DiRT Rally Is Dirt Rally close to RBR's physics/FFB now?
- Thread starter Mike85
- Start date
Dirt Rally is shaping up as an awesome game. The FEELING of rally is pretty much unmatched by any other rally game.
I know I won't be popular with the RBR old boys, but RBR wasn't all that. Yes, it had a physics engine that had a lot of time put into it, but IMO it came out as an overly-complicated set of calculations with no soul (ie. the FEELING of rally). It can't be that hard to drive a rally car. I can comfortably give a civilian car a good burl through some gravel and control it without too much difficulty. A rally car bred for that kind of stuff, should revel in it. It seems like they spent lots of time getting the suspension and setups calculated, but haven't got the surfaces right.
Anyway, good going Codemasters! You have my respect after those last few Dirt "rally" games :S
I know I won't be popular with the RBR old boys, but RBR wasn't all that. Yes, it had a physics engine that had a lot of time put into it, but IMO it came out as an overly-complicated set of calculations with no soul (ie. the FEELING of rally). It can't be that hard to drive a rally car. I can comfortably give a civilian car a good burl through some gravel and control it without too much difficulty. A rally car bred for that kind of stuff, should revel in it. It seems like they spent lots of time getting the suspension and setups calculated, but haven't got the surfaces right.
Anyway, good going Codemasters! You have my respect after those last few Dirt "rally" games :S
Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
I couldn't disagree more.
If I had to pick one single game in the history who have REAL soul it has to be RBR.
No other game gives me that "Oh this is for real" feeling when I am behind the wheel with RBR.
It just feels real sitting behind the wheel and it's almost like it's beyond gaming.
Easy to drive slow to medium speeds and harder as I go faster.
Just like IRL.
Dirt Rally has potential to be the next King of Rally sims but Codies have to work hard and long before it tops the Physics and FFB that made RBR last 11 years and still kicking @ss.
I really hope that Codies fix the physics issues that makes the cars stopping so fast and feels like they are submerged in liquid.
IMO I also feel that the DR cars are overly feeling too weak for having + 300HP, that is also a point where RBR excels and feels much more powerful (realistic) and you're really able to control the car with your right foot in corners etc etc.
Arne Dopudja
Leader of the infamous Chevy Gang.
For me, RBR is unnatural to drive, not difficult. But mastering anything in any game or real life is difficult.
Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
I have been using RBR exclusively for a whole week now and getting back to DR today it feels very mediocre compared to RBR.
Sure DR looks and sounds great but that is not what makes me coming back to play a game/sim.
I also noticed that the cars in DR feels very weak compared to RBR/Real-life especially in lower gears were they lose power completely momentarily when you need it the most like in cornering/hairpins ! There is no way you can control the cars with your right foot out of a corner etc etc.
I really hope that Codies put all their efforts in working on the Physics/FFB so we get a full blown Sim.
Sure DR looks and sounds great but that is not what makes me coming back to play a game/sim.
I also noticed that the cars in DR feels very weak compared to RBR/Real-life especially in lower gears were they lose power completely momentarily when you need it the most like in cornering/hairpins ! There is no way you can control the cars with your right foot out of a corner etc etc.
I really hope that Codies put all their efforts in working on the Physics/FFB so we get a full blown Sim.
DR is really shaping up to be a cool rally "sim". It's hard to say though....in replays, there's a lot that looks mostly realistic. Visually believable; but when it comes down to it, the braking seems too good, and I can take my 1986 300zx in 3rd gear, 30 mph, and easily make it step out sideways wildly (that's at low rpm too) on gravel. In DR, you need full on clutch kicking, or at least, 100 more horsepower to get that same thing done. Though irl, it's not very "hard" to drive fast, besides the fear of it, the controllability makes DR seem pretty close, however, with RBR, there's a certain level of "I just went too fast, oh no...." that makes it feel life like. RBR has much more direct steering.
FFB wise, RBR still kicks tail. It's raw and unhinged by anything, especially with a T500RS. DR's FFB as of last update is improved, significantly, but it still feels like it's tailing behind somewhat. Dampened? Not sure.
Longitudinal grip feels pretty off in DR, but Lateral feels pretty decent. The bumps n such in both games feel good, however RBR seems much more reactive to it. It's hard to say going from such an old game, and then DX11 tesselated road surfaces. Even rFactor had the old polygonical surfaces on many tracks that felt like bumps, but were just the polys filling in curves and hills.
FFB wise, RBR still kicks tail. It's raw and unhinged by anything, especially with a T500RS. DR's FFB as of last update is improved, significantly, but it still feels like it's tailing behind somewhat. Dampened? Not sure.
