Is Classic Content Overlooked in Simracing?
- Thread starter Davide Nativo
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I pretty much only drive classics, I got my just for that. I would love more content but in all honesty saying that there is not much content is false. I have pretty huge amount of classic formulas and tracks on my Assetto Corsa. Of course some of them are quite bad in quality, but atleast they are fun to drive
I suppose it depends on your definition of "going strong". I am a long time GPL fan but clearly GPL is no longer the popular title it once was. But to answer your question - the lack of a successor is one key reason, and the amazing mod community is another. It is also perhaps worth mentioning the Papyrus dev who worked in his spare time to produce a patch to allow GPL to use processors with clock-speeds above 1 GHz. Without him I think GPL would have died.
You're absolutely right, I used to like classic cars before, but never fot into them because I've used paddles to change gears, or had to use auto clutch, blip and shift because I did not have a clutch pedal. These cars were cool, nice sounds, great design, but I couldn't love them.
As soon as I got a 3 pedals set and a H shifter, I understood immediately how insanely great they were and how much as I have missed all these years without the proper equipement.
To enjoy classic content you need better equipment, and many are not willing to spend more money for a hobby they are not sure will bring them more enjoyment than the combo of cheaper equipment and modern cars. I discoved the classic car pleasure because I found a unbeatable sale for a g29 with its h shifter. Without that opportunity I would not have invested in a 3 pedals set and a h shifter.
Another thing about classic content is what is considered as classic by different generations of players : I watched formula 1 and other categories on tv in the late 80s, 90s and early 2000s, so for me it's not really classic content. Cars from the 60s, 70s, and early 80s are classic cars for me. Before the 60s they are antiquities . Therefore I am more interested in the cars contemporary of my youth, the 80s and 90s and early 2000s, when I watched much more races on tv and started sim racing, and those from the 60s and 70s, as they were still shown in movies and documentaries.
But for someone currently in his 20s, the 80s, 90s and early 2000s cars are classic cars. And those before are antiquities. And the late 2000 cars are the cars from his youth.
The definition of classic cars depends on the age of the simracers and I assume it's really hard to appeal all of them. A partial solution has been found, including one car for various seasons and not providing a full championship for one specific year (and I assume it would be difficult anyway to get all the licenses to do so). By doing that, any simrzcer can race what he considers a classic car. But he loses old racing rules, he races single make competitions, often on modern tracks... Project cars 2 had done a step in the right direction, specifically for the GT series, providing several cars for each period and a few classic tracks. It was and still is imo its main quality.
If it would be so irrelevant,i wouldn't be churning out full grid mods every year, and even huge franchises like F1 or MotoGP wouldn't include any classic content in their games...
It's not a matter of what sells and what doesn't. I am sure modern supercars sold a lot of Gran Turismo copies, but if it wasn't for Gran Turismo, some cars that were not even sold in the west wouldn't be highly sought after, or obscure racing cars from other era wouldn't have the cult admiration they have today.
It's not a matter of what sells and what doesn't. I am sure modern supercars sold a lot of Gran Turismo copies, but if it wasn't for Gran Turismo, some cars that were not even sold in the west wouldn't be highly sought after, or obscure racing cars from other era wouldn't have the cult admiration they have today.
With the great mod for Assetto Corsa, GPL has almost found its successor. It will be really the case as soon as AC will receive the right 67 tracks...
I agree that anyway, there are still exclusive mods available for GPL (can am, other f1 years...) with a lot of historical tracks included. We are far from having them converted or created for AC or, better option (for the weather features), for rfactor2.
I suppose 60s are optimum representation of the heart in classic race cars, just around the time that negative aerodynamic lift days was dawning, I'd say whole decade is the center and peak point of exciting vs safe, playful vs strict. Something about 60s is very fascinating how it went from narrow tires and no wings against lift, to wide tires and wings that were not only to minimize lift but even about to give negative lift.
Not so much about safety yet.
