AMS2 MINI Challenge @ Red Bull Ring - Friday 31 March 2023

Dave Stephenson · Mar 30, 2023

CK1249 said:
Hypothetical question: As this is a short-track and in case Nick and I should represent again the tail end of the field, what is the official stance on blue-flags? F1 (let the leaders go past within three corners, if you are a lap back) or IndyCar (full Eddie Irivine on Ayrton Senna in Suzuka 93 action)? Being lapped might be the only race-action I am going to see ;-)

Blue flags should be observed usually but don't move out of the way, stick to your own normal lines and let the faster car initiate the move then don't make it hard for them.

There are a number of safe was you can do it, the easiest being on a straight you can lift a little to give them a bit of a speed advantage but don't do it in the traction zone where they will be expecting you to be on throttle.

If they are alongside or pulled out to initiate the pass as you approach a corner, hold the normal line but lift a little earlier and brake a little earlier. That will let you take the normal line through the corner while ensuring enough speed advantage for the other driver to get through safely.

The most important thing really is to be predictable, pulling off line at the last moment or being excessively slower/faster in critical corner phases just makes it hard for the passing care to read you and leads to accidents.

Bram Hengeveld · Mar 30, 2023

We have not officially defined the blue flag rules in the club rulebook. Dont think we should either as we are all casual fun drivers here. But what Dave wrote works for me and for sure everybody else. Don't panic, give some room on the straights and of course communicate on Discord and we are all fine.

OR!! .... drum role .... more drums...

Be present at the first minute of the practice, tell me or any other driver in the Discord that you need help with your speed and we'll do a private-10-minutes-we-will-get-you-up-to-speed-course-for-free and don't get lapped. With the all the great simracing knowledge we have amongst us being too slow is really optional

We'll speed you up!

Dont be afraid to ask for help as that is what we are there for. Not just for bad jokes

HorneyMINI · Mar 30, 2023

But the bad jokes are top tier.

Bram Hengeveld · Mar 30, 2023

HorneyMINI said:
But the bad jokes are top tier.

And that doesn't even include the beer

F2020 · Mar 30, 2023

Bram Hengeveld said:
We have not officially defined the blue flag rules in the club rulebook. Dont think we should either as we are all casual fun drivers here. But what Dave wrote works for me and for sure everybody else. Don't panic, give some room on the straights and of course communicate on Discord and we are all fine.

OR!! .... drum role .... more drums...

Be present at the first minute of the practice, tell me or any other driver in the Discord that you need help with your speed and we'll do a private-10-minutes-we-will-get-you-up-to-speed-course-for-free and don't get lapped. With the all the great simracing knowledge we have amongst us being too slow is really optional We'll speed you up!

Dont be afraid to ask for help as that is what we are there for. Not just for bad jokes

Hey Bram,

I know you mentioned this to me the other week, which was really nice of you.

I wondered if this week either yourself or Dave could help me haha as you know i am virtually always last, plus lapped (at least once!).

If i get there bang on time tomorrow would you be able to help please?

Andy

Bram Hengeveld · Mar 30, 2023

Yes sir, just let me know and we'll get to work. All you have to do is bring your own MINI Cooper JCW.

F2020 · Mar 30, 2023

Bram Hengeveld said:
Yes sir, just let me know and we'll get to work. All you have to do is bring your own MINI Cooper JCW.

haha i have one on my hard drive just right for this

Ill be there dead on time for practice then tomorrow mate, if that works for you guys?

CK1249 · Mar 30, 2023

Hi all,

thanks for all the in-depth response. Thanks a lot also for the offer for giving a hands-on training. I actually know the A1-Ring quite well, dating back to Grand Prix 4 days. I am just slow in general.

But I gladly take up the kind offer. I intend to be on time or a bit early.

Cheers, Chris

F2020 · Mar 30, 2023

Chris, I doubt you’re as bad as me mate so rest easy haha

James Skinner · Mar 31, 2023

50% In please - expecting some new pedals today and my rig might still be in pieces at 8pm, but would love to join again if I can!

Eric S · Mar 31, 2023

James Skinner said:
50% In please - expecting some new pedals today and my rig might still be in pieces at 8pm, but would love to join again if I can!

You only need the throttle, right?

Roman1987 · Mar 31, 2023

Please count me in, hope I can make it in time

Bram Hengeveld · Mar 31, 2023

James Skinner said:
expecting some new pedals today

Nice, congrats! What are you getting?

Des Bain · Mar 31, 2023

Sorry folks but gonna need to withdraw from tonight's proceedings as I have some virus pish going on..... Sinus screwed and head been bumping for the last 2 days..... Great car and track combo....total bummer!

