HOLY Shamolee - The Long Requested / Buttkicker Gamer 2 / Simhub Tactile Effects Thread

[Mr Latte]

I've been asked for a long time to do a thread on one of the most popular ever tactile transducers.
To this day the Buttkicker Gamer 2 is one of the most considered entry-level packages.

​

The CURSE OF TACTILE:
As tactile becomes a REAL headache of a topic.

First off, I'm going to simply request that this thread is for discussion only of using the Buttkicker Gamer product line.
This way all users are on the same hardware. It's not, to talk about tactile in general, it's not to talk about other models of Buttkicker or different makes of units and different models or using different amps etc.

Keeping It Simple Guys
So let's focus on and talk about using "Simhub" and getting started with effects creation/tuning for the BK Gamer & BK Gamer 2 models
My hope is people will benefit and learn from this, owners will get involved. People will start to share their own effects, discuss issues, configurations ask questions. I will help what I can and for those that are new to this and using a single shaker or indeed the more advanced users with multiple sets of units installed.


Getting Started:
Tactile when it's working nice can be a great addition but it can also be a troublesome one as these and many threads show regards setting up, configuring, and how to come up with nice working effects. I will continue to update this thread in time with images/info on getting started but I think we have a fair few that are already using and familiar with the software.

(Info on Amp & Soundcard Settings To be Added)
(Info on Windows/Software Settings To Be Added)
(Images for break down on mentioned factors, Master Volume / Effect Folders / Effect Layers)


Featured Effects - Lets SHARE!
Here is my own effects submission, as my first test effects based on ACC and The Ferrari 488GT3
I used this car for creating the files as I had previous effects testing done with this.

My advice is if checking out the effects try them on that sim/car.
People will likely use shared effects for other cars and sims too and that can vary how well or suitable the effects are but for feedback.
I would suggest relating to how effects feel with the car/sim they are created on. To me, this makes sense if someone else creates/shares their own sets to mention what sim/car was used.



What I attempted to do with this set was to bring more to the immersion than an individual or typically used tones have.
Yet also with the intent to make things easy and keep down the number of layers an effect uses. This way we can get more variation in the possible feel and personalize the felt sensations.

• As a baseline, these are not bad, better is possible with more layers but this being mostly aimed at beginners to tactile
• I want to make it easier to start feeling or learning how we can achieve nice felt sensations
• Simple advice, stick to altering just the volumes and not things in each layer's settings if you are not aware of how/what they do
• In some scenarios with combinations of effects, even a single Hz change can alter how the layers of different effects work together or feel
• This can be covered if the thread is a success and then we could start looking deeper into each effect's primary settings

Balancing Frequencies
With each effect, I have them simply labeled for easy discussion and in their own folder.

• Within each folder, I have set out 3 layers for most effects
• This enables altering the volume of individual layers to adjust the feel of that effect
• Try each layer on its own, learn what it does/how it feels then set a general volume
• Do the same for all effects, then fine-tune the volume for each effect folder, to balance the mix for all effects
• Test and tweak, different cars or sims can vary even with the same settings

Same Effects / Very Different Feel
You can create a volume balance that is more towards the engine or chassis feel depending on what you like. It's also possible to create a volume mix for both scenarios and save these as individual profiles to then use/load as you please.

We all may differ in what, we prefer to represent sensations for different effects, so I welcome others to get involved too.
Personally, I think it's better to use more balanced volumes or try to limit the effects used. Even this set the Engine/Speed effects to keep a single unit busy and make it harder to feel other effects.

These effects have perhaps some potential for easier enjoyment in getting started but the may need better-balanced volume settings
See what you think and feel free to comment or indeed highlight issues.



How To Use:
Simhub can be found HERE
My efforts being shared are like an unofficial help/guidance I am no way associated with the software or its developer. I recommend this incredible software as it is the best option now available for tactile and with many other uses/features. So please consider giving its developer a kind donation.

