Lewis Hamilton - One of the Greats?

[Terry Rock]

Lewis Hamilton is not just amongst the 'greats'...he is the greatest British driver who ever sat in an F1 car.
I usually laugh when I hear people saying he only won so much because he was in a top car.
It is utter hog-wash.
He came into F1 in 2007 against one of the best drivers, one who by that time had two WDC titles and was fully 'seasoned'. Had McLaren not left him out on rooted tires in China, he would have won the championship on his debut year.
That's no small feat against a guy like Alonso.
Since that time he has absolutely wrung the neck of every car he's had to the max performance it is capable of.
Some folks may not like his style off track or have jealousy issues, but there is no doubt about his level of talent.

 

[jpalesi]

One of the greats of the past decade ? No question.
One of the greats ever ? Meh, he's not near the top.

To have an idea of the achievements, you have to look at who comes second.
2014 and 2015, Hamilton only had his team mate to beat, and while Rosberg is a massively underrated good driver, those 2 titles don't make him one of the greats. He even lost to his supposedly average team mate in 2016.
Then in 2017 and 2018, Ferrari got better, the main challenger was Vettel. And during those years, Vettel has shown how weak he is, he can thank Newey and lady luck for his 4 titles. This year especially, Vettel lost more the title than Hamilton won it.

Prost without Senna (and without a cheating Ecclestone...), it's 7 titles. Senna without Prost, it's 5 titles in 6 years. Those two had to fight each other (even in the same team), and Mansell, and Piquet. Competition was tough.

 

[snyperal]

He's the boss. I want to see him in a ferrari.

 

[apex11]

Lewis Hamilton is not just amongst the 'greats'...he is the greatest British driver who ever sat in an F1 car.
I usually laugh when I hear people saying he only won so much because he was in a top car.
It is utter hog-wash.
He came into F1 in 2007 against one of the best drivers, one who by that time had two WDC titles and was fully 'seasoned'. Had McLaren not left him out on rooted tires in China, he would have won the championship on his debut year.
That's no small feat against a guy like Alonso.
Since that time he has absolutely wrung the neck of every car he's had to the max performance it is capable of.
Some folks may not like his style off track or have jealousy issues, but there is no doubt about his level of talent.

He came into F1 in one of the best cars.... He has never been in a bad F1 car.
He has only ever been in the best since he was 12 years old.....
AND he was Ron's pet project. Ron and Alonso did not gel well.... I think Ron favored Lewis that season and Alonso has hinted at that....but whatever.
If we look at Lewis and Alonso over the years we can be clear can we not that Alonso is better than both Nico and Bottas?

Alonso in the Merc even if Lewis was marginally better, could of been 2nd WDC for the last few seasons...instead he was in the McLaren unable to dent top 5....

How do you think Lewis would of got on had he stayed with McLaren??
Honestly please give me your answer....

 

[apex11]

Bottas thanks to the Merc has a pretty good CV now for results, as does Nico.....that tells you all you need to know...

Lewis is a 'great' in an era where it doesn't matter much unless you are a Lewis fan.
He SHOULD be WDC.... that is the thing, it was expected, it isn't a shock, he did not do anything amazing to change the obvious.... a seasoned F1 driver who is possibly one of the best won in the best car....
So what?
Where is the surprise?

 

[Fat-Alfie]

If F1 is so predictable to you, why do you even bother watching?

 

[KittX]

Well there is a psychological aspect that kicks in with some people, it's like that period of Superman (or batman?) comics magazines few decades ago when he had no weaknesses and was winning everyone all the time, and people got bored of that and didn't buy them anymore, because well he just wins, he's not struggling with anything, so why bother, people can't relate. But people can relate with Alonso, because he seems more "human" - makes weird strategic decisions, which lead to "bad luck". Also some people just avoid picking good material to build the stuff from, because "it's too easy" or "everyone can do that" and try to prove something by using sh** materials all the time.
Lewis is a great long-term strategy thinker AND driver, and while there can be drivers that are talented and can outperform him in one aspect, they aren't long-term thinkers enough. Like Jordan Peterson says: "Life is not the game, even the game is not the game. Game is a set of games, and to be good at game means to play each one the way that you're capable to play next one well".
There are many more minimalist composers than Steve Reich or Phillip Glass, which musically are more conceptual or deeper, but only Reich and Glass seemed to be in that sweet spot of good concept + delivery to people that is simple enough, almost like "pop classical" that made them greatest minimalist composers.

 

[Zuffenhausen Weiss]

Undeniably

Haters are running out of "reasons" he isn't.

Unfortunately, winners attract haters and glory hunters and there are two types of LH fans, the glory hunters who worshipped him since he started to win with Mercedes and the minorities who watched his career from his karting and single-seaters and believed in him throughout.

 

[Zuffenhausen Weiss]

No doubt he deserve to be one of the greats but I always ask his fan this, where were they in 2012 and before, 2007 and 2000?

 

[apex11]

If F1 is so predictable to you, why do you even bother watching?

