OverTake.gg
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iRacing Review
- Thread starter OverTake.gg
- Start date
Chronus said:
"Or you have adapted to a style of driving that bears little to no resemblance to real life."
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I drive cars around road circuits, albeit I may be a few seconds off the quickest guys, but I get around. I accelerate, change gear, brake, enter corners, exit corners, try to find apexes, overtake other cars, spin, understeer, oversteer, get passed by other cars, get lapped etc. So this bears no resemblance to real life. How so?
I will agree with you that the NTM is not where it should be, but for the reviewer to claim if folks are road racing fans they should not bother with iRacing at all, is a total exaggeration.
Irrespective of what you think about NTM, I watched the Pro race at Suzuka last week - drivers racing the Williams @ Suzuka. It was a good race, and the majority got round. No spinning at every corner. I believe this was a road race.
Believe me, I understand your point. But mind you, the same actions ("accelerate, change gear, brake, enter corners, exit corners, try to find apexes, overtake other cars, spin, understeer, oversteer") are possible in Toca Race Driver 3, or Need for Speed Underground or the like. That is not what you or me actually understand as emulating real life racing, is it?
To be more specific, most people I talk(ed) too (including 2 iRacing Pro champions) say the same, we (iRacers) have to adapt to the physics of iracing cars (road or oval) which, even now, include the driving on ice feel.
To be fair to Dave K.'s work, his work on the NTM is a complex and difficult one, but he has already set a very high standard in:
- suspensions
- collisions
- netcode (and prediction code, simply superb)
What I criticize more than anything else is the absolute rubbish (bordering on lies) put forth by the marketing dept. of iRacing. Everything else, the physics is good enough (not stellar), the service (organization, FIRST, tracks and car modelling) is very very good.
Not everyone can spend almost 1000 dollars on content (like I did), and definitely the price is simply too high.
Geran, ignore this review and go and try iRacing yourself - only you can decide whether you like it or not.
Personally, I'm a road racing guy and I think iRacing is fantastic. For this review to say there is "zero point" in road racing and that there is a big bias towards NASCAR is just downright wrong. I think the reviewer has some sort of agenda. There are more active members in iRacing on the road side than the oval side! The graphics are great, the physics are great, the online racing is great (actually the online racing is awesome, with the SR system it's way ahead of any other game). Sure, improvements in various areas would be nice (and many are coming - there's a big update every 3 months) but that is true for every game.
I hate adding fuel to the fire, but I find it very interesting how upon a quick stats look-up, most of the "this review is spot-on" comments are from seasoned iRacing veterans, whereas the clowns thinking I have some sort of agenda are either iRacing newbies or guys who do one 20-minute race on the sim every three months. Just some food for thought.
I never understand why people get their knickers in a twist when somebody dares to criticize the physics of iRacing. Immediately fanboys step up to disagree and state the opposite 
. Criticism, especially in a review is meant to address problems the author sees that need to be adressed.
Everybody who has ever driven a real (racing) car feels that the slippery grip level that came with the NTM is not real at all. There are other games that do feel a lot more realistic in that sense.
If there is a hidden agenda why does RaceDepartment organize one of the most highly respected iRacing hosted leagues out there that includes many top drivers from the service?
I am pretty sure the Simracing Team Challenge chose iRacing for the superb online netcode, very good online racing tools, easy to setup and the administrate and tons of other very good features.
Lack of proper physics doesn't automatically make a sim bad. Not in this case at least but there is a lot of room to improve in that area and that is addressed in this review. At least thats the the way i read it.
. Criticism, especially in a review is meant to address problems the author sees that need to be adressed. Everybody who has ever driven a real (racing) car feels that the slippery grip level that came with the NTM is not real at all. There are other games that do feel a lot more realistic in that sense.
If there is a hidden agenda why does RaceDepartment organize one of the most highly respected iRacing hosted leagues out there that includes many top drivers from the service?
I am pretty sure the Simracing Team Challenge chose iRacing for the superb online netcode, very good online racing tools, easy to setup and the administrate and tons of other very good features.
Lack of proper physics doesn't automatically make a sim bad. Not in this case at least but there is a lot of room to improve in that area and that is addressed in this review. At least thats the the way i read it.
