How Many Races will Max Win in 2023?

[Antony Snook]

It is the mid season break and this is the the statistics for Max Verstappen based on finishing position. I believe the car will slow down in the closing stages as he took a grid drop for a gearbox #5 and you can only use 4 in a season. You cant run a gearbox half a season, well you could but it would be tough if it lasts. As you can see hes had a 2 2nd place and worst finish of 3rd. Puting him on the podeom for all races. And i see the other teams Alpine, Mercedes and McLaren may catch up in closing stages.

Max Verstappen​

1​

2​

1​

3​

2​

1​

1​

1​

1​

1​

1​

1​

1​

 

[bi11y]

I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make?

Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve are not top talents. you talk unclearly about number #1 and #2 at Redbull, Verstappen will always be number 1 because

Sorry I'm off topic about Max's wins - that is the most important thing for this thread and this season.

My point is regarding the performance of the RedBull, and somewhat that Perez's performance is dulled by the fact that he is the #2 driver and doesn't have the most support of the team. This affect is in technical aspects such as having best engineers on setups, priority for run times etc and also psychological because the Red Bull management seem to have a toxic culture toward second driver...

Replace Max Verstappen (pop into Riccardo's waiting seat this year) and then the #1 Red Bull car would probably be winning the title with almost any driver is the point. In this scenaro if you had Tsunoda in the 2nd car and the team focussed on Checo - I think it's 80% or more that he would be more consistent and winning the title.

If you have a time machine and drop Max into the Williams in 96 and 97 in place of the #1 driver (not racing against them) he would win the title because they were the best car.

Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve are not regarded as top talents but both won the title with the team support as a #1 driver - it the time machine took them from 96 or 97 and put them in place of Verstappen they would be easily be winning the title.

the season is depressing for you?

Yep, I just find it so much less exciting that other racing series, and I feel like the direction of the sport is just all sort of a mess. Inconsistent stewarding, tyres, track limits, regulation mistakes that take 5 or 6 years to try to 'fix' but then they are a mistake again so lets stick with it for another 4 years.

The sport is broken and it's currently a parade to demonstrate that Red Bull are the best - ironically it seems they have most of the best staff and I'm not sure the spending cheating is that significant in the their domination. However it's 100% that they broke major the rules and I think they should have at least one season of constructors stripped as McLaren were in 2007.

May I ask which team is your favourite?

Tough call don't really have one favourite - it's a really close call between my favourite teams: McLaren, Alfa Romeo, Williams, Aston Martin, Alpine, and HAAS.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

From Montoya:

"Right now Verstappen is doing a very good job, but he looks just as invincible as when Hamilton was winning everything, that’s the reality.

Max is a very good driver, but so far in the best car. Max’s speed right now is no better than Max’s speed two years ago, it’s probably the same.

If you take Max out of that car, there are about seven or eight drivers who could be world champions in that car. If he were not there, but Checo, Hamilton, Sainz, Leclerc, they would be world champion.”

Montoya also called out Lewis Hamilton, who won six of his seven world championship during a period of Mercedes dominance between 2014-2020, over his recent complaints about Red Bull’s supremacy.

"It's very cool to complain when you don't win, but when Lewis won he said that the car didn't give him any advantage. Actually, Mercedes' advantage was as big as what Red Bull currently has," he added.

 

[muzikant]

what a complain... it was once crash stappen and immature child and skysports F1 biggest fear!! that they even spent a bad christmas joke try to break him and now they are making up stuff again.

It also lasted 7 seasons with the silver cars and I didn't like that either. They were even more dominant because they were the only with the party mode in qualification. The rest just have to build a better car! Thats how it works for 80 years in F1

you can fantasize what you want and get everything. this is how it works... The other big teams with the same big, big, budget also have a lot of talent in the garage, at RB a few have also left this year to other teams... it's a trade-off as long as this sport exists. But then again I think if everyone would drive the same RB, there is still a good chance that Verstappen will win, maybe Piastri, Norris, Leclerc (whom I always rate highly but doesn't seem to be happy with Ferarri... But are they mentally strong to drive for the title??? No one knows. Because you have to be there! Lewis and Verstappen have already proven that. I doubt that. Max is now at a very high level in his career that everything is gold together with the experience he has and yes he has a good car but Perez has that too, even if Perez had now been a hundred points ahead, would he not be supported by RB? But every year he is well beaten by Verstappen with big points. That are facts

 

[muzikant]

From Montoya:

"Right now Verstappen is doing a very good job, but he looks just as invincible as when Hamilton was winning everything, that’s the reality.