Also chronologically it is right in the middle as for now,
1894 - 1900 - 1910 - 1920 - 1930 -- 1950 - 1960 - 1970 - 1980 - 1990 - 2000 - 2010 - 2019
Maybe thats why GPL is so appealing. AMS has great field of these cars, rF2 has great field of this cars also including F2 and F3, AC has great L49, forgiving but awesome 312 and a shady mod that even stole the respectful name of GPL.
edit: used bold edit, for the sake of meme lol
Not so much about safety yet.
Also chronologically it is right in the middle as for now,
1894 - 1900 - 1910 - 1920 - 1930 -- 1950 - 1960 - 1970 - 1980 - 1990 - 2000 - 2010 - 2019
Maybe thats why GPL is so appealing. AMS has great field of these cars, rF2 has great field of this cars also including F2 and F3, AC has great L49, forgiving but awesome 312 and a shady mod that even stole the respectful name of GPL.
edit: used bold edit, for the sake of meme lol
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It's because the sim community has grown a lot in a few years. And the expectations of the simracers "experts" have heavily increased too.
10 years ago, a modder could release a classic car, with some flaws, as he did not have all the data he needed, and most of simracers were enjoying his work. Nowadays any new mod not perfectely accurate is badly reviewed, so the modders have to put mouch more work.
More work, more time, more people and more expectations from customers (simracers)... The game has changed, and some modders sell their mods (RSS for example, with great content).
Is that a description of your self? Sorry, but you must be coming from some other planet.
About cars and their beauty, its all the way around as you think, old = beauty, and not modern. Specially what is about to come.
I would help crowdfund that. It's a four cylinder Fiat, so it's basically like a few of my former RL carsBtw I'm ready to start working on the Beast of Turin - I think that fits the 'classic' category pretty well. Let me know once the funds are ready and I'll start it immediately
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The good thing of a community like RD is that we can always help with initiatives like a crowdfunding. Amazed that if there is so much interest why nobody has ever reached out for help in setting this up.
We don't bite and are happy to assist where we can
On the topic: I think sim racing is the museum of classic cars. Even the (boring) modern cars of today will one day be considered classics. Just keep a firm hold onto your current game copy and as it ages over time you have gold in your hands.
I would applaud a GT Legends 2 initiative like was promised to us some years ago but as seen before such great initiatives die an early death without any further communication.
For sure if you secure a proper budget from the community to re-build old models and use our network to get in touch with car companies (if they are still around) for official approval it's not impossible to do this. As a matter of fact the members of this site have a bulk of talent, they only need to sit down together and great things can emerge from just an idea.
We don't bite and are happy to assist where we can
On the topic: I think sim racing is the museum of classic cars. Even the (boring) modern cars of today will one day be considered classics. Just keep a firm hold onto your current game copy and as it ages over time you have gold in your hands.
I would applaud a GT Legends 2 initiative like was promised to us some years ago but as seen before such great initiatives die an early death without any further communication.
For sure if you secure a proper budget from the community to re-build old models and use our network to get in touch with car companies (if they are still around) for official approval it's not impossible to do this. As a matter of fact the members of this site have a bulk of talent, they only need to sit down together and great things can emerge from just an idea.
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To the question of old cars not being to hold a good race, because people can't master them:
I remember st-Dave's Lotus 23b mod for rf1. To me it's one of the best sim cars ever made even up to day. It felt just right - very light vehicle, plenty of grip, really easy to drive within the limits, and when it goes over the limit - it's one of the best cars that regained grip progressively and intuitively. So close racing in those cars aren't really a problem, you're not tip-toeing the throttle or think about how smooth to press the brakes to avoid all the weight transferring to the front, and the rear wheels run away... It all was there, but not to the point you're always battling with that.
A lot of modern titles have classic cars as bonuses, but all you do there is battling the car, which is great in itself, but for some reason there are no those cars like that Lotus23b that actually let you concentrate on racing.
I remember st-Dave's Lotus 23b mod for rf1. To me it's one of the best sim cars ever made even up to day. It felt just right - very light vehicle, plenty of grip, really easy to drive within the limits, and when it goes over the limit - it's one of the best cars that regained grip progressively and intuitively. So close racing in those cars aren't really a problem, you're not tip-toeing the throttle or think about how smooth to press the brakes to avoid all the weight transferring to the front, and the rear wheels run away... It all was there, but not to the point you're always battling with that.
