Cars Jaguar XJ13 1967 W.I.P.

[mclarenf1papa]

@Kasti Yeah, I never expected three stars, which means that mod is barely usable. And the car is very drivable, if you are classy enough with it

Those guys definitelly aren't worth attention, but I always get a bit angry when I see any other mod getting such unobjective reviews. Like getting a bad review because you made the track bumpy, and it is bumpy IRL, or you made 50s car very floaty, and then get bad reviews because it is floaty, or made a loud car loud, and getting a bad reviews for it being either too loud for someone, or not loud enough for somebody else...

But I guess every mod suffers from one, or another troll, so it shouldn't make difference.

Three stars does not mean barely usable...it means "average". Four stars is good, five stars is excellent. Just because everyone rates everything 5 stars on RD (for the most part) doesn't mean that anything below that is somehow bad.

Now obviously this is a 4 or 5 star mod without a doubt, but someone rating it as 3 stars doesn't mean they're trolling...

 

[mantasisg]

Well maybe no, but I think they are.

Three stars IMO means bad, exactly because of the reason how stars are being used in RD, proof is the average rating, those mods who are bellow four stars are all less than average. IMO Everything bellow 4 is bad, bellow 4.5 average.

But technically you are right.

Now stars are stars.... But the reasons... like "I can't dive it", "too hard for ME", "too loud", "too silent" and so on... everything like that without any solid proof to back up the opinion, based completely on first impression, and perhaps the preconception too is disrespectful, IMO. If you are giving a stars which indicates probelms then please be serious about it, put clear reasons. Perhaps they would rate real car in this way, so whatever.... We aren't going to add 500kg downforce and slick tires for that car, install modern exhast system and so on lol

 

[aphidgod]

Now obviously this is a 4 or 5 star mod without a doubt, but someone rating it as 3 stars doesn't mean they're trolling...

No, if you want to see a proper troll review, check out the Boss 302. We haven't been subjected to anything like that here.

The ones that irritate me are when users decide the reviews section is the proper place to make bug reports for or ask questions about unfinished mods. That stuff belongs in the support thread IMO, at least while the version is < 1.0. If there's a problem, bring it up so it can be addressed and fixed, or the reasoning behind it explained, don't just dock 2 stars and leave a bad review for it, hoping we'll read it and investigate your problem. We had 3 reviews on the SE30 Jota, for example, where a problem was brought up and a star was docked... fine, except I had done all 3 things correctly and the reviewers were mistaken about the features or capabilities of the real car. Those should have been questions in the thread, not reviews. But whatever. At least reviews can be edited or deleted, I guess.

^ This is especially true if it's a physics problem and I'm part of the team but not the team lead. I don't get notified when reviews are left - that only happens for the OP - so I may not even see it unless I check the reviews section 5 times a day for 2 weeks after release like a narcissistic douche...

 

[Stereo]

I do think the review star system's pretty funny... I've had people rate Spotter 3 stars because it crashes on Win 10 x64 so they can't try it at all. Personally I think that's worthy of 1 star but whatever, 3 stars means "unusable". As far as I'm concerned that app's only still there so people who don't like Crew Chief and are still on win 7 can get it.

 

[Epistolarius]

In my humble opinion the star system should be changed to something like the Steam review system - Recommended or not, and then show the ratio for all time and recently. Add a "Was this review helpful" thumbs up/down system on top of that. Scores/stars are pretty useless, just like with magazine game reviews.

 

[mantasisg]

Stars works good while people weight them, and give reasonable and constructive explanation, reason if there is an issue, or they thinks that there are. But sadly not every time. Steam like system would be nice, but I guess many would be unhappy to change traditions, after all there will always be someone who is from another planet.

 

[Kasti]

Now stars are stars.... But the reasons... like "I can't dive it", "too hard for ME", "too loud", "too silent" and so on... everything like that without any solid proof to back up the opinion, based completely on first impression, and perhaps the preconception too is disrespectful, IMO. If you are giving a stars which indicates probelms then please be serious about it, put clear reasons. Perhaps they would rate real car in this way, so whatever.... We aren't going to add 500kg downforce and slick tires for that car, install modern exhast system and so on lol

Perhaps there is sometimes a complete misunderstanding how to vote - i give my stars looking how correctly the car/track mod is made in comparison to it´s original and how much potential is in it, when in early stage. When the car is in RL a nasty beast, it has to be nasty beast ingame to be a good mod. If the track is bumpy(like sebring) it has to be bumpy ingame.

