. My son has the Vive Index and it is nice but not sure there is a big difference. The good thing for racing with the RiftS is that you don't need any outside sensors and it includes the controllers. The speakers built into the headset also are very nice and easy to use so you don't have to use a headset when wearing the VR.

I agree SimLab is the best and although it cost a bit to ship it to the US it is worth it. I use the Team Redline model and it works very well. Picture attached below:

Glad you are part of the Sim Racing community now and good luck with practice and on the track.
BTW - I am retired now and whatever I spend on this hobby is a lot less than I spent on track days!

 

[dudical26]

Keith - Thanks for the post, appreciate the perspective.
Regarding Sim Labs Chassis - do you run GT1 or P1X? It seems like the features are identical just the P1X is about twice as thick.

I've adjusted my config slightly based on everyone's feedback.

	Cost	Item
Wheel & Base	$850​	V2.5 & BMW 320mm
Pedals	$720​	Heusinkveld Sprint
Shifter	$250​	Clubsport V1.5
Rig	$860​	SL P1-X
Shifter Mount	$75​	SL Side Mount
Keyboard Mount	$75​	SL Keyboard Mount
Monitor Mount	$265​	Triple Monitor Mount
Seat	$400​	NRG
Shaker	$569​	Back/Seat/Pedal Combo
Oculus	$400​	Oculus Rift S
Computer	$1,150​	i7-9700 & GTX2080S
Monitors - 1x	$260​	Asus 27" Curved
Total	$5,874​

I figure this config gets me racing and leaves me ready to add triples if I need and also a chassis that can support motion if I add that down the road. The only thing I may want to upgrade could be a direct drive wheel but I'll probably want handbrake and some other stuff before I get there. Seem like this should put me in a pretty good place.

If I can chime in...k days!

 

[Keith_G]

@dudical26 It looks like what you have listed is pretty darn good. I have the TR1 (Team Redline) Chassis which is a variant of the GT1. I really like it and it is less expensive but only by a few hundred dollars but it is smaller and more compact which works for me even though i have an entire room to myself. However, if you are looking to do motion down the line then you will most likely need the P1X to make that work. If you haven't already seen this you tube video it shows how D Box motion works on the P1X :

-WHEEL choice - I might consider changing my wheel choice if possible. The V2.5 is a great base but the BMW wheel is a bit heavy for my taste. If you can get the base with the Porsche 918 RSR wheel I think it is a much better wheel. Of course you may love BMW and hate Porsche so whatever works for you

The only other thing I might consider if I was you is going with a 32' screen rather than a 27". I just changed to some MSI 32" curved screens with 2560x1440 pixels and they are really nice and give a better feel for being in the car for me. They are about $399 on Newegg but there are plenty of choices so again, whatever works.

Those are what is in the picture. You could also just go with a larger curved screen and forget the triples altogether if you want.
Sorry if I just made it harder but whichever you go with it will be a great experience for you. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[Emery]

The only other thing I might consider if I was you is going with a 32' screen rather than a 27".

Seconded. Larger screen area is so important, especially with a single screen.