I strongly recommend also reading any official documentation that is given to get a grasp of how to use it.​

NOTICE: The attached set of effects is not to represent ideal/perfect settings but as a starter for people to use and give feedback. If people get involved and offer feedback or share their own effects then I will help with sharing other effects more to what people may want.

My Attached Profile:
*Download File, place it in Docs/Simhub folder and rename from ".txt" to ".siprofile" for it to work as a profile
You should then be able to import it into Simhub.

 

[DrRob]

Cheers mate, will test tomorrow and give feedback.

 

[Robert Bachmayer]

Cool, thanks for this, will try as soon as I can.

 

[Fi22le]

OK. I had a very quick try of your file Mr Latte. Thanks.

Please note: I don't have ACC, so I tested with AMS2 (the only sim I am playing atm).

Overall -I really like what you've done, and I will use this file as a foundation for a tweaked version.

I had to turn down the gain for Speed and Road Vibrations as they were causing the clipping light on my BK amp to constantly flash. I also had to up the efects for gear change as I couldn't really feel anything.

One thing I intend to add is Road Rumble. I love the haptic reward of hitting an apex or exit point perfectly -I'd be interested in your thoughts on this...

A couple of things (I'm very new to this, so forgive my ignorance):

I notice that some of the effects are set as 'Front/Rear' -I assumed that with a single BK, all effects should be mono?

Initially I couldn't get any output from your file, I found that unchecking the 'Use Seperate Output' box allowed the effect to work. I'm not quite sure what this is for in Simhub.

Thanks very much for your efforts with this!

 

[DrRob]

I had a quick go in my lunch break. ;-) So just a few pointers, I will test more.
Overall there was a tad much happening simultaneously (in my eyes).
I am using the McLaren 720GT3 not the Ferrari GT3, not sure that matters. (EDIT: Overlooked that part in your initial post, sorry)
Love the gear shift effect!
Road effects would be too intense for my taste, less might be more here.
Undecided about the Speed effect.

Also I have some questions :

• What does the Wheelslip do exactly as it felt as another road effect? I thought to apply this as an indication of real wheel slip, i.e. the wheels loose grip. Wrong?
• For a mono-setup do I have to deactivate "use separate output channels" and/or do I have to select "Mono" under mode? If I loaded your profile as it was not much happened tbh.
• What is it that RPM should emulate? I was kind of strange to have another low frequency effect at redlining.

Thanks again for sharing, very intersting to "feel" other peoples interpretation / concept of tactile effects!
Overall I already feel that multiple transducers would be so much better to replicate all of your effects.

 

[Mr Latte]

@Fi22le

Quick note:
As stated, it's best to familiarise yourself with how to use the software and that includes mapping effects to the tactile or multiple tactile a person may have. My advice in settings is based on using ACC and for "feedback" its easier if people use that and the car (yes it can vary the output). This was made clear in the first post.

Of course, people will use this for different sims but it would be too much to start trying to cover what settings suit every sim or respond to users queries from other sims. So in respect of that to keep things simple regards "configuration" or "feedback" I will focus on factors from ACC being used. We need a "single baseline" to use for genreral feedback as the effects were created/used with a specific car/combo and I can then relate back users feedback/issues to this.

I will update the first post with settings on the amp for ACC in the near future. As stated different sims will vary so I recommend keeping the master volume to 50-60% and then set the volume on the amp to suit. I am waiting to receive a BKG2 amp from a forum member who has kindly sent me one and I wanted to put his kindness to use with this thread.


As for "Front Rear"
Yes why have that on a single unit, good question....

Users could compare this to just using Mono. I have not looked into detail every single option offers but I went for front/rear as lots of people add a BK to pedals. * We can adapt this if wanted so that we could have individual layers for "Front" / "Rear" "Left / Right" or "4 Corners" One thing to factor in using "Front/Rear" is that if we have (add) individual layers then we can determine the feel/volume each action of the car represents, yes even though only a single BK is being used to generate it.

