My thoughts about the forum and the community

[BhZ]

Lately i've been particularly active on this forum and i took part to many discussions. One in particular got my attention. It was about the fact that fast drivers don't help rookies during practice. I think it's true, but at the same time i think many rookies don't even ask. I raced a lot recently on RD and i think i remember just one question in something like 8 races: "what wings are you guys running?". That was the only question that someone asked during practice. This got me thinking about the community and the forum and i noticed that the majority of the posts here on RD are about peripheral issues, graphical issues, news, random stuff. Now, in a simracing forum i'd expect more questions about cars, tracks, driving tecnique...Asking question in a 30 minutes practice just before the race won't make you a better driver for the simple reason that if you are not already a great driver, 30 minutes are barely enough to stay on track and possibly find good braking points. What will make you a better driver is to ask question on the forum, get an answer to it and apply in an offline session what you just learned until it becomes natural.
Everyone is free to do whatever he wants and race every night with a different car in a different track, but my advice is to take at least half of the days you'd race to just choose a car and a track and practice. Push the car, be curious about where is the limit of it. That is the only way to actually improve. Racing every day doesn't give you the time to get confidence with a car or a track, so you will improve, but at a much slower speed and you won't have time to work on the setup, because it's useless to work on the setup if you still have to find the limit of the car.
So my request is as follows: Ask about anything related to a car or track here on the forum, even if it's a stupid question, there are people here ready to help.
I also have a suggestion for the RD staff: In order to improve the quality of racing on RD, it would be cool in my opinion to have nights where instead of racing, you guys set up a server with a car and a track (possibly a combo that will be used in the next RD event) where people can sign up (like in a normal race) and practice for a couple of hours. So you have some sort of "practice event" where people willing to improve can learn more and where hopefully some of the fast guys (which usually practice a lot) will come as well and help.
Just to be sure, since english is not my first language, i want to specify that this is just my opinion and advice to try to improve the quality of driving. Let me know what are your thoughts about it and if you have other ideas that could make this forum a better place.

 

[Dimis]

well after reading through most of the thread. I must say i don't see arrogance or uber driver mentality in Bhz's postings, and i feel a lot of the post went a little off topic.
i rather see somebody with a passion about racing and willing to help other people to get better as a complete driver. the words might seem harsh to read at times but that is unavoidable in chat with text only to interpreted.
i don't see those words as harsh, more as direct. Without the flowers and perfume.
Clearly there are different types of people who like to join the races and that's ok.
that's what rd is for.

As i have read it Bhz isn't scoffing people off for not investing the time and effort to be faster, but more as trying to tell, if you want to be a better (not faster) racer (not driver) you have to invest in practice, lapping without end and banging your head to the wall. Cause most of us aren't born with a golden helmet attached.

And i agree with that. Also about the sharing setups, it's not that Bhz doesn't want to help. he only says, outside rookie class he likes to switch from driver to racer. and a racer wants to win, so he wants to focus on that target. i call that passion.
nothing wrong with giving people setups to get them around the track a little faster, also nothing wrong to state if they want to improve themselves the shared setup isn't going to help much.

I have been playing racing games for more than twenty years now and to my friends i'm fast, so fast that after a while they didn't want to race me anymore (they just wanted to have fun). I consider myself as a slow racer. And looking at the numbers, that is true. i'm clearly not the fastest. kinda slow actually. So there i've spend about ten years playing alone trying out all the setups i could find (some worked some didn't) without improving/growing as a racer.
so last week i decided to join rd and have look around.
after sharing my struggle about not getting faster in the forums, different people reacted and came up with some clear and direct input. It seemed i had forgotten about a few basic things and was blaming the car more than my own capabilities.

with the help i received i went back on track, and even after only 4 days i find myself achieving the same lap-times with the default setup as i did with the pre-tuned downloaded ones.
So i am a happy lad o'course.
I don't see any problems in trying to give some advice and help to people iff they want to improve as long as you/we can understand where somebody is coming from and what they want to achieve.
so i will be happy to find a "room" where people meet and discuss the "correct order of battle" whilst in the rookie class happily sharing that info to try and give the whole pack a genuine race experience.
It will take some time before i can give the faster/better/more competitive racers something back, cause after all these years i consider myself a rookie again. and i'm good with that.
have a great day and hopefully see you on track

 

[Brandon Wright]

Very well said @Dimis .