Max is a very good driver, but so far in the best car. Max’s speed right now is no better than Max’s speed two years ago, it’s probably the same.

If you take Max out of that car, there are about seven or eight drivers who could be world champions in that car. If he were not there, but Checo, Hamilton, Sainz, Leclerc, they would be world champion.”

Montoya also called out Lewis Hamilton, who won six of his seven world championship during a period of Mercedes dominance between 2014-2020, over his recent complaints about Red Bull’s supremacy.

"It's very cool to complain when you don't win, but when Lewis won he said that the car didn't give him any advantage. Actually, Mercedes' advantage was as big as what Red Bull currently has," he added.

you have good points Fat but the most important thing I already wrote my post.. Hamilton had that 50 hp more in qualifying that I already wrote. in addition to the speed they had A very important difference because the other teams didn't have this! Maybe Montoya forget this point

and Bottas was certainly not Rosberg or Perez in speed.
So the same? No!

 

[Fat-Alfie]

I don't really see your point. RB have better aerodynamics, but no-one says that is unfair. Merc had more power, and that wasn't unfair at the time, but lots of people cried that it was cheating. Should RB be forced to simply their floor design? No - they did the best job of designing it and now they reap the rewards.

It's always been the case that some teams develop strengths in their cars in different areas to other teams. Everyone is free to design them how they think is best. If one team is able to switch their tyres on more effectively, or has more BHP, or has a better aero package, fair enough. But you can't expect to be taken seriously if you cry like a baby when Mercedes had an engine advantage and Hamilton wins everything, but go quiet when RB have an aero advantage and simply claim that it is verstappen that makes the car go faster. That's just nonsense and laughable.

The point that @bi11y was making, and now also Montoya (and many others, too) is that the RB is the fastest car on the grid, by a long way, and that if verstappen wasn't driving it, many other drivers would have won the WDC if they had been the #1 driver, as has always been the way in F1.

 

[muzikant]

I don't really see your point. RB have better aerodynamics, but no-one says that is unfair. Merc had more power, and that wasn't unfair at the time, but lots of people cried that it was cheating. Should RB be forced to simply their floor design? No - they did the best job of designing it and now they reap the rewards.

It's always been the case that some teams develop strengths in their cars in different areas to other teams. Everyone is free to design them how they think is best. If one team is able to switch their tyres on more effectively, or has more BHP, or has a better aero package, fair enough. But you can't expect to be taken seriously if you cry like a baby when Mercedes had an engine advantage and Hamilton wins everything, but go quiet when RB have an aero advantage and simply claim that it is verstappen that makes the car go faster. That's just nonsense and laughable.

The point that @bi11y was making, and now also Montoya (and many others, too) is that the RB is the fastest car on the grid, by a long way, and that if verstappen wasn't driving it, many other drivers would have won the WDC if they had been the #1 driver, as has always been the way in F1.

You read completely different F1 news than I do

and I know you're not a fan of Verstappen at all and that's fine. but at the moment he is unbeatable.

 

[Pete Conway]

You two guys are both right and should have a beer together, you both acknowledge that the RB19 is the best car and 'certain' others could win the championship in Verstappens place, but in Checo's seat you hold a slightly different opinion on just how good Max is, that's understandable because we all hold different views, for example I see Leclerc as fast but overrated, and it would be a hell-of-a battle were Hamilton in Checo's seat.
As for Montoya, he's a champion that F1 sadly missed having because Montoya and Politics didn't mix, I rate his time in F1, and I just kinda wish he's go for a top drive a Lemans... a win there would give him the Triple Crown along with Graham Hill.

 

[muzikant]

You two guys are both right and should have a beer together, you both acknowledge that the RB19 is the best car and 'certain' others could win the championship in Verstappens place, but in Checo's seat you hold a slightly different opinion on just how good Max is, that's understandable because we all hold different views, for example I see Leclerc as fast but overrated, and it would be a hell-of-a battle were Hamilton in Checo's seat.
As for Montoya, he's a champion that F1 sadly missed having because Montoya and Politics didn't mix, I rate his time in F1, and I just kinda wish he's go for a top drive a Lemans... a win there would give him the Triple Crown along with Graham Hill.