Bram Hengeveld · Mar 31, 2023

Des Bain said:
Sorry folks but gonna need to withdraw from tonight's proceedings as I have some virus pish going on..... Sinus screwed and head been bumping for the last 2 days..... Great car and track combo....total bummer!

So sorry to hear that. Sounds painful mate. Take care and heal up and we'll see you soon again. Got a track recommendation for next week that we can drive in your honor?

Stefan Hiller · Mar 31, 2023

First things first, sign me up as maybe, hope I'll make it again this evening

And second @F2020 @CK1249 I tried the combo now and here's a lap I did with the inputs:

Also some gerneral driving tips I often tell the new guys from my old Formula Student Team
-> Check where your eyes are. Many know the words that you should look where you wanna go, but try to look even further. Before even braking point starts your focus can be on the corner apex and before you are at the apex you can look already to the exit. Your brain will remember the information in its short term memory and you'll automatically go there. It even goes further, at a hairpin you can just peak around the edge shortly to look where the end of the corner is and then go back to the apex. Your brain will automatically figure out a smooth line.
Try it out, in the beginnung it will feel weird and you'll have to remind yourself to do it, but after a while it should help a lot.
Here are some focus examples:

-> Next up with these fwd cars you have to try to rotate the car into the corner via trail braking. NEVER use more than 90° steering angle in a "normal" corner, no tyre in the world can handle those slip angles. Once you approach the corner entry let off a bit the brakes and let it rotate towards the apex. Then start pulling it to the apex with the throttle and lock diff, just to the point the front tyres start slipping. If you feel them loose grip do not turn in more, just take a slight lift. If it understeers a bit just feed a bit of left food braking in to rotate it back.
As an example I made a video on how the Mini is rotating and in the end how it looks like if you apply the throttle at the right time:

To stop it from geeting too loose on downshifts just blip a bit.
As last spam also a video from my feet in a real fwd car if someones is interested or has a fetish to see how often it helps to use the left foot to rotate the car

F2020 · Mar 31, 2023

@Stefan Hiller hey mate, you legend! i will view these after work.

Thanks.

Ole Marius Myrvold · Mar 31, 2023

Stefan Hiller said:
Also some gerneral driving tips I often tell the new guys from my old Formula Student Team
-> Check where your eyes are. Many know the words that you should look where you wanna go, but try to look even further. Before even braking point starts your focus can be on the corner apex and before you are at the apex you can look already to the exit. Your brain will remember the information in its short term memory and you'll automatically go there. It even goes further, at a hairpin you can just peak around the edge shortly to look where the end of the corner is and then go back to the apex. Your brain will automatically figure out a smooth line.
Try it out, in the beginnung it will feel weird and you'll have to remind yourself to do it, but after a while it should help a lot.
Here are some focus examples:

I'm going to add to this. Slight background on me: Started karting when I was 10 (earliest you could in Norway at that time). Did manage to get 2nd in the Junior Festival in Norway (due to unique rules in Norway, youngsters cannot get championships etc. So it was a sort of an unofficial national championship for the different classes where kids could race). Done some low level rallycross (known as bilcross/folkrace/jokkis - or... Wreckfest in real life, but crashing is not allowed), won some qualifiers, gotten to the A-Final, just missed the podium. Also done some 6hr races at Mantorp Park, where my claim to fame is that I had a better laptime than Felix Rosenqvist, and that the commentators meant someone should pay to get me into DTM.

Point with all this? Many years ago I went to visit a friend who at that time worked at iZone Driver Performance at Silverstone. I "obviously" got a session in a single seater to try it out, and he would do some very light coaching.
Back then they actually used rFactor. The original, standard one!

I got to try at Oulton Park, did some laps. First time I had tried something else than a Logitech wheel and pedals as well. So it was all a bit new to me.
I did what I felt was reasonably well. I know I'm not an alien in simracing, but also know that I can be competetive.
Regardless, he said he would now use a laser-pen, and my job was to try and drive as fast as I could, while looking at where he pointed his laser.
That was about the same places as @Stefan Hiller have made his dots on the pictures. Not all in the same order IIRC, but it's very very similar.
I ended up almost 2 seconds quicker, before spinning out.

Of course, some of those 2 seconds was due to me getting more familiar with the setup, car and track, but it really did work. For someone who felt (and feel) like he has a tiny bit of talent, it was quite special to see how much quicker I could get with that little help.

Never really been able to test it out at home, as it isn't the easiest or most intuitive to do with only one, flat, monitor

Main point: I am just backing up what Stefan have said/shown