Tracks Landsbergrallye WP1 Track release
- Thread starter MrSilva
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- assetto corsa rallye track
The track already suffers from poor optimization, all the new FX stuff will for sure kill it!+1000, love this stage, but need improvement, grassFX, rainFX... and 3D trees.
Please talented modders needed.
Optimisation is one thing for sure, but old graphics engines that dont optimise automatically is quite a cost as well. People don't know most of the time that creating track is one thing - optimising is another cost - especially when a track is not finished and full optimisation has not been done. Another thing is also that people who are keen on driving in sims should also focus on getting proper hardware. I have seen some people complaining that some tracks dont work good on their 10 year old laptops. I mean come, maybe we should optimise them to work on their washing machines too?
Uggghh... not here tooOptimisation is one thing for sure, but old graphics engines that dont optimise automatically is quite a cost as well. People don't know most of the time that creating track is one thing - optimising is another cost - especially when a track is not finished and full optimisation has not been done. Another thing is also that people who are keen on driving in sims should also focus on getting proper hardware. I have seen some people complaining that some tracks dont work good on their 10 year old laptops. I mean come, maybe we should optimise them to work on their washing machines too?
Im confused... is this a free mod or a paid product? You keep talking about costs... and "horses dont work for free". But either way............................... It's not a matter of additional labor costs, or flat-out telling people to go and buy new hardware. You build a model efficiently using documented pipelines, its as simple as that. Or abandon the "old graphics engine" and move on to something else... can't keep blaming AC while still using it for your commercial purposes.
I dont know what you do for living but even a free mod needs financing you know? Either by the time spent by the modder who makes it or by some other sponsors like banners advertising etc. We are not millionaires to be able to just build for fun and fund the tracks for people. At the moment it is a free mod, because it was created by one of the guys who worked in SIM TRAXX and it was his aerial laserscanned "passion/learning" project so his cost was the time spent for learning and testing some options. But as usually it goes at some point he didn't have more time, because he had to WORK for real money and as most modders - they hit the wall of getting super small donations or none at all, and at that point they stop developing not because they don't want, but because they need to do something else for living. Now to the conclusion - I mentioned that we will try to update the track and improve it if there is enough people interested in it and if they will fund at least some costs that are needed to improve the track and finish it properly. And about Your building models efficiently then You are not thinking as we do - we want to create tracks to be most accurate and usable for years for many graphics engines - especially the newer ones - but the idea overally is to export same tracks to many sims so people can use them in all sims they want including Assetto Corsa, rFactor 2, Beamng.Drive and many more to come in the future. If we build the tracks strictly for old graphic engines then there will be more work to convert them for any future sims. Remember whats "efficient" now will be too low standard in the future (as it is with the conversions from Richard Burns Rally - these were built efficiently years ago and now they look too bad and its pointless to fix them - so we try to find the sweet spot in the middle by laserscanning them with highest accuracy possible so they can be used in the future for many years only with some smaller improvements. Anyway too much to talk in posts. And some guys will still have problem understanding the whole idea of SIM TRAXX. We dont go trolling other peoples projects, but some people do -thinking they know best and not seeing the bigger picture. Most modders will keep doing tracks for AC and not move to other newer sims, most will stop making tracks after seeing they spent hundreds,thousands of hours and got almost nothing in return, SIM TRAXX will continue to move forward making tracks for many sims - the old ones and new ones - so we are trying to find a universal way to create tracks so they can be exported to many sims. Of course the process is ongoing and sometimes we fail to get it the best way, but we are getting there.