The "newbs" are still in the "This is the awesomest ever"-bubble. They will wake up. Or keep lying to themselves.
Even as an A-Class driver, I spent countless hours in private testing and did many races which ended up iRatings wise non-sanctioned (number of drivers below the limit, particularly with the Jetta and the V8 SC). It was pretty obvious to me and others that the OTM had serious problems (tire degradation, tire temps, grip levels below normal). To all the complaints or uneasiness about the tire model how did the staff respond? With a "dave is working on a new model which will take care of the latent issues" - this way before the NTM pre-release.
The driving on ice feel is nothing new and most definitely was not brought on by the NTM.
Problem is, all the fanboys loud cries give devs a sense of "all is fine", any serious attempt at conveying this to Dave in the forums is met with the usual "rational" behaviour. Show them telemetry, they'll pick their own telemetry with different readings, have a RL professional racing driver tell them that the real life C6r is a "very much planted, sort of on-rails" type of car (which would also be representative of any GT car) and they'll tell the racing driver he is not well versed in simracing...
One of the problems Iracing and even rf2 have attracting sim players{admittedly I have no idea of rf2 beta sales}, is that if I were to rank the sims I have based on hardest to easiest, iracing and rf2 would be 1 and 2....for example....
1...iracing
2...rf2
3...GSC/Netkar
4...Simbin
Given that Simbin{RACE07/EVO} were the easiest for me to drive, one would assume that in fields of 25 with the F3000, you'd have a pretty tight top10-15, but it was often the case that there were only 3-5 fast drivers, and even some of the very fast F1 2007 drivers were nothing special in the F3000, yet if my opinion has any merit, we've got a bunch of games that are even harder to drive.
Personally, I wouldn't make a sim any harder to drive than GSC{not that I'm saying I find it hard to drive, just on the scales}......and as we all know, the faster you try and go, the higher the difficulty becomes.
I'm certain that either Assetto Corso and/or rf2 will succeed longterm, ie, both will be viable MP sims with decent player numbers, but it's possible that rf2 could fail if people keep crashing whilst trying to place a time.
1...iracing
2...rf2
3...GSC/Netkar
4...Simbin
Given that Simbin{RACE07/EVO} were the easiest for me to drive, one would assume that in fields of 25 with the F3000, you'd have a pretty tight top10-15, but it was often the case that there were only 3-5 fast drivers, and even some of the very fast F1 2007 drivers were nothing special in the F3000, yet if my opinion has any merit, we've got a bunch of games that are even harder to drive.
Personally, I wouldn't make a sim any harder to drive than GSC{not that I'm saying I find it hard to drive, just on the scales}......and as we all know, the faster you try and go, the higher the difficulty becomes.
I'm certain that either Assetto Corso and/or rf2 will succeed longterm, ie, both will be viable MP sims with decent player numbers, but it's possible that rf2 could fail if people keep crashing whilst trying to place a time.
Isn't there anyone who thinks that the tire behaviours(as issues, or its underlying behaviours) have always been in its papyrus engine especially since GPL?
I'm not saying in detail but saying of things that can be generally figured out, and it would be much easier to feel what the iracing is simply more like NR2003 & GPL than rF or nKP, as all program engines are usually based on its own basic characters. It's always hard to change its basic ways, hence I'm so doubting the expectation its longtime characters may be satisfactorily fixed some day. And I think all the devs know this already, and that the words, never-ending 'NTM' or '2.0' itself are kind of marketing for propaganda.
I'm not saying in detail but saying of things that can be generally figured out, and it would be much easier to feel what the iracing is simply more like NR2003 & GPL than rF or nKP, as all program engines are usually based on its own basic characters. It's always hard to change its basic ways, hence I'm so doubting the expectation its longtime characters may be satisfactorily fixed some day. And I think all the devs know this already, and that the words, never-ending 'NTM' or '2.0' itself are kind of marketing for propaganda.
It seems that way.
I think many iracers use hi-res pedals to compensate, and with the other qualities the game has, they consider it good enough.