Longitudinal grip feels pretty off in DR, but Lateral feels pretty decent. The bumps n such in both games feel good, however RBR seems much more reactive to it. It's hard to say going from such an old game, and then DX11 tesselated road surfaces. Even rFactor had the old polygonical surfaces on many tracks that felt like bumps, but were just the polys filling in curves and hills.
Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
Wow -excellent written !
Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
As long as Codies won't top RBR's Physics and FFB there won't be any RBR killer at all !
It doesn't really matter how good Dirt Rally looks or sounds !
If they don't nail the Physics and FFB it aint going to happen !
Physics and FFB is a guarantor of longevity for a sim.
RBR is the ultimate proof of that.
You think people need to move on !
Well think again because the current Dirt Rally is very very far from the Physics and FFB level of RBR and that's a fact.
I personally would love a successor to RBR but Codies have been very quiet about any physics improvements which makes me begin to doubt we will see a true successor to RBR from Codies.
I'd suggest that when you have been driving a sim for over 10 years then that sim defines how physics should be and there will never be a replacement. You see the same thing with GPL. The same guy who produced GPL produced iRacing's Lotus 49. Logic demands with 14 years of progress it must be better, but for GPL fans GPL physics are still the best.
I'd also point out that a key element behind longevity is lack of a sequel. Look at all the sims with long lives - GPL, NASCAR 2003, RBR, GT Legends, GTR2. They all have one thing in common. There was never a GPL2, a NASCAR 2004, an RBR2, a GTL2 or a GTR3.
Hopefully DiRT Rally will be a title for those of us who never got hooked by RBR but who are looking for something more sim-like than previous DiRT versions.
I'd also point out that a key element behind longevity is lack of a sequel. Look at all the sims with long lives - GPL, NASCAR 2003, RBR, GT Legends, GTR2. They all have one thing in common. There was never a GPL2, a NASCAR 2004, an RBR2, a GTL2 or a GTR3.
Hopefully DiRT Rally will be a title for those of us who never got hooked by RBR but who are looking for something more sim-like than previous DiRT versions.
Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
Well I feel Assetto Corsa topped RBR's Physics & FFB but that doesn't make RBR a bad sim.
They will both live a long and happy life on my SSD
Dirt Rally begins to feel like someone you fell in love with for their looks and talks but after a while you find out that there's more to it than that and what really counts is how they make you feel about them
I really really hope I'm wrong about Dirt Rally but .................we'll see in the coming months I guess
Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
I strongly disagree !
You must feel DR really suck then because RBR cars feels a lot more agile than the DR cars do IMO !
I feel the cars in DR are pretty dull (forgiving) compared to the RBR cars and also the RBR car feels like they really have +300BHP which is something I can't say about the DR cars.
Tobbe Bergman
@Simberia
Dirt 3
Yes -RBR is still the one and only !
If Codies plays their cards right we might have a successor though !
A safe bet would be when Kunos ( FFB & Physics Guru ) Stefano Casillo says that the FFB & Physics is now just as awesome as the rest of the sim
That's when we truly know we have a true successor to RBR
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Arne Dopudja
Leader of the infamous Chevy Gang.
Except we are not even talking about Dirt 3.
We're not mentally challenged, chill out with the bold letters.
If your car is losing power or not pulling out of a corner then you must not be popping the clutch I have no problem getting the car to go sideways! (I have a problem maintaining the slide on Dirt or Gravel sometimes but on tarmac no problem)
In RBR its to easy to make your car go side ways you don't even need to use the handbrake at all in RBR you just tap the ridiculously overpowered brakes and turn the required amount and then floor it and your cad never wants to spin out. In DiRT Rally you have to create the slide and then maintain it.
The only things in RBR I like over DiRT Rally are:
1)Damage Model (although its very close to DiRT Rally)
2)Damage Physics (like hit a tree head on youve damaged a radiator bumper front spoiler and there's a chance you have to much damage to carry on)
3)Call for help (It just cooler looking than just spawning back on track after resetting)
And that's it!
DiRT Rally what I like:
1)FFB (although I do use a custom FFB but I do like the standard FFB more than RBR FFB. The only thing RBR does better is frontend you know when you have lost grip or oversteer)
2)Drive Physics
3)Road surface audio
4)The stages are uneven unlike RBR they just go up down up down up down occasionally jump and pot hole. They needs to be alot more added to DiRT Rally though.
5) Graphics (obviously although not the most important thing)
DiRT Rally things I don't like:
1)Damage model and damage physics are way to forgiven.
2) Not enough stages (Rally stages mainly I want more of.
People have to remember also DiRT Rally is an early access game its not a finished product unlike RBR!!
No Let's wait for me to receive hate
(This is my opinion and I know I'm only 1 out of like 50 people that like DiRT Rally)