What always is astonishing me, is the complaining when they fly off the track - it`s always the car for them to blame... No thought about themselves making a mistake for example driving it like a modern F1 with tons of downforce and slick tires...

Late 60ies Prototypes often were creating lift like a planes wing. A perfect example is the Porsche 917 in it´s original configuration. At speeds above 300 km/h the back starts to lift dramatic, causing the rear tires to loose traction making the car dangerously unstable.Test drivers called the car "Geschwür"(german word for abscess)...

After they established the new K version, the car starts to build up downforce and the road to victory was wide open.

 

[aphidgod]

Been working on the S1 the last couple days. After 20+ hours behind the wheel of that thing, the original car feels like it's on rails.

So many little changes. It's the same car, but it's a totally different car. And I completely understand the test drivers wanting more tire...

 

[Art-J]

To play the devil's advocate, I'd say the sound complaints (not only about this car, but other mods in general) are justified if one intends to actually race these things and not only hotlap. There'd nothing worse than driving in a mixed field of stock and mod cars which have engine volume levels all over the place.

 

[mantasisg]

This update should have fixed exactly that, exterior sound of XJ was way louder than GT40, this update should have fixed that.

 

[eboo]

Car rating dosnt matter,many people may like it but somebody will not like it. There are also original cars.I think car its little easy to drive. In my opinion, the car from this period is waiting for the driver to kill him when he make mistake Sounds really ok on hq stereo speakers. Car look nice. Very good job.

 

[Kasti]

Today a worked around with chassis settings using tracks like Silverstone 66, Monza 66 full Course and the Le Mans without chicane. Yes, the car suffers badly from it´s too small rear tires. The car ist too heavy, too strong for them. But they are as they are - we have to deal with it. Imo the rear track setting is vital part of the problem - keep in mind the fact, looking from above down on the car, the wheels look like a V with a positive setting of track. This causes the car is slower changing direction and much worser, it causes much more stress on the tire on the outside in curve - bad thing if they are already too small... Secondly the riding height, we can go deeper without danger(no ground contact on the bumby Monza banking with compressed springs and dampers)

My suggestion for a more agile car with higher curve speeds:
camber front: -1degree
track rear: 5
camber rear -0,5 degrees
riding height front: 350
riding height rear: 320
Brake balance: 64%

I`m gonna test a negative and a zero track rear,perhaps it will bring more improvement.

 

[mantasisg]

@eboo Thanks Yes maybe shouldn't care about stars too much... yes there are mostly only 4-5 reviews, but it is relative, what matter is if mod is 4.7x, 4.8x, 4.9x, thats pretty much the scale haha I like when people explains the reasons well, and gives "aprroving" 5 stars after those issues gets fixed, thats fair trade, but usually they doesn't lol This reminds me that I still have to try your Manta update

And I don't think that car should be terribly hard. But it definitelly should be over the limit.

@Kasti Thanks, man Thats a lot of work, I suppose you talk about "pre crash" variant, because you talk about small tires. Don't worry about that one aphidgod will have it properly made soon.

I also so got used to 0.97 by now, I don't feel anything wrong about the way it handles.

 

[aphidgod]

And speaking of tires, I was just linking Mantas the photos I took of the real ones and they're not the same size as the tires that went on in 1973, at least as published in the book. So maybe I'll revisit that while we're working.

 

[Kasti]

@Kasti Thanks, man Thats a lot of work, I suppose you talk about "pre crash" variant, because you talk about small tires. Don't worry about that one aphidgod will have it properly made soon.

I also so got used to 0.97 by now, I don't feel anything wrong about the way it handles.

The car is already wonderfull to drive. The are only some guys nagging around, without the knowledge how different cars of that time in comparison to a modern LMP1 or F1 are and that a different drive style is needed. My intention was to help people having problems with the car´s handling as it is now.(Yes it is not the S1, just the normal one- will an improved S1 be the final?).