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PS! dont teach about a documented PIPELINE for Assetto Corsa, because we know it, as nobody spent so many hours creating hundreds of tracks for Assetto Corsa as we did. Another way is if we used the PIPELINE in full - it takes too much time in many cases for optimisation pipeline or the pipeline for quality needs to be upgraded. This PIPELINE INCLUDES modelling the same objects 3 or even 4 times for LOD especially if it goes to buildings (look at the Highlands track for example)- thats the cost of optimisation in older engines where in newer it is usually decimated automatically! The pipeline also cuts down on quality of textures just so worse PC can drive on it. Even with everything on ULTRA most of the Kunos tracks or done by the "best modders" use pretty low quality detail textures or overally reuse same texture for ground, or cut down on necessary polygons making the tirewalls look like cubes, or terrain being too flatted or rounded just because of optimisation- that was fine years ago but now they should be improved. We use higher resolution textures, use 8K orthophoto textures, use more polygons/triangles to make objects looking more naturally or terrain being more realistic in terms of shape etc. because we are not cracking down on accuracy or quality. We even use a substance painter for some best works. In some of our better funded projects like Magnolia or Bucharest we actually use also multi-level LOD for objects. Especially for track barriers, tirewalls (You will probably not find better tirewalls or barriers in AC than the ones created by SIM TRAXX), city lanterns traffic lights and different poles which are done in 2 levels - low poly and high poly - with some low poly using transparent/alpha textures for details or cables. We know the pipeline very well, another thing is knowing and another is using it in full - when there is little budget or simply where the pipeline is basically outdated. Anyway I can elaborate more - but best way will be to see Our Best Quality and Optimisation- that will only happen with PROPER financing and also newest engines - until that we are maneuvering between quality/optimisation/amount of tracks/cost. For many people it is enough - especially if they get most tracks for free, or they just care about the accuracy because they use the tracks for virtual training between the real drives on real tracks. You know we have real rally drivers, Formula 3 drivers, kart racers, also some amateur drivers who compete on real events just for fun -> that use our tracks right? Oh You probably don't know, because You are so focused on finding something that sticks out so You can troll about or not even care to find out what is SIM TRAXX. It is still like an iceberg - the biggest part is not visible for the public, because for years public didn't support the modders - only now its becoming to change so we can assume the accuracy and quality of public tracks will be steadily growing.
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PS2. Look at the screens below. Have You ever seen something so detailed in Assetto Corsa? Including Substance Painter and for example street signs that have special reflective patterns like in real life?
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End of lecture. If anyone wants to elaborate more on SIM TRAXX - be my guest - write to me in private.
SIM TRAXX Konrad
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This is a ridiculous argument, no one is asking about any funding, financing, whatever simtraxx is up to.
You are getting 2 worlds mixed up here... one is modding for enjoyment, the other is a business. I really dont care what simtraxx intentions are in either world, but dont come claiming the guys creating tracks for free are losing time and money.
I've worked on 10 projects... 4 scratch-built passion projects, 3 collaboration projects and 3 paid/commissioned ones. The 7 "free" projects were out of pure enjoyment and fun, I see it as a hobby and wouldn't change a thing, would do it all over again.
And you keep claiming AC is outdated and its pipeline is not "future proof", another ridiculous comment. Well-built projects in AC can brought forward to any new "next-gen" game if they are to allow modding. Texture size is irrelevant... theres no need for a track to have 8K textures and clog up VRAM, and if there was a need? guess what... AI upscaling nowadays does wonders. Funny when you say, you have 8K textures and a million triangle meshes for new sims. What new sims are you modding for?
Your screenshots aren't impressive, all that has been done. And I have seen better tirewalls, mine. Mine look better, are UVed better, no treads on the inside like yours show... and I guarantee it has way less tris than yours.
Good luck with your business, but dont mess with the modding community.
It doesn't matter how many tris your models are, or how many pixels are in your textures, if you don't use them effectively.
The work you (and your team) put out is sub par. None of your arguments mean anything when your work is objectively eclipsed by other people. It's not the engine's fault, it's yours.
As far as financing, you haven't shown that you can produce top tier content, nor that you can even finish a project. If money is what you're looking for, how about finishing something before moving on? You've got dozens/hundreds/whatever of tracks on your page. Instead of "investing" (or financing, to use your incorrect term) your time in starting so many things, finish one to a half decent standard and then you'll probably find more people willing to open their wallets. You're either a business or you're doing a hobby. You're trying to play both sides, and failing at both.
Either do it because you enjoy it, or make it a business. If you do it for enjoyment, do whatever you want. If you're making a business, then operate like a business. You can't throw out hundreds of subpar offerings and then complain no one is giving you money. People pay for things that are worth paying for, not the other way around.
