Lower Lap Time Advice @ Spa

[3GeForce]

Below is a video of the best time I can achieve at Spa in a Maserati Gran Turismo MC GT4. It's a low 2:37. When I did an online race at Spa with the same car the average drivers were around 2:33 and the fast drivers were 2:28 - 2:30.

I have no idea where I can shave 4 seconds off just to be average. Let alone 6 - 7 seconds to be competitive. Any help would be appreciated!

Traction Control: Off
Stability Control: 45%
ABS: On

Fuel: 50 liters

Left Front and Left Rear: 19 PSI.
Right Front and Right Rear: 20 PSI.

Height LR and Height RR: 0 (Front 83 mm Rear 96 mm)

 

[JoelK]

the ride height (make the front higher, this will also result in a higher mid corner speed).

This makes car more stable and you said it's too stable already ?!

 

[Shadowoff]

When you say "lower toe" do you mean negative values as displayed in the right-side "live values" window in AC setup? Meaning you want the front of the wheels further together than the rear of those wheels?

Sorry, I see "positive toe" and "negative toe" and "toe in" and "toe out" used interchangeably all the time.

What do you set the differential to? The default of 30% under power seems awfully low for a car with such a long nose, also compared to most other similar cars.

This makes car more stable and you said it's too stable already ?!

You need to see it relative... a higher overall car will give you more stability, true, but if you have a higher front than rear it will end up in less understeer and more corner speed but also making the car slippery

 

[JoelK]

but if you have a higher front than rear it will end up in less understeer and more corner speed but also making the car slippery

Can you explain further why ? 'Cause having positive rake (lower front - higher rear) has been giving me a more slippery car which is more prone to rotate. Somebody else correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[JoelK]

*deleted*

 

[Shadowoff]

Can you explain further why ? 'Cause having positive rake (lower front - higher rear) has been giving me a more slippery car which is more prone to rotate. Somebody else correct me if i'm wrong.

I cant explain it as thats my personal experience in over 750 hours of hotlaping in AC Just try something like 50/70 ride height once and then 70/50. For me the car with 70/50 definetly feels more slippery, less understeery and faster through the corners

 

[BhZ]

I cant explain it as thats my personal experience in over 750 hours of hotlaping in AC Just try something like 50/70 ride height once and then 70/50. For me the car with 70/50 definetly feels more slippery, less understeery and faster through the corners

This is quite impossible. Not even gran turismo physics would be so wrong. An higher ride height to the rear will make the car more oversteery (or less understeery) while an higher ride height to the front will make the car understeery, the aero will work badly, if not work at all.

 

[dud]

On a car with a wing the wing angle (relative to the air) changes with the front-to-back height. Lower front means steeper wing.

 

[Kek700]

Done aero tests with the above, nose up rear down , nose down rear up, both in small increments

Nose up rear down lower overall downforce, and higher Cd numbers.

Nose down rear up lower Cd, higher total down force. There is a small range were the sweet spot exists

But the differences were not night and day.

I can only assume the 70/50 suits your driving style.

 

[BhZ]

Done aero tests with the above, nose up rear down , nose down rear up, both in small increments

Nose up rear down lower overall downforce, and higher Cd numbers.

Nose down rear up lower Cd, higher total down force. There is a small range were the sweet spot exists

But the differences were not night and day.

I can only assume the 70/50 suits your driving style.

The differences are massive, in particular if the diffuser stalls. If his driving style suits a wrong setup, then he has to change completely his driving style. Afaik there is no race car with that kind of rake and there's a reason for it. Apart from aero, a lower car to the rear will be very understeery and in some cases will lose acceleration performance (if the car is too low on the rear).
He also says more slippery, which is quite vague. Slippery under acceleration? Or while turning? Or while braking?

 

[Kek700]

I absolutely agree with you, but I can only quote what I found on one car I tested and as I do
not know the programmed physics that applied to that particular car I can only state what I found.

Maybe if I had carried out a test on another gt3 car I may have come to a different set of conclusions.

 

[dud]

I started setting up from scratch. I can now get under 2:30 with some reliability.

Aero is a bit draggy, on the other hand it is a lot more stable in the rear.

I should also upload that green skin. My records show that I am a lot faster since I am using that skin.

 

[dud]

How do you folks deal with the clutch? The autoclutch in Kunos' MC12 kicks in very hard, and it keeps rpm so low that there isn't enough torque out of the slow turns.

