Highs and lows of VR and Fanatec stuff, definitely a love / hate relationship

[Lesthegringo]

Another day with my rig, and another day of fantastic fun and racing punctuated by periods of frustration and bewilderment.

Yesterday we had a few people round for drinks and a social, but part of it was for the guys to have a bash on my rig. Well, that was the idea anyway. In the end, only two of them got to have a go, both absolutely raving about the experience. The other two couldn't use it because of the bizarre, irritating recurring issues that plague the rig.

For reference I was using Automoobilista 2, using Steam VR mode on an i9 Win 10 desktop, with a 3070 GTX with 32Gb Ram. This then connects to a Reverb G2 headset, Fanatec V3 pedals, a Fanatec DD wheelbase with the 8Nm power supply and a Formula wheel, with a NLR V3 seat mover

To start with, there's the Reverb G2 issues, where sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't. Yesterday, it took me abot an hour of unplugging, resetting, reconnecting, closing Windows mixed reality repeatedly as it would open immediately after it was closed....

Then when I did get it to open, the AMS2 screen would appear right at the bottom of the view, and sometimes the recentering works, sometimes not.

Then finally I got it working and on went friend number 1, who proceeded to pound round Interlagos (he's brazilian) for the next hour. We left him to it, and after his extended go, he came downstairs to let one of the others have a go, and absolutely raved about it. So after doing nothing more than going back to the pits and taking off the headset, it stopped working. Strange artefacts on the screen, the desktop having flashing areas, no possibility of clicking on anything, so CTRL-ALT-DEL and force everything closed. Still no full resolution, so restart the PC.

After the restart, go through the unplug / replug dance, and finally friend number 2 is having a go. He's on there for half an hour or so before he comes down to let the next guy on, except here we go again, the fragility of the G2 meaning we have to do the restart procedure again.

But this time, now the Fanatec DD and pedals are no longer recognised by Windows, Fanalabs has the 'no device detected' message and everything is greyed out. This time I could not resurrect it, and we abandoned it.

Today, I had to reinstall all the firmware for the Fanatec gear so that Windows could recognise it all. Of course, all the settings and profiles are erased so I have to do all that setup again. This is not an isolated case, the same would happen with the CSL Elite wheelbase before it too. How did the firmware suddenly become null when it was working for hours previously?

When it all works, I absolutely love it, the interaction with the rig with the NLR V3 seat mover and the VR is fantastic. The problem is that out of every hour I spend on the rig, at least half that time is spent trying to fix the *(^%&* thing.

Windows updates I'm sure have to hold their hands up as contributory factors; however the sheer fragility of the Fanatec stuff and HP Reverb G2 systems has me pulling my hair out. For such mass produced consumer stuff to be so repetitively problematic is just appalling, you would have thought that they could make them more robust in terms of their function.

I don't want this to just be a rant (although that is what it largely is) so I want to know if anyone has any advice on trying to get the parts of the system to be more bug resistant, whether there are any bits of software that should be used, or should not be used to avoid confilcts..... basically help in trying to improve the fix versus use ratio

Cheers

Les

 

[RCHeliguy]

Once you have Windows sorted, I would look at how everything is connected.

I'm running EVERYTHING through this USB hub and it has been ultra reliable.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NGQWL2/

That is using 9 ports supporting separate USB ports for every device from my rig that I have.

Not including keyboard, mouse, VR headset etc..

I'm surprised about the NLRv3. I used mine for about 3.5 years and had ZERO issues with it. It always worked flawlessly no matter how long I used it and was one of the most reliable bits of hardware on my rig.

The only issue I'm aware of is that if you are running higher load cell brake pressures it can be overpowered and disable itself. Unfortunately even if you are only running 30 kg of pressure, if you bottom out and keep pressing, you can still push past its limits.

 

[Lesthegringo]

Thanks for the reply

Actually, the NLR V3 has been the most reliable of the components with only squeaking bearings as the minor issue

The issues I have are almost all with the HP G2 and Fanatec stuff

With regard to the USB connections, while in Race Sim rig mode there are actually not that many USB connections, and most plug directly into the motherboard; I have a PCI USB card for the remainder. All USB 3 connections go to the motherboard, with the Bodnar connected homemade gearshift going to the PCI card. The Bodnar cards in my experience have been bombproof

So the two unreliable parts of the system are the Fanatec components and HP Reverb G2. The Fanatec stuff admittedly give fewer issues than the G2, but still more than enough occasions that I have to go through a complete disconnect / reconnect routine, and occasionally have to revert to the firmware reflash.

Cheers

Les

 

[GeekyDeaks]

I have experienced a few USB quirks in the past. I took a different approach to Mark and ended up making sure everything had a direct connection to the PC with a USB version that matched, so no USB2 devices in a USB3 port. Due to the number of devices I had, this required exposing the spare USB headers on the motherboard with something like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00015Y0FK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I did consider the hub approach as I know others for whom it worked well, but I already had the USB plate to hand.

Then when I did get it to open, the AMS2 screen would appear right at the bottom of the view, and sometimes the recentering works, sometimes not.