I mainly don't, I record the ones on channel 4 and watch 2 laps then fast forward....dull as dish water for the most part...

Now MotoGP, that is where the real greats are.....

 

[Shadowoff]

Not really, definetly one of the best but clearly not the best. A lot of World Champions had been able to show their skill in slower cars (Vettel winning at Monza in a Toro Rosso, Schuhmacher taken the title in a Benetton, Senna showing his driving skills in a Toleman at wet Monaco) while Hamilton had only been able to win in a superior/top car. Except for this year every title since 2014 was done in a clearly faster car which is why I count this as his second and not fifth title

 

[Turk]

No doubt he deserve to be one of the greats but I always ask his fan this, where were they in 2012 and before, 2007 and 2000?

I watch Motorsport and don't fawn over any particular participant. No grown adult should fawn over anyone else whether they're good at driving or singing songs.

But the fact remains Hamilton is notorious for extracting the maximum his car can do on any given day. That's all any F1 driver can really do. We can argue about whether he's better or worse than previous drivers, or whether he would win in a lesser car (he probably wouldn't, but being on the right team is all part of being a champion) , but on the day he did what needed to be done to win and as such deserves to be champion.

Mercedes won the building the best F1 car competition, Hamilton won the driving the car around the track fastest competition. They deserve their titles.

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

He came into F1 in one of the best cars.... He has never been in a bad F1 car.
He has only ever been in the best since he was 12 years old.....
AND he was Ron's pet project. Ron and Alonso did not gel well.... I think Ron favored Lewis that season and Alonso has hinted at that....but whatever.
If we look at Lewis and Alonso over the years we can be clear can we not that Alonso is better than both Nico and Bottas?

Alonso in the Merc even if Lewis was marginally better, could of been 2nd WDC for the last few seasons...instead he was in the McLaren unable to dent top 5....

How do you think Lewis would of got on had he stayed with McLaren??
Honestly please give me your answer....

McLaren in 2009 was a pretty bad car, it finished about same in points as Ferrari F60 which was horseshit. Only reason McLaren and Ferrari won a race that year was because of Lewis and Kimi.

And if we go back to McLaren in 2007 it may be that Ron favoured Hamilton at some point of the season, but Alonso came to McLaren as number one driver with reigning champion status. The fact that Hamilton was on Alonso's pace since race one proves to me that he has the skill, not just in a Mercedes.

 

[apex11]

Lewis Hamilton is not just amongst the 'greats'...he is the greatest British driver who ever sat in an F1 car.

Some folks may not like his style off track or have jealousy issues, but there is no doubt about his level of talent.

This is the point though, his level of talent is unquestionable...but that talent he has, in a McLaren would be nowhere near the podium let alone WDC and race wins etc.... so it is about more than talent....a lot more.
By the time someone is in F1 they have done karting since 6, GP2 etc etc....maybe testing F1 cars also....
They all should have some talent for driving a car around a track by then anyway...
Give them a better car than someone and they can beat them.... Bottas beats better drivers than him every race in the Merc...

 

[apex11]

I watch Motorsport and don't fawn over any particular participant. No grown adult should fawn over anyone else whether they're good at driving or singing songs.

But the fact remains Hamilton is notorious for extracting the maximum his car can do on any given day. That's all any F1 driver can really do. We can argue about whether he's better or worse than previous drivers, or whether he would win in a lesser car (he probably wouldn't, but being on the right team is all part of being a champion) , but on the day he did what needed to be done to win and as such deserves to be champion.

Mercedes won the building the best F1 car competition, Hamilton won the driving the car around the track fastest competition. They deserve their titles.

Extracting the maximum out of s Merc gets you pole...extracting the maximum out of say a McLaren gets you 16th.... for example...
Button once said his best most committed lap of Spa ever was in a McLaren and he was 18th and failed to get into Q2.....so no one noticed...

 

[KittX]

This is the point though, his level of talent is unquestionable...but that talent he has, in a McLaren would be nowhere near the podium let alone WDC and race wins etc.... .

So your point is the to be the greatest, to go from point A to B if there is a rock between them, one should choose to go straight into the rock and try the damn best to go straight through the rock, instead of going around the rock?

 

[apex11]

So your point is the to be the greatest, to go from point A to B if there is a rock between them, one should choose to go straight into the rock and try the damn best to go straight through the rock, instead of going around the rock?

Are you on crack?
My point is he may be the greatest in F1 context....but not a great sportsman in the wider scale...

 

[Fil140]

.

 

[Fil140]

Extracting the maximum out of s Merc gets you pole...extracting the maximum out of say a McLaren gets you 16th.... for example...
Button once said his best most committed lap of Spa ever was in a McLaren and he was 18th and failed to get into Q2.....so no one noticed...

They did mate.

 

[KittX]

Are you on crack?
My point is he may be the greatest in F1 context....but not a great sportsman in the wider scale...

Ok, so to be the greatest pianist of all time one should avoid demand for the best tuned and sounding instrument, and deliberately go perform on broken-out of tune ones? I thought wider scale is exactly a good long-term strategy planning...