Not discussing with an ignorant who doesn't know that most of the PUBLIC tracks on our website are projects done 10-12 years ago and not even created by SIM TRAXX. We only adapted them to Assetto Corsa with funds and time we got. They are all free of charge. That ignorant doesn't even know that many of them were mostly created for training not for visual "wan*ing" in the first place. They were also created for a different game engine Richard Burns Rally so texturing and modelling wise they are different from "pipeline" for AC. Also it was very hard to convert those projects to AC and it took alot of time, because only few people in the world have tools to export from Richard Burns Rally and it takes alot of manual job to prepare these tracks to AC. It needs manual separation of road and terrain meshes for example - done on hundreds of kilometers. People who drove these tracks in Richard Burns Rally are very happy these were converted and improved with AC shaders. We also had to fix old trees normals and draw masks for multilayer shaders. Hundreds if not thousands of hours of work out of passion to bring these very old CLASSIC tracks to AC. Some other tracks and racing circuits that were made by us were made with a very limited budget for people who drive on these tracks and need them for training, so we focused first on accuracy and didn't care so much about the visuals again, because they only paid few hundred EUR or optimisation, because these people have good computers. We released these counting that more people will be interested in these local tracks and add some funds so we can improve them. Now if You read post before You would know that SIM TRAXX is like an iceberg. The biggest projects come from private sources again. We release whatever we can for free for the public, but mostly we can release low budget projects, because when clients pay proper money they want usually exclusiveness. Even BRASOV was first made for a real romanian rally driver who competes on these roads and he paid only 3000 EUR for a track of 15km - but at some point I decided to put our simtraxx money and add additional 8000 EUR to much improve the track. However I cannot be taking more loans or using more company money for tracks that are not widely demanded and therefore are not paying back.
PS. it seems your work is subpar - how many tracks did You make? on RD oh 0? What are Your mods? Hm a livery, a car? for many years You made so many mods that I have to use fingers to count them
PS.2 pff, I guess You didn't make a research at all. Check BRASOV track for example if You say we didn't finish public projects. Check Autobahn Country Club circuit (USA), Check M1 Concourse Champion Speedway (USA) - created for the owners of the real track and having an official license so the real drivers can train on them. These are only the ones I was able to release to public, because the owners allowed us to. Not event talking about tracks we cant speak of due to NDA.
You also probably don't know that we made a track for AUDI and Real Madrid event where the whole Real Madrid team was driving on simulators and millions of people were watching live stream on facebook and youtube. Or You probably don't know that we made 200km laserscanned (1cm scan accuracy) Bucharest for the romanian government - a big contract, where we hired almost 70 people and created it in just over 3 months including setting up AI traffic with working traffic lights and traffic rules, fully populated with cars - that system was specially developed for us by Ilja from Content Manager. No You wouldn't know about it, because You are seem to behave just like an NPC talking whatever some other ignorants talk without knowing the full picture.
PS.3. Yes we are doing it from passion, but passion needs funding from public if public wants to get proper tracks. We are not some regular modder who can spend hundreds or thousands of hours working on 1 project for years like the Jonnrrr guy and checking tires from inside. We love tracks, but we also have our deadlines. We are also not filthy rippers and we paid some money for all the original authors of the tracks we converted even if they were not perfect. Not like SRipP who simply ripped the whole track from another game and then adapted to AC or other modders who simply rip forza.
PS.4.thanks for Your advices, not needed though. Its a passion fueled by business - ideal combination. We are fine doing private projects and none of the other modders have so many private succeses - working for top simulator companies, or top car brands or governments. I was super happy when CR7 or Sergio Ramos or other guys from RM drove on our track in a simulator - a track which I made mainly myself some 5 years ago. So I dont have to go to other peoples track mods and complain like the other jealous modder guys who constantly troll anything we post or say. You can have Your "perfect" few tiny projects to look around from all sides. We are happy to give people thousands of kilometers of precise, accurate tracks with some small "flaws" and still improving depending on budget.
PS5. look at the different patterns (in most cases) on that "zebras" -> pedestrian crossings.