 

[RustyDriver00]

Pro am league

Also with so many teams developing a strong reputation in the RDLMS perhaps some of them may be keen to run their own driver academies internally, these appear to be proving successful on a few different communities of late.

 

[BhZ]

Pro am league

Also with so many teams developing a strong reputation in the RDLMS perhaps some of them may be keen to run their own driver academies internally, these appear to be proving successful on a few different communities of late.

I was actually thinking about finding a team for the next year. The only problem is that i have no experience on Rf2 at all. I'd need some sort of coach for a week or so to get started and know everything i need to know to race in that category, then it's all about practice and that's not a problem.

 

[PhilS13]

When you are really fast and share a setup, out of 100 people :

93 are slow and don't REALLY want to put some effort in improving the driving. Your setup will either make them marginally faster or even slower. No worries.

4 are slow but really want to improve and put effort into it. Sometimes all they need is the confirmation that the driving is the issue and not the setup. By giving them a good one they can focus on the driving. I'm a firm believer you need to be a top driver BEFORE you start to learn how to make sets. No worries for you in the short term but you may be unleashing the aliens of tomorrow. Still fine imo.

3 are quick but lazy, not smart enough or don't have time. They might grab your set and beat you with it. That maybe sucks but hey they are basically telling you your driving can be improved which is good no?

I really don't see much negative in stone cold setup sharing but I see a lot of problems in trying to teach setups to someone who is driving 3 seconds off what the car is capable of. Drive good first. Give him fish eat one day , teach him fishing eat for life absolutely does not apply here.

 

[Mr Deap]

@PhilS13 I don't know about this one. Open wheeler & GT cars are easy to drive.

There's a possibility that his setup is so good that 93 or them will beat his time, while the 7 one may be a tad bit slower.

Who know...

 

[RasmusP]

Great posts, I think we need a new category here?
To the eat fish wordplay: well at first you should give them a nice fish to show that it's good food

 

[PhilS13]

@PhilS13 I don't know about this one. Open wheeler & GT cars are easy to drive.

There's a possibility that his setup is so good that 93 or them will beat his time, while the 7 one may be a tad bit slower.

Who know...

I see you are still in denial. Send me a PM sometime if you ever want to hop into the real world. Seriously.

 

[Mr Deap]

@PhilS13 Thanks for the proposition, but I'm not a premium member for a reason.

I know it need consistent lap time of 1.5sec always faster each lap & a lot of playtime on on a normal track. Claiming a player to get better when he is 4-5 sec is obviously a setup issue. Race cars are so forgiving that you can't be that much off pace.

Proposing someone to get better in that situation is confusing, fallacious & deceptive.

 

[BhZ]

That maybe sucks but hey they are basically telling you your driving can be improved which is good no?

Yes and no. They might tell me my driving sucks, but i put effort in that setup and losing a race to someone who didn't suck a lot, not the best idea.

I really don't see much negative in stone cold setup sharing but I see a lot of problems in trying to teach setups to someone who is driving 3 seconds off what the car is capable of. Drive good first. Give him fish eat one day , teach him fishing eat for life absolutely does not apply here.

Other than risking to lose the race, nothing bad can happen. But at the same time giving a setup that is perfect and easy to drive won't help anyway. You will never learn to handle a car than is not that straight forward. So instead of asking for setups, maybe ask for driving advice, am i wrong? I agree with you on the fact that setups are useless if you can't control the car, so focus on that instead of setups.

