rF2 Interested in a GT Club and League Program?

[Tero Dahlberg]

The first GT3 Club event is now up; the race is scheduled for this coming Friday (7th August 2015). Details about the event can be found here. Be sure to get involved! Hopefully we'll see you on track.

I think some of the BES cars used on the server are older than the ones linked to in this thread earlier. Here:
http://www.racedepartment.com/threa...-club-and-league-program.108836/#post-2055638

 

[Daiman Patel]

I think some of the BES cars used on the server are older than the ones linked to in this thread earlier. Here:
http://www.racedepartment.com/threa...-club-and-league-program.108836/#post-2055638

Apologies, I didn't realise that some of the other BES cars had also been updated. The server has been updated and restarted, and should now use the latest known version of every car.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

@David O'Reilly feels free to use the ISI BOP for the N24. You have the download link I dont mind if you use them directly, but pls dont use the latest apex modding version as it is pre release and must not be shared.

 

[Daiman Patel]

The next GT3 Club event is now up; the race, at Donington Park, is scheduled for this coming Friday (14th August 2015). Details about the event can be found here. Be sure to get involved! Hopefully we'll see you on track. And a quick heads up, the plan is to change the car selection next week to the BES mod and @Frederic Schornstein's BOP ISI GT cars. If you have any suggestions be sure to let us know.

 

[David O'Reilly]

I just wanted to add that at least some of the Apex cars are faster than the BES cars (low drag Coef).
If drivers could please look beyond that in their testing and see which cars are more fun to drive-immersive etc.

If for example drivers like the BES cars then the Apex cars speed won't be an issue as they wont be around.
Also people noticed some BOP issues within the BES cars. EG the 911 was 2-3 sec slower than the Nissan at Silverstone.
If we go go the BES route there are options to equalise the cars.
A couple that come to mind:
1) Make the league mod a BOP mod where we test the cars and add ballast.
2) Make the whole league subject to weight penalties (like BTCC). So winners would get a little ballast, (eg P1 +30 kg, P2 +20KG,P3 +10 KG. people down the back say outside top 10 would lose some weight. This can be done quite easily in the server with setmass option.In this way the races and season would be tightened up a lot.

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

I've an other suggestion:

Drivers need to switch car per round. So no 2 rounds with the same car.
This equalize the differences between cars a bit.

Just an idea.

 

[Simon Christmann]

You mean e.g. 8 rounds 8 cars and you need to use each car?
Sounds interesting

 

[Matej Lakota]

Well, I am against that. Last time there were at least 7 different cars on the grid and I don˙t really care if my car is not the fastest (why car should be different than driver, slow me-slow car ), so forcing me to drive different car every next race? Me like not

 

[Tero Dahlberg]

I'm with @Matej Lakota on changing cars during season or from race to race. Not interested in that at all. Success ballast/weight penalties I'm perfectly okay with.

And like Matej I don't care if my car isn't fastest.

If we end up with BES I'll go with the Z4. I haven't even tested any of the other cars and I'm not planning to.
If we go with Fred's BOP'd ISI cars then I'll probably go with the C6.
I tested some Apex cars a long time a go and didn't really like them then. But need to test it again.

 

[David O'Reilly]

The swapping cars idea is innovative and unusual but if people wish to stick to their own car I for one understand that.

As plans are moving along and the first test race was successful with 15 drivers its probably the time to involve @Daiman Patel and to mention to @Howard that we are planning this league.
Howard the reason I have highlighted you is that recently you advised that all we need to do to to fulfill the RD league requirement of a stream is to advise the appropriate people.
As I am not staff and as it was you that made that assurance I would like to ask you to progress that side by passing this on to the appropriate person/persons.
Thanks

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

I'm with @Matej Lakota on changing cars during season or from race to race. Not interested in that at all. Success ballast/weight penalties I'm perfectly okay with.

And like Matej I don't care if my car isn't fastest.

If we end up with BES I'll go with the Z4. I haven't even tested any of the other cars and I'm not planning to.
If we go with Fred's BOP'd ISI cars then I'll probably go with the C6.
I tested some Apex cars a long time a go and didn't really like them then. But need to test it again.