Nice review. But if iRacing road physics is like racing on ice - what should we compare rF2 physics to ? rF2 it's a game where there is no grip at all... If you don't have ultimate setup you race like cow on ice. This is what I hate about rF2. But in iRacing you can be pretty stable and have some fun even with baseline setup. And with good setup you just become more stable and a bit more fast. It's working not like in rF2: you got a setup - grip on \ don't have it - grip off.
That may be true (I am not beta-testing rF2 so I can't know for sure) but what does that have to do with iRacing or this review? Nothing.
iRacing, whilst in eternal development, is a complete product and has been so for years. rFactor2 is not and is far away from release date. Comparing the two is therefore unfair to rF2.
Go ahead and compare iRacing, as is, to NetKar Pro (a single update in the last 12 months or so, iirc). Willing to take that chance?
i'm not a big iracing person, like i said, i was interested to try, and heard about the bad parts, and didn't want to run the risk of spending alot of money and getting banned, or not liking it, so i guess take this with a grain of salt, but this is what i heard from a few people when i asked about physics...
heard Carl Edwards used his brothers to run a few laps and said "If this was how these cars drove in real life, none of us would be able to complete a lap without wrecking", Cale Gale (who is this? idk) said "If they think this is how a latemodel handles, they can ****ing keep it", and apparently Dale earndheart junior had a 4 year winless streak while he was a member, quit and 6 months later started winning again. not sure if this really means anything, just things i heard.
heard Carl Edwards used his brothers to run a few laps and said "If this was how these cars drove in real life, none of us would be able to complete a lap without wrecking", Cale Gale (who is this? idk) said "If they think this is how a latemodel handles, they can ****ing keep it", and apparently Dale earndheart junior had a 4 year winless streak while he was a member, quit and 6 months later started winning again. not sure if this really means anything, just things i heard.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that every car in rf2 is perfect/finished, but these cars have good grip levels{especially once there's 10-15laps laid down}...
Skip Barber{grippy version, lol}
GT4
Senna F1 mod
60F2/60F3
Renault Megane
I like these cars below, but don't think they're perfect.....
F3.5
Corvette GT2
GTR
None of what I said changes the fact that rf2 is still much harder to drive than most sims, and I strongly suspect is a much better driving experience with a hi-end wheel and load cell pedals.
Great article, i can relate very well.
Been driving almost all sims there is, and iracing road cars just have that dull feel to it. Once the game calculates weight going outwards from your rear, you just cant catch it. Driving on the edge is not the same as it should be. In rfactor you can make a car stiff and on all speeds keep total control on the edge as you work your ass off with throttle and steering, like you should.
In iracing you just have to play the waiting game, setting up for understeer and understeering along, planning ahead when the ice can hit you and then - as you power understeer out of a corner, suddenly your rear goes. I have a good opinion of my driving skills and i just dont find that realistic. Lets hope for a improvement instead of sticking all that money in their pockets and overhyped photorealism/licensing systems.
Been driving almost all sims there is, and iracing road cars just have that dull feel to it. Once the game calculates weight going outwards from your rear, you just cant catch it. Driving on the edge is not the same as it should be. In rfactor you can make a car stiff and on all speeds keep total control on the edge as you work your ass off with throttle and steering, like you should.
In iracing you just have to play the waiting game, setting up for understeer and understeering along, planning ahead when the ice can hit you and then - as you power understeer out of a corner, suddenly your rear goes. I have a good opinion of my driving skills and i just dont find that realistic. Lets hope for a improvement instead of sticking all that money in their pockets and overhyped photorealism/licensing systems.
Rob Gray
kikz
Good article. I do agree that the road cars often seem a bit slippy at the rear, but then they're not moving fast (no downforce) and they have a fair bit of power. I was watching the foot work of some real world drivers in V8supercars over the weekend and they don't nail the throttle either...
My main response to the physics fail of road cars is that when I look at top iRacers in the events I compete in, they are generally real life road racers. Take Chaz Mostert, Shane Van Gisbergen, Scott T Mclaughlin, Fabian Coulthard, David Bersnard, Steve Owen, Anton De Pasquale, and more. These are guys at or near the top of the respective championsips - Most of the V8supercar drivers. They clearly know how to drive a car fast and they use that knowledge on iRacing to their advantage. You don't get this in games like F1 2012. That said, I do remember Scott Mclaughlin one night saying that the physics aren't all that great. Hard to know if he means not 100% accurate, or if he means "complete rubbish and so far from reality".