Leclerc is probably faster over one lap than Verstappen. the 2 were rivals in the go kart Charles father passed away when he was young.. that made it a bit difficult for him. his father helped him race. at Ferrari he just seems out of place. he also seems to be a bit impatient restless.. but I don't write him off. Especially if he regains balance in his life. It must also be said that Horner and Max's manager Raymond Vermeulen offer that peace more with Max

 

[BillyBobSenna]

Is anyone like me and not even really looking forward to the resumption of the season? I will certainly watch the races however it not like I am counting the weeks or days. Very different from past seasons.

 

[muzikant]

Is anyone like me and not even really looking forward to the resumption of the season? I will certainly watch the races however it not like I am counting the weeks or days. Very different from past seasons.

it just depends on which team you support... I'm really enjoying Verstappen at the moment

 

[Fat-Alfie]

How are you not bored, in the same way you were when the Mercedes was winning everything? You complained about that situation almost constantly, saying the the victories were hollow and valueless.

How is the currect situation any different?

 

[muzikant]

How are you not bored, in the same way you were when the Mercedes was winning everything? You complained about that situation almost constantly, saying the the victories were hollow and valueless.

How is the currect situation any different?

mercedes has had that for 7 seasons. this is in fact only the second season that Verstappen has been dominant. so check back in five years. And what I rightly complained about was the party mode that the other teams didn't have

 

[BillyBobSenna]

mercedes has had that for 7 seasons. this is in fact only the second season that Verstappen has been dominant. so check back in five years. And what I rightly complained about was the party mode that the other teams didn't have

I didn’t like it when the MB was dominating. 2023 is different in that it is one driver. Assuming 2023 continues has it started, this will be the most lopsided championship in F1 history.

 

[muzikant]

I didn’t like it when the MB was dominating. 2023 is different in that it is one driver. Assuming 2023 continues has it started, this will be the most lopsided championship in F1 history.

what nonsense Perez also drives a RB but he has no chance against Verstappen. is that Verstappen's fault? is it RB's fault the others built a **** car?

and you say 2023 is different because it is one driver.... I had to laugh a lot about that, was it not the case with Mercedes

 

[Fat-Alfie]

It really is a waste of time trying to have a rational discussion with you... I give up

 

[muzikant]

the verstappen nonsense stories are a waste

 

[bi11y]

You read completely different F1 news than I do

and I know you're not a fan of Verstappen at all and that's fine. but at the moment he is unbeatable.

He is unstoppable but the amount of that unstoppable-from team skill, team-over-spending, and sport politics is considerable. These extra factors often come into play somewhat in many seasons but in the end the driver and the skill is needed to finish the job. It's just that it feels like the "dice are loaded" more than I've ever seen before...

Is anyone like me and not even really looking forward to the resumption of the season? I will certainly watch the races however it not like I am counting the weeks or days. Very different from past seasons.

Yep, I can't remember ever caring less about upcoming races.

I have tickets to two races and kinda don't want to go. It will be cool to see a new circuit I haven't been before but I feel nervous of being disinterested and annoyed with the show. I don't like how the sport is managed over recent seasons and I'd prefer to not pay the money to support it but my wife is a big fan. happy wife happy life I guess.

 

[muzikant]

He is unstoppable but the amount of that unstoppable-from team skill, team-over-spending, and sport politics is considerable. These extra factors often come into play somewhat in many seasons but in the end the driver and the skill is needed to finish the job. It's just that it feels like the "dice are loaded" more than I've ever seen before...

Yep, I can't remember ever caring less about upcoming races.

I have tickets to two races and kinda don't want to go. It will be cool to see a new circuit I haven't been before but I feel nervous of being disinterested and annoyed with the show. I don't like how the sport is managed over recent seasons and I'd prefer to not pay the money to support it but my wife is a big fan. happy wife happy life I guess.

yes the sports politics is indeed significant and 90% comes from the same skysport. Tall trees catch a lot of wind (verstappen)some people have trouble with Verstappen and Fat is one of them never seen him make a compliment.
In the end, what matters is what happens on Sunday

 

[Pete Conway]

I do understand that some of you guys are peeved, but I won't say no one wants to see complete domination by one team over a season because many do, the viewership of F1 races is at it's highest, and record numbers of fans people flock to the circuits to see the advantage of the Red Bull and spectacle of these hyper behemoths in action, but only by refusing to pay for the sport, and or refusing to press the button on your remote that selects F1 races will your voices be heard (if there's enough of you)

Though I am more interested in F1 now than I was 5-6 years ago it holds nothing to the excitement I felt in the 70's and 80's, though that was pale in comparison to the very brief screen time I enjoyed watching the 'Wendy Wools' special saloons and the very seldom Can Am screenings.
I can't see F1 ever going back to the good old days because... money