The Apex cars are hurt by the not changeable diff settings. I did some work on them to integrate a diff and adjust the BOP a bit. The BMW Z4 with the diff available and adjusted engine settings and the latest Apex updates is one if not the best GT car in rF2. Exactly what you expect from a Z4 good downforce and very predictable and neutral handling. The original Apex Z4 is so annoying as it has untameable understeer.

In case you are interested in testing it drop me a PM. After the next Apex release I can share them. I am in contact with Apex. Maybe I can convince them to include these changes as they make the cars a lot more driveable ans believable.

 

[David O'Reilly]

I did an interesting exercise over the last few days.

I drove nearly all the BES cars at the Nordschleife 24 hr circuit to get a feel for them.

Results and comments:
1) Nissan GTR GT3. I have a nice setup for this car but wow, with a small error 8m44s## (or 8:42)
2) BMW Z4. Lovely out of the box. 8:54 then with very slight tweak to set 8m52s
3) Gallardo. Also lovely on defaults#. 2nd timed lap 8m54s#
4) Audi R8. Badly needed some setup. Once done 8m58s
5) Porsche 911 GT3*. Needed some setup. 8m58s
6) AMG SLS. On defaults 8m59s
7) Ferrari 458 On defaults 9m01s
8) Aston Martin. I gave up on this one. It was 10 trips to the garage for set up changes before I even left the GP circuit. For me it had unsolvable oversteer issues mid corner-corner exit.
9) Ferrari F430. wasn't nice and I didn't want to spend the time on setting it up.

Summary:
A bit too fast Nissan GTR
Really nice and fast out of the box (on defaults) Z4, Gallardo.
Nice but not as fast out of the box (on defaults). AMG SLS, Ferrari 458.
On the pace but a challenge: Porsche 911 GT3
## The error probably cost 2 seconds.
#On defaults so with some tweaks the Gallardo would equal the Z4.
* Unique rear engined feel.

BOP Conclusions:
With the R8, 911, AMG SLS and Ferrari 458 within a second or so I guess it would leave the Nissan needing some weight. The Z4 and Gallardo a little weight.

 

[Matej Lakota]

Agree, Nissan is waaay too strong in this competition. At Donnington I am easily a second faster than with any BES or AM car; at Silverstone it was 2 seconds gap

 

[elpolan]

Hello. I just see this post and I´m going to tell you my impressions. I drove the ferrari F458 from Apex modding in the past race in Donington. A car very easy to drive, you can go hard with the gas and the car go in the line. However, is one second slower than the Porsche and Z4 from Apex modding too. (Today i have made a test with only the cars of apex). The SLS is faster too but you must be carefull with gas. The others cars are slowest than SLS, Z4, and 997. So my list is (from fastest to slowest): SLS, Z4, 997, Camaro, C6, F458.

I am very interesting in a GT championship!!!

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

Hello. I just see this post and I´m going to tell you my impressions. I drove the ferrari F458 from Apex modding in the past race in Donington. A car very easy to drive, you can go hard with the gas and the car go in the line. However, is one second slower than the Porsche and Z4 from Apex modding too. (Today i have made a test with only the cars of apex). The SLS is faster too but you must be carefull with gas. The others cars are slowest than SLS, Z4, and 997. So my list is (from fastest to slowest): SLS, Z4, 997, Camaro, C6, F458.

I am very interesting in a GT championship!!!

The Ferrari will get more performance with the next update. Your list is not 100% correct at least on the tracks I tested. The SLS is a bit slower at least on a track with fast corners. The Porsche is very fast, but very hard to get the laptime out of it.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Thanks for that feedback @elpolan and for the information @Frederic Schornstein

Its interesting that with both the Apex and BES mods (from my impressions and test on Nordschleife that the Z4 is fast and well behaved, the 911 fast but needs to be tamed, the 458 well behaved and easy but somehow not quite as fast. Then a split decision on the SLS with myself (BES) and Freddy (Apex) finding SLS a bit like the 458, well behaved and similar pace. Javier finding it fast.
Not sure which version of the SLS @Gijs van Elderen drove at Donnington on Friday but he was fast in that one.