With the current setting, the telemetry will act "I presume" different for the "Front-Rear". I have not looked to compare how differently "Mono" operates, other than it may take an average of the telemetry output from each wheel? See if you guys prefer or feel much difference?

It will be interesting to see with ACC and other sims what settings in volumes other people end up using.
I advise trying each layer and effect for what it brings, if trying to use all then it will need careful balancing of the volumes.

This is good for me and everyone to learn and better understand to see if we find people's settings/varies much, but this also has a lot to do with installations, materials in seats/rigs and user preferences.


@DrRob will respond later, thanks for notice on issues, we can update fix this later if needed.

Can you try setting soundcard in Simhub to "custom channel map" and then try the effect again with "use separate output channels"
This will offer more channels from the soundcard and then determine what channel operates a users 1,2,3,4 etc Buttkickers.

 

[Mr Latte]

I can edit/alter the file shared to make it operate only as a mono for people with just a single unit, if its an issue.
The alternative is to set the following mode then use the "test" feature to determine what channel your BK unit(s) are installed.


Notice I have "custom channel mapping" selected and my current shared file is set to work in that mode.
All users need to do is determine what channels 1-6 or 1-8 based on the soundcard used is the one that the BK unit(s) are connected to.

Does this help?

 

[DrRob]

Ok, did a second run with the Ferrari and used Paul Ricard in ACC.
I changed my setup from "mono" to "Custom Chanel map".
I deactivated all effects of Channel 3 and 4, since I have only 2 channels available.
I switched all Rear effects to Channel 2. This is different from what you suggested though but should work.
No BK Gamer, but Aura with stereo Nobsound amp.

I did not change any detailled effects variables but played only with volumes to suit my taste.
I still feel there is too much going on at the same time.
I deactivated "Speed" altogether and disabled some "Wheel Slip" to get the indication I want.

Not sure I did sacrilege here.

[EDIT] What I still miss are short hammerblow like thuds when going over kerbs.

 

[Mr Latte]

If you have "Aura Pro", then well its clear this thread is for commenting on the BK Gamer, so I do not want to go into covering various models of units here.
I want to establish from BK Gamer owners what settings they would use with this "test set" used with the intended car and sim. Then to share with others their own profiles and/or learn what settings they enjoy these samples with.

The BK Mini operate similarly but it has been long debated that the BK Gamer brings more energy (mechanical multiplier as leverage with the clamp).
That being said, I am aware people will follow this thread that has other tactile, so I can only advise on things I do to help balance multiple effects working.

• Run one effect at a time to determine what volume level you think suits your preference
• Understand better how/what each layer represents
• Determine what effects you prefer to use together or not use at all
• Tweak the balance of volumes for each of the effects you want to use together

Speed & RPM are the most consistent so turning one of those off will help reduce the workload on the units
The reason for individual layers for effects like Bumps/Wheelslip is because I see this as a better approach than a single layer to represent the operation of an effect. It is also to help achieve more variation in its feel. These 1-3 layers will activate with different levels of telemetry data, so some are more sensitive and others will only operate with higher telemetry values. The intention is then to use frequencies that can relate/reflect each layer for small-larger activity.

Most budget tactile units will be strongest with frequencies in the 40Hz - 50Hz range.
You say you need more punch from bumps, then increase the layer volumes and in particular "No.2" for the "medium-large" bumps.
It uses 40Hz - 50Hz for that very reason.


Some layers using below 30Hz or 20Hz will not have much energy on units like the Aura Pro.
Shakers like the BKGamer and larger models are better with those.

It may be we need to increase the Hz for those layers but they use the current settings for a reason to help establish what are the lowest frequencies we can use for these effects to get a decent feel from them. BK rate these as operating within 5Hz - 250Hz. We are going to discover the true range they work best with. This will be part of the experiment and things we can learn based on several users feedback or with different installations.