I really like to do the process of working out a good setup, especially for cars which are a little bit nasty. Working on details... and never caring how often i crash - each crash reply shows me where improvement is needed or what a fool i was, making a dumb mistake, causing the crash. The challenge of cars like the XJR is much more exciting, modern easy to drive car are often boring... old racecars on old tracks, much more fun to drive. And they remember me of watching their originals racing on tracks like the Nord...

You all did already a really damn good job on that car

 

[mantasisg]

Thanks, @Kasti. I'm sure they would try your setting if they would really care about the car. But perhaps trying a mod should take more than 10 laps in a span of a week. I can not undrive the XJ13 and try it like it would be fresh to me. Like you I find it already alright. IMO just have to give the right for some people to dislike the car, I dislike some cars too.

I don't want to escalate this "drama" more higher. I like the discussion, but the bare statements that this car is like this, or like that is not a discussion. Some people should chill out and try to get tires warm and do at least a normal hotlapping session when you start slow and get progressively faster. Not just do three laps on the edge, because "you are trying the mod", thats my message.

Though a more constructive feedback can not be ignored and attention is being paid, feedback is good, even if it seems that it is still a matter of taste some times. This being said, there are some physics tweaks to do, as Jason has said before. But I don't think that those tweaks will transform true jaguar into a domestic cat.

 

[Kasti]

Perhaps it is because of just downloading everything, without wasting a thought about it. For example I don`t download modern F1 or streetcar mods - I´m not interested in those car. I don´t like them, how could i be able to give fair feedback? It´is 100% predictable what would happen... driving around some few laps, getting bored and delete the mod... it wouldn´t be unfair to the modder if i would give stars and write negative review. So i simply don`t do it and use my time for mods of cars types i prefer, like the XJR or the Lola T70.

 

[mantasisg]

I am really happy that GT Sport added XJ13, I got a bit inspired, and I have decided to do a better body work. Rear end was ~ 5cm too long, and I can say that it is down to my stupidity, I remember streatching it out. The hardest parts to get right "corners" both wrong front and rear. Headlights too narrow. Rear bottom panels, too low, front bottom panels too low, some curves a little bit lacking... Well, at least I think so... hopefully I am not breaking while fixing.

I wonder if I should replace current mod bodywork with this new one (which is wip now). Or leave it, and save for possible future mod, for perhaps future gen moddable sim. Because I would break skins and lods. Also It probably would fit better to do whole model revision. But I won't be beating "dead horse". There are already 100 000 mods for AC, and this one probably already lived its best time.

Anyway... to help myself to observe model better, I stepped rendering game up a little. I think it looks ok. Though it is still wip. You can see marks of "hammer", floating rivets, some strange bits maybe...

A ton of more angles: https://imgur.com/a/DZCEv

So should I keep old body for future update, or replace it with new one, and break all nice skins by Nighteye, and also break Lods, well at least B LOD for sure would be useless.

 

[ltcars]

I am really happy that GT Sport added XJ13, I got a bit inspired, and I have decided to do a better body work. Rear end was ~ 5cm too long, and I can say that it is down to my stupidity, I remember streatching it out. The hardest parts to get right "corners" both wrong front and rear. Headlights too narrow. Rear bottom panels, too low, front bottom panels too low, some curves a little bit lacking... Well, at least I think so... hopefully I am not breaking while fixing.

I wonder if I should replace current mod bodywork with this new one (which is wip now). Or leave it, and save for possible future mod, for perhaps future gen moddable sim. Because I would break skins and lods. Also It probably would fit better to do whole model revision. But I won't be beating "dead horse". There are already 100 000 mods for AC, and this one probably already lived its best time.

Anyway... to help myself to observe model better, I stepped rendering game up a little. I think it looks ok. Though it is still wip. You can see marks of "hammer", floating rivets, some strange bits maybe...

A ton of more angles: https://imgur.com/a/DZCEv

So should I keep old body for future update, or replace it with new one, and break all nice skins by Nighteye, and also break Lods, well at least B LOD for sure would be useless.

Replace it! Firstly, of course, for our own good, but secondly, I know this from my own experience, I make these big plans, which sound nice, but keep forgetting about them

 

[aphidgod]

Why save it for the future? Who knows if there will be AC2, or if it will be moddable? Who knows if you'll find a team for that mod like you did for this one? May as well get it done while it's do-able.