Using the clutch pedal is better, however now the pedal has the full clutch engagement in the middle. Better than the autoclutch but not good. I have the Thrustmaster T500 RS pedals, and I cannot find any form of curve adjustment either in Thurstmaster's nor Kunos' settings.

 

[Full_Ninja]

I drive with the Oculus Rift. I make sure I can see the shift lights before I leave the pits. I autocross and do track days in real life and I've been taught to look past the corners and let my hands follow my eyes. So I don't think I could drive in a sim using monitors because I often have to lean forward to see around a corner.

I'll take your advice and practice in the mx5 so I can follow your video. Thanks!

Wait were you racing in VR when you made that video? If yes I couldn't tell because you kept looking straight ahead. You need to turn your head and look into the apex of the turn. This will make you faster. This lecture covers what I'm talking about https://driver61.com/uni/vision/
Since you're in VR you can apply what he's teaching. I have found all of his lectures helpful.

 

[Mr Deap]

Indeed driver61 is very useful god send, especially for the setup part... Although it's utter complete garbage when it come for driving for sim racing.

 

[BhZ]

Indeed driver61 is very useful god send, especially for the setup part... Although it's utter complete garbage when it come for driving for sim racing.

Here we go again. You keep saying that life and simracing are completely different and the way we should drive in sims is unnatural, yet you weirdly can't present any proof of it and you have always shower that you are not that great as a driver. As for religions and political beliefs, you can believe whatever you want, but stop trying to convince us that you are the only one that got it right while we all got it wrong.

 

[dud]

How do you folks deal with Eau Rouge and Raidillo?

I mostly go in like a ski racer and then use the moment of most load on the suspension on the bottom to brake very hard.

That kind of works, with great deceleration, however there is a lack of control and precision. Not only do minimal errors in brake point mess up the entire combination, it is also very hard to estimate the best brake point in the first place when you vary aero.

If you put on more aero you can easily toss to much energy on the bottom, lose some more while hechting up the hill, and then see the lap time evaporate after you start the long straight with too slow initial speed.

Any technique that allow for a bit more control? To arrive at the top at a more predictable speed, maybe sacrificing how soon you get there?

 

[Mr Deap]

Here we go again. You keep saying that life and simracing are completely different and the way we should drive in sims is unnatural, yet you weirdly can't present any proof of it and you have always shower that you are not that great as a driver. As for religions and political beliefs, you can believe whatever you want, but stop trying to convince us that you are the only one that got it right while we all got it wrong.

Yes, it's proven on post #35 in the very same thread.

 

[Tberg]

Yes, it's proven on post #35 in the very same thread.

Stop yourself. Rasmus took that corner wrong, and obviously weren't at full throttle when he should.
About anything driver61 teaches is applicable to simracing depending on car, it's not his fault not everyone can get it right and maximize.

 

[RasmusP]

Stop yourself. Rasmus took that corner wrong, and obviously weren't at full throttle when he should.
About anything driver61 is appliable to simracing depending on car, it's not his fault not everyone can get it right and maximize.

Edit: misunderstood something...
Yep, Magione isn't a track where I'm good

 

[Tberg]

How do you folks deal with Eau Rouge and Raidillo?

I mostly go in like a ski racer and then use the moment of most load on the suspension on the bottom to brake very hard.

That kind of works, with great deceleration, however there is a lack of control and precision. Not only do minimal errors in brake point mess up the entire combination, it is also very hard to estimate the best brake point in the first place when you vary aero.

If you put on more aero you can easily toss to much energy on the bottom, lose some more while hechting up the hill, and then see the lap time evaporate after you start the long straight with too slow initial speed.

Any technique that allow for a bit more control? To arrive at the top at a more predictable speed, maybe sacrificing how soon you get there?

For ER, I haven't given much thought about braking hard at all. Infact you shouldn't, with all the available grip. The important part is La Source setup and the line: go out right to the wall before ER, so that the car can be lined up afterwards on the left kerb almost straight. This is to avoid the car weightshift from one side to the other, upsetting it. Then usually a small tap on the brake (depends on car, downforce, grip etc) to initiate the turn, aim for the right kerb and straighten up but not too soon, then smoothly floor it asap though watching out for the top left kink at Raidillon that can spin you out, especially in high torque cars without TC.
Setting up for ER and top speed at Kemmel begins with taking La Source right. As always, look ahead and use the width of the road, a too narrow straight line will ruin the topspeed at kemmel.