 

[DrRob]

Thanks for the feedback. Will fiddle some more.
Didn't want to dilute this thread.
I have a I-Beam VT200 / Reckhorn A-401 for different purposes and know how good the larger units are. The Aura really surprised me with its low frequency capabilities considering the budget, size and power. The BK Gamer is nowhere near the Aura, my brother has a BK Gamer, so I know the performance gap.
Makes sense to tailor make a profile for the BK Gamer.

 

[Mr Latte]

Not getting involved in comparisons here but to do such you need to do 1-1 tests.
I would say, something is wrong if you proclaim that the BK Gamer is nowhere near the Aura.

Some people may have both on the same rig and can give their views but I have plans to do video tests in the future recorded at 240 frames per second to visually show some units operation at different frequencies. You can already find old videos on YT that seem to show the BK to be punchier with lower frequencies.

 

[DrRob]

Not getting involved in comparisons here but to do such you need to do 1-1 tests.
I would say, something is wrong if you proclaim that the BK Gamer is nowhere near the Aura.

Some people may have both on the same rig and can give their views but I have plans to do video tests in the future recorded at 240 frames per second to visually show some units operation at different frequencies. You can already find old videos on YT that seem to show the BK to be punchier with lower frequencies.

Fair enough. Maybe also a setup thing. But at leat my impression was that the BK Gamer is less powerful (maybe limited by the amp and clipping) and less precise than the Aura.
I may be wrong though, true. So far happy with my setup and really thankful for your base profile! Further tweaked it to my liking and to suit my go-to car, the McLaren 720GT3.
Really improved my experience a lot! I hope others will find this similarly helpful and useful.
Kudos to you for the effort.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hey, no probs, settings can be tweaked based on feedback more files will be shared/created if people discuss what they want or express what they would like changed. It's not all about what I share or do neither so I look forward to others offering their own perspectives or ideas for effects.

 

[brasstacks]

Here is my current profile. Will test mr. Latte's file later this week and take what I like.

Setup
Project Cars 2
Formula Renault 3.5r
Brands Hatch
Butt Kicker Advanced
Inuke1000

 

[ShinyAndy]

I'm keen to try these setups but I'm curious (or missing something) but how do you know where to set the volume on the BKG2 amp? When you power up each time it resets the volume to zero and it's a digital multi click to get anything. My racing is 100% online with AC and the startup routine generally involves a rushed switching everything on, clicking volume up 20times(ish) and praying. This normally results in the amp shutting down after 5 mins because it's been clipping like crazy. Is there a more elegant solution?!

 

[Britishteeth]

I'm keen to try these setups but I'm curious (or missing something) but how do you know where to set the volume on the BKG2 amp? When you power up each time it resets the volume to zero and it's a digital multi click to get anything. My racing is 100% online with AC and the startup routine generally involves a rushed switching everything on, clicking volume up 20times(ish) and praying. This normally results in the amp shutting down after 5 mins because it's been clipping like crazy. Is there a more elegant solution?!

I've written down the number of times I need to press 'up' on the volume upon start up depending on the sim. Such a pain in the butt (kicker).

Thank you for the work on these settings - I'm going to give them a run this evening with a single BKG2 unit and I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[Britishteeth]

[EDIT] What I still miss are short hammerblow like thuds when going over kerbs.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong - but I was under the impression there was no physics data being sent from ACC for kerb vibration - only the movement of the suspension - so if the kerb is actually modelled as a flat surface, you just get the clunk of going onto and off the kerb - not the vibration while rising it.

Like I said - could be wrong - I'm very new to TI.

 

[DrRob]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong - but I was under the impression there was no physics data being sent from ACC for kerb vibration - only the movement of the suspension - so if the kerb is actually modelled as a flat surface, you just get the clunk of going onto and off the kerb - not the vibration while rising it.

Like I said - could be wrong - I'm very new to TI.