SIM TRAXX Konrad
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This "ignorant" understands how a business operates. Hint: You produce a viable product that people want to pay for, and that's how you make money.
Again, if you want to mod stuff as a passion project, do whatever you want. If you want to run a business, then treat it like a business. If you have a lot of private clients - Great! I'm happy for you.
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YOUR TIREWALLS? excuse moi but I think I am looking at the wrong track? Road Atlanta 2022? See screenshot 1 from left. CubeTires(tm) + NM shader comparing to the screenshot 2 - SIM TRAXX tires from Arad race track, Autobahn CC, M1 Concourse and more - and yes we have also low poly tires that load when the car drives away from the tires FOR OPTIMISATION. Not even talking about the low quality detail textures on ground and the bad UV in many places on your "few" tracks - on RD just what 2-3 small tracks you worked for years? Now screenshot 3 - wtf is that? casting shadows on for patches?also did some minecraft horse working for free poop/puke on it?What is this shader? Where is proper alpha blend, why this shader? Whats wrong with those detail an normal map textures? Now screenshot 4. - seriously basic shader ksPerPixel for curbs??? thats your pipeline, I think Kunos didn't use basic shaders. This should be Multimap with NM detail or at least Multimap. Not even talking about the pixelated terrain details. Lets move to screenshot 5,6,7 - no comments on that PERFECT UV MAPPING and SUPERB BLENDING between surfaces
of your PERFECT PIPELINE you mention so many times Screenshot 8. We are getting to the end of my small review. On this screenshot You can see near perfect blending of orthophoto and high res road and also not bad curb shading on our Autobahn CC track. Now screenshot 9: Boring terrain without ortophoto or textures made from orthophoto, bad terrain blending, bad cutout - no connection between far and near terrain. Tree walls used (ok-for optimisation so it works on low end pc, but thats not industry standard anymore).Now compare this to screenshot 10 - Autobahn Country Club, also made from aerial lidar like your track (official track, paid by the real owner - btw did You get permission to create Your Atlanta track, did You even bother to contact the authorities to allow it? Do You have permission for using countless real companies logos on Your track? I doubt it, maybe I am wrong, but You just used all the companies logos without their knowledge-thats illegal - didnt even add a screenshot of them here, because I can only add 10 screens here, maybe will add in next post). Now I am sure that there are mistakes on our tracks, even on the screen 10 I showed few places where there are holes in terrain - also some colours dont match ideally, but overally --- hm you compare. We also used high poly custom made (specially for this track- our vege-guy knows even latin words for the trees) vegetation + low poly trees created from the high poly trees - for OPTIMISATION, did You create Your low poly trees at least based on real trees on your tracks, or just used some that look abit like the real ones?
So to conclude, if You want I can make a full review of Your few "mods" and post it on our many channels and social media so thousands of people see the difference between SIM TRAXX and self called "best modder in AC". Just wondering if I should lose more time on such things. Maybe not worth it, I better focus on some new exciting projects.
PS. Small track like Atlanta my team would do within 1-2 weeks max and better! We made Autobahn Country Club with 3 people in just 2-3 weeks. (including over 50 custom made buildings and high poly trees etc.)
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True, but we are a small business still and I am done making tracks for lots of money that maybe people will be interested to pay for so we can at least get our costs back. Maybe some of our passion projects were not interesting for a lot of people. Therefore we are going to invert the process - people will say which tracks they want to be done, we will estimate the cost of laserscanning, modelling, optimising, exporting to different sims etc. and then people will gather funds for them and then we will create them with highest accuracy, highest quality and very fast within just few months. The process is working very well for pivate projects. Now is time to give something good to public as well - but we need to cooperate and fund. So far all money we made on private projects we invested into improving our pipelines and creating, improving some of our public tracks. I even took some private loans to invest in Transfagarasan 1cm scan and to keep the team working on some public projects in the times when sometimes there was no private projects available - sometimes we don't get a proper private project for months and I still pay to the team so they can improve, train and so they can pay their bills. Not even talking how much we paid for social insurance and taxes.