A lot of modern titles have classic cars as bonuses, but all you do there is battling the car, which is great in itself, but for some reason there are no those cars like that Lotus23b that actually let you concentrate on racing.
I drove SCCA races in California in the 60s (Yes, I am almost too old to remember!). Those days without 'down-force' were interesting and exciting. I drove one race with a 500 hp, blown, injected Corvette. You didn't corner with the wheel, you twitched the wheel and navigated the corner with the accelerator. Very different from driving today. Even if you don't like the looks of the classic machines, learning to race them competitively on the original tracks would be a real learning experience if your only experience is with high down-force, modern racing machines.
RaceRoom had an amazing opportunity with it's series specific focus. They took it away but the single player DTM and GTMasters was really cool with slightly different rules depending on the year you chose. This with classic cars and tracks would have been great with an online focus as well, for fans of that era . This coming from a guy who doesn't really like classic cars too.
Old cars have a "fun factor", that modern cars lack... Moderrn cars are build based on safety rules = boring cars. That's it.
That's how it is on every single dicipline of racing. F1, GT, DTM, Le Mans, WRC... You can pick a actual car from every discipline and compare to 80-90's equal car. Always olders are better for me, They are more challenging to drive = "fun factor".
Older crazy cars are amazing. Cars like Group B with 500-700 horse power on a rally stage. Men... that's unbeateable. Cars whit steel brakes and no "assists"... F1 1.5 Turbo whit 1500 horses and manual shifting. Le Mans cars reaching over 400 kmph on a ****ing race...
The only bad thing was the large number of drivers killed per season. But we, as simracers, do not have that problem. We can not die driving an old beast, on the pc. Maybe we can have a heart attack, hearing the brutal sound of a DRM Capri Turbo... but that's it.
That's how it is on every single dicipline of racing. F1, GT, DTM, Le Mans, WRC... You can pick a actual car from every discipline and compare to 80-90's equal car. Always olders are better for me, They are more challenging to drive = "fun factor".
Older crazy cars are amazing. Cars like Group B with 500-700 horse power on a rally stage. Men... that's unbeateable. Cars whit steel brakes and no "assists"... F1 1.5 Turbo whit 1500 horses and manual shifting. Le Mans cars reaching over 400 kmph on a ****ing race...
The only bad thing was the large number of drivers killed per season. But we, as simracers, do not have that problem. We can not die driving an old beast, on the pc. Maybe we can have a heart attack, hearing the brutal sound of a DRM Capri Turbo... but that's it.
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They are old, a bunch of people here didn't get to see them in their heyday. Even though i couldn't understand what was going on during the 80s i always had toys inspired on the Porsche/Ferrari/Lambos(and F1s) from that era, that creates some sentiment, i'm a lot less nostalgic for the sixties than i am for the 80/90s, i can only imagine a 20 year old thinks of early 2000s as classics.
I do think they are harder to drive and less forgiving compared to modern cars, reflexes might not be as much at premium on classics, but learning heel'n'toe is much harder than changing ABS settings.
For me they are always cars to be driven consertivately, if you brake a little late they go straight if you hit the throttle too hard or on the wrong place they kick.
But if you are too conservative you lose a ton of time, there aren't many classic cars that focus on wide driveable power bands, in my opinion they are truly cars that "separate the man from the boys", but that only makes the entry level required higher.
I do think they are harder to drive and less forgiving compared to modern cars, reflexes might not be as much at premium on classics, but learning heel'n'toe is much harder than changing ABS settings.
For me they are always cars to be driven consertivately, if you brake a little late they go straight if you hit the throttle too hard or on the wrong place they kick.
But if you are too conservative you lose a ton of time, there aren't many classic cars that focus on wide driveable power bands, in my opinion they are truly cars that "separate the man from the boys", but that only makes the entry level required higher.