Personally, I'm no real life race car driver, the closest I've come is paying for 12 laps driving a v8supercar, and a couple of season in "J class" karts at club level, so I don't have anything to compare iRacing too. I have played pretty much every decent sim out there, including rFactor 1 and 2, Project CARS, Assetto Corsa (which is nice!) and all the codemasters fluff. I'm happy with iRacing.
My main response to the physics fail of road cars is that when I look at top iRacers in the events I compete in, they are generally real life road racers. Take Chaz Mostert, Shane Van Gisbergen, Scott T Mclaughlin, Fabian Coulthard, David Bersnard, Steve Owen, Anton De Pasquale, and more. These are guys at or near the top of the respective championsips - Most of the V8supercar drivers. They clearly know how to drive a car fast and they use that knowledge on iRacing to their advantage. You don't get this in games like F1 2012. That said, I do remember Scott Mclaughlin one night saying that the physics aren't all that great. Hard to know if he means not 100% accurate, or if he means "complete rubbish and so far from reality".
Personally, I'm no real life race car driver, the closest I've come is paying for 12 laps driving a v8supercar, and a couple of season in "J class" karts at club level, so I don't have anything to compare iRacing too. I have played pretty much every decent sim out there, including rFactor 1 and 2, Project CARS, Assetto Corsa (which is nice!) and all the codemasters fluff. I'm happy with iRacing.
NTM, and the sim in general, is an ever evolving beast. And that can be annoying to adjust to as it changes almost every season (every 13 weeks). And yes, if you buy all content it can be quite a large expense.
But hands down, nothing beats iRacing's online service. I can't join one of these other online sim championships because I can't (and I won't) set aside a specific time every each week to race. iRacing's format works perfect for me. I still feel like I'm competing for a championship... but it can work around my schedule and when I have time to race. That's the number 1 reason why I subscribe to iRacing. Also the match making process (best with series that have large participation numbers) means that I get a good competitive race (with drivers around my skill level) all the time.
But hands down, nothing beats iRacing's online service. I can't join one of these other online sim championships because I can't (and I won't) set aside a specific time every each week to race. iRacing's format works perfect for me. I still feel like I'm competing for a championship... but it can work around my schedule and when I have time to race. That's the number 1 reason why I subscribe to iRacing. Also the match making process (best with series that have large participation numbers) means that I get a good competitive race (with drivers around my skill level) all the time.
There's a lot to criticize, but over-doing it is just as bad as blindly defending it.I never understand why people get their knickers in a twist when somebody dares to criticize the physics of iRacing. Immediately fanboys step up to disagree and state the opposite
Everybody who has ever driven a real (racing) car feels that the slippery grip level that came with the NTM is not real at all. There are other games that do feel a lot more realistic in that sense.
If there is a hidden agenda why does RaceDepartment organize one of the most highly respected iRacing hosted leagues out there that includes many top drivers from the service?
I am pretty sure the Simracing Team Challenge chose iRacing for the superb online netcode, very good online racing tools, easy to setup and the administrate and tons of other very good features.
Lack of proper physics doesn't automatically make a sim bad. Not in this case at least but there is a lot of room to improve in that area and that is addressed in this review. At least thats the the way i read it.
Most of the review is pretty good (though certainly not professional), but it does come across as a bit of sour grapes when you realize the author got banned for two months for profanity on his paint scheme just before writing this review. Did Austin actually think 5 years was a good time for an honest review, or was he upset and decided to vent? The appearance of a conflict of interest is just as bad as an actual one.
http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/the-other-side-of-iracing.66234/
That may be true (only he knows for sure), but the thing is: from what you read (you did that, no?) is he right or not? Dismissing the review entirely on a "conflict of interest" seems a bit of a case of "sour grapes" between you and the author of the review. If that is not the case, then what exactly is wrong with the review?
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