 

[RasmusP]

@PhilS13 Thanks for the proposition, but I'm not a premium member for a reason.

I know it need consistent lap time of 1.5sec always faster each lap & a lot of playtime on on a normal track. Claiming a player to get better when he is 4-5 sec is obviously a setup issue. Race cars are so forgiving that you can't be that much off pace.

Proposing someone to get better in that situation is confusing, fallacious & deceptive.

The friendly events are using default setup for all. Since a few weeks ago we can play with fuel and pressure. We share that so it's the same for everyone again.
We often see a few seconds difference between us and when you watch the replays you can see the difference clear as day. Line, steering, braking, throttle. It's only driving and no setup involved!

 

[BhZ]

@PhilS13 Thanks for the proposition, but I'm not a premium member for a reason.

I know it need consistent lap time of 1.5sec always faster each lap & a lot of playtime on on a normal track. Claiming a player to get better when he is 4-5 sec is obviously a setup issue. Race cars are so forgiving that you can't be that much off pace.

Proposing someone to get better in that situation is confusing, fallacious & deceptive.

Wrong. 4-5 seconds off the pace is a driving style issue. A setup will never make you 5 seconds faster (maybe at the nordschleife). Claiming a car is easy to drive is also relative...are you sure you are pushing it to the limit?
To be able to judge a driver or a car you must be able to push it to the limit and so far, i've seen maybe 4 people in 4 years on AC able to do so.
You also say that GT cars are too forgiving...when i watch the blancpain i don't see many cars spinning or going off track without a contact with another car, so it seems they are as forgiving as in real life. If you don't believe me, watch the GTR GT3 around monza (there the video on the NISMO channel) and you'll notice how forgiving they are, even at the end of the stint.

 

[BhZ]

The friendly events are using default setup for all. Since a few weeks ago we can play with fuel and pressure. We share that so it's the same for everyone again.
We often see a few seconds difference between us and when you watch the replays you can see the difference clear as day. Line, steering, braking, throttle. It's only driving and no setup involved!

The only thing i don't like about the rookie/friendly events is the car. An FWD with TC and ABS is not the best to improve once you reach a medium-low level. You will almost never have oversteer, you won't lock the wheels and you don't have to worry about traction because of TC. If i were an admin, i'd probably choose the tatuus because it's a more complete car and allow you to cover every necessity in terms of driving skills.

 

[RasmusP]

Wrong. 4-5 seconds off the pace is a driving style issue. A setup will never make you 5 seconds faster (maybe at the nordschleife). Claiming a car is easy to drive is also relative...are you sure you are pushing it to the limit?

100% agree! But may I add it's important that we are talking about AC default setups. They are quite good! A complete "bad" setup compared to a very good setup would give you 4-5 secs. But as said: not in AC

The only thing i don't like about the rookie/friendly events is the car. An FWD with TC and ABS is not the best to improve once you reach a medium-low level. You will almost never have oversteer, you won't lock the wheels and you don't have to worry about traction because of TC. If i were an admin, i'd probably choose the tatuus because it's a more complete car and allow you to cover every necessity in terms of driving skills.

That's a bit right, and a bit "not really". The MX5 cup is quite oversteery in fast long turns. If you steer too much it will start to slide a tiny bit. For the last used Abarth it's true what you say. But it was snapping on the brake even with ABS and it really tought me how to brake well and how to use ALL of the track. The new Audi TT Cup is better! FWD, yes, but used as a Rookie car in real life we just can't discuss about using it for the same purpose here, can't we?

Addition to that: they are not longer called "Rookie events" for a reason! For me Wednesday is the toughest day in my week and I really enjoy to just sign up and hit the throttle without even thinking about oversteering. If it's no enjoyment for you: sign up on one of the other days

 

[Rami]

Send me a PM sometime if you ever want to hop into the real world.

@PhilS13 Thanks for the proposition, but I'm not a premium member for a reason.