Good shout! Actually I do not know either, but this would explain the rather subtle kerb representation from the tactile setup. I was watching the side-by-side video from James Baldwin and the noticed differences in sound aka audible noises from the car. Thought that the kerb sound was pretty nice. Me want!

 

[Mr Latte]

Here is my current profile. Will test mr. Latte's file later this week and take what I like.

Setup
Project Cars 2
Formula Renault 3.5r
Brands Hatch
Butt Kicker Advanced
Inuke1000

Just to point out, the profile shared is only a reference-test for people to get up and running with some effects, discuss what they may want to change, etc. it's not what I use.

 

[Mr Latte]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong - but I was under the impression there was no physics data being sent from ACC for kerb vibration - only the movement of the suspension - so if the kerb is actually modelled as a flat surface, you just get the clunk of going onto and off the kerb - not the vibration while rising it.

Like I said - could be wrong - I'm very new to TI.

Below is in reference to ACC with some little gems of info


ACC or Simhub
So, in looking closer at ACC suspension recently by monitoring the Simhub (soundcard channel) output signals for the transducers.
I don't see a major issue with its responses/activity on most kerbs .


Limitation Of Single Effect Response/Representation?

Is a single layer effect enough?

To me, there can be an arrangement in variety for different bumps and these need more variation to represent.
soft - light / sharp - course / deeper - rounded feelings. A single repeated or basic tone layer is not going to accomplish all these.

You can apply higher "Gamma Factor" in the response curve which appears to give faster activity and I see that ideal for applying to smaller bumps with higher frequencies. Note that, Hz = cycles per second so, for instance, 60Hz-70Hz may help with saw kerbs. Too high and it will sound bad and have little energy. Also, try if you want to add "Gain Modulation" as that may help hold/sustain the feeling from saw curbs at speed (very fast sequence) in helping reduce the gain rising/falling quickly with each response.

The user can by all means, then use different settings and frequencies for additional layers to suit different or larger bumps and some tracks have very different arrangements of kerbs which will vary in how the suspension is affected. This approach can help to get more variation in the sensations as the output to each corner is not always the same.

The main issue is that ACC does not produce the best stereo separation for L/R effects as its activity from each wheel often (not always) has a fair bit of energy on the opposite channel. So it's not always like a left kerb only activates the left wheel. Watch a replay in slow motion to see how much sometimes the whole car moves based on its suspension.

It must be more an internal thing with the sim rather than Simhub as even this sims actual audio output of L/R wheels for kerbs does not produce the best stereo separation either. I need to look into this more to see if it varies much with different cars. ACC is less varied here anyways but in some titles you may find the stereo separation better with certain types of cars.


Road Impacts
As another effect that is available. I personally use these to represent more a (vertical surge) of the cars chassis/not suspension. So I give this a bubble type, deeper/floatier response with a lot of gain modulation and delay. The problem with small tactile and units like the Gamer is the feel/response we get for example if using 3Hz-15Hz (on budget tactile) is nothing like how that will feel on the larger BK that can properly produce its energy better. So impacts can be active similarly like the suspension but I also use it with a lot of response curve "Threshold" control. This way, only the biggest bumps come through for this effect and it becomes complementary to the suspension not fighting with it

I think a lot of people are unsure how to use this but to me separating what determines individual "suspension" (directional) output and a central mono output regards the cars "chassis" (non-directional) is a good approach to consider.


Lateral G-Forces / Custom Effect By Romainrob
While not a default effect, it is possible to get a bump activity/response also from steering based G-Forces but I look at this similar to affecting the whole/cars chassis and one that can work with other effects to improve the overall immersion but this suits installations with more transducers being used.

I recommend actually that people also find Romainrobs profiles on the Discord channel and try some of the excellent work on "custom" effects he has done.


What feels good, well much of that, may also be down to user preferences....
This is one reason why its nice to see what others do for effects.