Javier, when you get the time your feelings on the BES cars would be welcome too.

Soon we might be able to make a table and ask a BOP expert (Freddy) to recommend ballast levels.

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

Not sure which version of the SLS @Gijs van Elderen drove at Donnington on Friday but he was fast in that one.

It was the APEX SLS.

Soon we might be able to make a table and ask a BOP expert (Freddy) to recommend ballast levels.

Some cars will be quicker on track A and others will be faster at Track B.
Some drivers will be quicker with car A, some will be quicker with car B. Some drivers are more consistent with Car C. Etc...

Just choose a car and have fun...

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

It was the APEX SLS.


Some cars will be quicker on track A and others will be faster at Track B.
Some drivers will be quicker with car A, some will be quicker with car B. Some drivers are more consistent with Car C. Etc...

Just choose a car and have fun...

Yep, the apex BOP works pretty good at least on the Nordschleife. I even had to make the SLS quicker to keep up with the Porsche so it could be down to the track as well. The Apex Modding Camaro always felt to slow for me that is why I made a seperate version.

The next Apex cars should be released shortly after that I am free to share my adjustments. The available diff settings help most of the Apex cars in terms of handling. Around the Nordschleife the cars are all within 1 second even without the corrections, but some are harder to drive and some are easier.

Havent kept track 100%, but are the BES and Apex cars equal on pace. If that is the case you could run all cars together which would be 8 Apex + ISI plus the BES cars.

If there is a diffrence in performance an easy way would be to have 1.5 or 2 hour races and simply adjust the pitstop times, so the quicker mod has to pit longer, that would create some interesting racing.

I have a sheet for these pitstop time calculations for the Apex cars.

 

[David O'Reilly]

It was the APEX SLS.


Some cars will be quicker on track A and others will be faster at Track B.
Some drivers will be quicker with car A, some will be quicker with car B. Some drivers are more consistent with Car C. Etc...

Just choose a car and have fun...

The only thing is Gijs is that the BOP ISI cars and Apex cars are roughly equal courtesy of the work Frederic has done.
EG all will do appr 8m40s at the Nordschliefe 24.
but
The BES cars (which personally I much prefer over the Apex versions) are significantly slower say 9m00s give or take a second. So +20 seconds. Except the BES Nissan which is virtually identical to the BOP Nissan. Matej also reported that at Silverstone and Donnington he was 2 sec faster in the Nissan.
The Z4 was 8m52 sec.

So IMO for a league we need to make a decision on BES or Apex.
If BES is involved (which I sincerely hope it will be) then the Nissan needs significant ballast and the Z4 probably a little.
I would like to drive the 911 but with no weight penalties applied if I want to be competitive I have to drive the Nissan. I'm not fast enough to give away 2 sec a lap!

So its my view that we will get more diversity and fairness if we deal with performance differences.

We could simply use setmass on the server. For example start the Nissan off with 50 kg, the Z4 with 20.
From there apply success ballast + or - and the whole grid will be continually brought closer together like in BTCC.

P1 +20kg
P2 +10kg
P10 and over -10kg

Then there is the ISI BOP cars which match the Apex cars in pace.

So I guess decision #1 is which mod/ mods.
Then we deal with a starting ballast where needed and adjust on results??

Havent kept track 100%, but are the BES and Apex cars equal on pace. If that is the case you could run all cars together which would be 8 Apex + ISI plus the BES cars.

No Frederic, they are definitely not.


Given all of the above complications a rational question is "why not just use Apex and ISI BOP?"
My reason is that I just LOVE the BES 911 GT3, and a few guys seem to like it and the Z4 too.

It would make little sense to have 2 versions of the same car in a race one guy in BES SLS another in Apex SLS for example. Just confusing if one is faster and beats the other.

 

[Miroslav Davidovic]

Viper FTW!