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That's the trouble with passion projects; often times they don't get much, or any, real returns—and that makes them difficult to prioritize. Hell, that's why I haven't been able to release any of the stuff I've been working on, yet.
I've been (slowly) working on a track for ~4 years now because it keeps getting shelved for other passion projects as well as a large dose of Real Life™, and I just had a discussion with a friend about starting over nearly from scratch on it with everything that's been learned throughout my various projects over the last few years.At the end of the day, you do you. What works for you won't work for everyone. Running a business is hard (I also run a business, so I know those pains all too well) and it takes a lot of dedication and involves a lot of risk, no matter what you're doing.
I'd still suggest fully finishing up a public offering, rather than a smattering of several things, because it will show off the abilities of the company in the best light. That, in turn, will help drive new sales; either from more public purchases or private projects. Some of the best advice given to any small business is to niche down. Streamline the portfolio and make sure it's representative of what you want to be doing in the business. Quality over quantity, and all that.
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I can surely agree on most of things You said right now. Its easier to be amateur modder and work for years on some projects, I have started like this as well - but at some point I said - no- we want to make lots of realistic tracks and people should help us if they want to have quality, accuracy and lots of tracks in quite short time - I was sick of working on one track for free for years - this is not fun at all and not passionate at all, because after some months or years working in same project it becomes not passion but some kind of addiction and its painful to create something for long time alone. Thats why bigger teams are needed, thats why some organisation is needed, one person fits all is not fitting at all - better to have specialists from processing scans, specialists from creating textures and setting up shaders, some good people modelling objects and real vegetation - all is being done simultaneously with similar quality. This way passion can give you fruits without frustration. This is why funding is needed so team can work on many projects in short time. And to conclude about quality I have just shown above a short comparison of the so self-called best modder in AC Johnr vs our quality and accuracy and speed of development. We have made more high quality tracks than all modders combined -including of course private projects not available to public (even the few public ones we made- not the ones we converted from other old projects and other authors are showing lots of quality and accuracy - just perhaps because they are paid not too many people have seen them).That's the trouble with passion projects; often times they don't get much, or any, real returns—and that makes them difficult to prioritize. Hell, that's why I haven't been able to release any of the stuff I've been working on, yet.
At the end of the day, you do you. What works for you won't work for everyone. Running a business is hard (I also run a business, so I know those pains all too well) and it takes a lot of dedication and involves a lot of risk, no matter what you're doing.
I'd still suggest fully finishing up a public offering, rather than a smattering of several things, because it will show off the abilities of the company in the best light. That, in turn, will help drive new sales; either from more public purchases or private projects. Some of the best advice given to any small business is to niche down. Streamline the portfolio and make sure it's representative of what you want to be doing in the business. Quality over quantity, and all that.
I never said I was the best modder in AC, that’s you making false statements, again.
And secondly, I’m glad you downloaded my free Road Atlanta project and was able to nitpick at my work.
Can I do the same? Can I download your Autobahn and Arad projects for free to also nitpick?
And glad you have a team to work with, happy you can pump out tracks in “3 weeks”, looking forward to see them all on the top of RD download list, since that’s why you are here right? Community forums? To discuss free projects?
Oh wait, I’m getting this all wrong!
About M1 CONCOURSE and ARAD - yes You can. ARAD is even on RD, but its a small local track so not so many people are interested - although its fully paid off by the owner of the real circuit who asked us to create it from photogrammetry references so we released it for free. About AUTOBAHN I posted 100% discount for You on CSP channel, because You are blocking my messages on Discord. All you need to do is visit our website to download AUTOBAHN AND M1 CONCOURSE.
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M1 Concourse is a club track, Arad is an oversized go-kart track, both paid projects with references provided, done by a "team". Comparing them to a full race track thats probably longer than those 2 combined, with way more objects, and of course, made by one person with public / researched material? Only you would make such laughable comparisons....
If I were you I wouldn't brag about the project where you sold pre-orders for assets you didn't know you didn't have the right to sell because you didn't read your contract. What an embarrassing saga.
Let me know when you actually release a track that is finished, polished and optimised. I've been waiting for 8 years.
Wow, thats pretty funny