Hmmm... to see what would happen, I'd pay Mr Deap's premium anytime

 

[PhilS13]

Yo instead of asking for setups, maybe ask for driving advice, am i wrong?

Yes. But as you can see, for some(probably for a lot), even in this very page, there is a blockage. They are convinced it's setup so good luck seeing them asking for driving advice. Giving them the setup is a very effective way to unclog the pipe. Learning to drive unperfect cars should be the least of your worries if you are 4 seconds off in a perfect car. Nearly matching the best, on their own setup is truly the most time effective path someone can take. If they can do that, the rest will follow.

 

[BhZ]

That's a bit right, and a bit "not really". The MX5 cup is quite oversteery in fast long turns. If you steer too much it will start to slide a tiny bit. For the last used Abarth it's true what you say. But it was snapping on the brake even with ABS and it really tought me how to brake well and how to use ALL of the track. The new Audi TT Cup is better! FWD, yes, but used as a Rookie car in real life we just can't discuss about using it for the same purpose here, can't we?

What i meant is that being an FWD with TC and ABS it doesn't allow you learn everything. You don't have to control the throttle because it has tc and it can be just turned on/off. That car is on rails. I forgot about the mx5, that's even better than the tatuus since it's kinder when oversteering. You can't really compare real life to this. In real life they can't really choose a car, they get what they give to them. My point is: take a car without aids, not much power and possibly RWD. Imho that's the best combination for a rookie car. The audi can be more entertaining because it's easier, but at the end of the day it's a car that is different from anything else on AC.

 

[BhZ]

Yes. But as you can see, for some(probably for a lot), even in this very page, there is a blockage. They are convinced it's setup so good luck seeing them asking for driving advice. Giving them the setup is a very effective way to unclog the pipe. Learning to drive unperfect cars should be the least of your worries if you are 4 seconds off in a perfect car. Nearly matching the best, on their own setup is truly the most time effective path someone can take. If they can do that, the rest will follow.

But...isn't a setup slightly personal? If they learn to drive a perfect car, how will they drive a car that is not perfect to work on the setup? I'm not going against you, i just want to see what's your answer cause the topic interest me.

 

[RasmusP]

What i meant is that being an FWD with TC and ABS it doesn't allow you learn everything. You don't have to control the throttle because it has tc and it can be just turned on/off. That car is on rails. I forgot about the mx5, that's even better than the tatuus since it's kinder when oversteering. You can't really compare real life to this. In real life they can't really choose a car, they get what they give to them. My point is: take a car without aids, not much power and possibly RWD. Imho that's the best combination for a rookie car. The audi can be more entertaining because it's easier, but at the end of the day it's a car that is different from anything else on AC.

True words! Maybe we need some addition to the friendly events called "challenge accepted events"
Just joking, I agree with you. It's hard to please everyone... The friday events are the closest. An addition with the tatuus would be very nice!

 

[Mr Deap]

Wrong. 4-5 seconds off the pace is a driving style issue. A setup will never make you 5 seconds faster (maybe at the nordschleife). Claiming a car is easy to drive is also relative...are you sure you are pushing it to the limit?
To be able to judge a driver or a car you must be able to push it to the limit and so far, i've seen maybe 4 people in 4 years on AC able to do so.
You also say that GT cars are too forgiving...when i watch the blancpain i don't see many cars spinning or going off track without a contact with another car, so it seems they are as forgiving as in real life. If you don't believe me, watch the GTR GT3 around monza (there the video on the NISMO channel) and you'll notice how forgiving they are, even at the end of the stint.

Actually it's both, but being 4~5sec is a setup issue. Race cars are so easy to drive that the disparity of time should be much lower.

Watching professional driver on TV make it look easy. I wouldn't use it as a reference.

Since I mainly focus my time on setup only, on some cars & track combos I actually shave off more than 3 sec by modifying the setup. My denial come from experience with the game.