I have the G1, but I experience the same thing almost every time I start up my PC. It seems to happen when the tracking of the headset switches from 3DOF to 6DOF. Resetting the seating position in the WMR settings usually sorts it out for me. I also found that if the steam VR window is at the front and I accidentally click on it whilst navigating menus in AMS2, I can no longer recenter via AMS2 until I give focus back to AMS2. I tend to start AMS2, then minimise the SteamVR window to avoid this happening.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

I just doubled checked my G1 connection and it's in a blue USB3 port not the red one (3.2). Not sure if that helps much.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I do remember very occasionally having a Fanatec driver issue. I had a CS 2.5 wheelbase, CS 3.0 pedals, CS 1.5 h pattern shift, and hand brake with everything plugged into the wheel base and a single USB to the computer, but other than the handbrake, the rest of my Fanatec gear worked reliably and certainly never quit on me mid game.

For VR I originally had an Oculus Rift CV1 which was pretty reliable. I did have to occasionally recalibrate it and I had the cameras on tripods that I would accidentally move out of place. Once in a very rare instance it did something wonky. Since then I've had a Valve Index and it's been rock solid. I configured it once over 3 years ago and it has tracked perfectly since then. Obviously it uses lighthouses rather then inside out tracking.

Getting back to USB issues. I've never had an issue with my sim controls on that hub. However I do have a couple mini 4 channel DSP's with USB connections I use to configure them and they are pretty picky. I plugged one in this morning to a USB 2.0 port in the back of the computer and I was excited it worked. It seems to prefer USB 2.0 ports for some reason. So I'm not discounting any USB port weirdnesses. They do happen. Thinking back on it, the Fanatec wheelbase might have been more reliable on USB 2.0 ports.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Thinking back on it, the Fanatec wheelbase might have been more reliable on USB 2.0 ports.

I don't recall all the details when I was looking into my own issues, but I seem to remember that USB3 was quite different in a number of ways to USB2, being closer in characteristics to SATA and also using two data lines rather than one. This was the main reason I decided to match versions because if the manufacturer was cutting costs, then they were probably making compromises to accommodate both standards on common circuitry.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I don't recall all the details when I was looking into my own issues, but I seem to remember that USB3 was quite different in a number of ways to USB2, being closer in characteristics to SATA and also using two data lines rather than one. This was the main reason I decided to match versions because if the manufacturer was cutting costs, then they were probably making compromises to accommodate both standards on common circuitry.

But right now I'm running all of the following on my USB Hub

New stuff

• D-Box Gen5,
• HE Ultimate+
• SC2 Pro
• StreamDeck XL
• G-Belt
  

Old stuff

• Bodnar 64input button box board
• HE Handbrake
• HE sequential shifter

Not sure

• ProSim H pattern
• Precision Sim Engineering GT3 wheel

I am using all 10 of those hub ports reliably.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

I am using all 10 of those hub ports reliably.

I assume the hub is populated with USB3 ports? When digging around to solve my woes, having a decent hub seemed to be a recurring solution. I was struggling to get the exact same hubs in the UK so went for the version matching as a stopgap. There is too much anecdotal evidence to be sure, but it seemed to me that most people's woes were with USB ports directly on the motherboard, so maybe the hub manufacturers simply know their stuff whereas it's just a curiosity for the motherboard crowd? No idea really, but 'touch wood' I haven't had any recurring problems since matching versions.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Yes it is a USB 3.0 hub.

 

[fwyflyer]

I can totally relate to the reverb g2 issues. Phenomenal when it works but lack of reliability has rendered it a dust collector on my rig. For me, the NLR motion rig has been the single most reliable piece of hardware followed closely by my Accuforce Pro V2. I look forward to the days of reliable, plug and play, VR. We aren’t there yet. Would love to see if the hp reverb cable update might remedy the situation, but I cannot justify paying $100 plus dollars to fix what I believe is a defective product.

 

[Durge Driven]

After using a Orico 15port hub ( 13 Blue 2 Red with 13 used ) for years I could never go back.

I can swap between my gaming and everyday tower with a single USB lead and switch display hub takes seconds.

Since then I have brought a Samsung 1TB external SSD which means all my backup is stored on it, not a single thing of importance is stored local.

When I go out I just need to disconnect the SSD and take it with me leaving nothing important on either tower.

For me that has been bigger plus then the actual hub.

Another plus is no devices can change USB ID ever.

You can get drama swapping leads from PC to PC if you don't use the exact same USB ports for every device and get the windows is fixing this, etc.
With hubs you get none of that.

Another plus is a hub takes the weight of the USB slots in motherboard so they don't become loose. Like if you have 2 PC and swap all leads back and forward will wear them.

Also when you finish simming you can quickly pull all leads from cockpit ( 2nd Pic )
All you need do is remember the right order and you get no windows notifications, etc.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

HP had introduced updated power supply cable for Reverb G2 with on/off button that you could request from Customer support. Check if your is new version and if not try to contact HP to get your update.
It looks like this.

 

[fwyflyer]

The HP Reverb G2 version 2 Cables are out of stock and you have to pay $89 for them if your reverb g2 is out of warranty. Mine was among the preorders so it is well beyond the warranty period. Reviews on the replacement cables themselves are nightmarishly bad as well. Kinda think HP shot itself in the foot on this one... Here is the out of stock cable. Note the reviews.... https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-reverb-g2-6-meter-cable#

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I got mine for free, but I've contacted Customer Support as soon as they become available.
No complaints, the problem with G2 not initialized on startup was fixed and on rare occasions when it was acting up, flipping on/off button on that cable box was much easier than replugging power and USB before.
Sorry to hear that it's out of stock, sounds like HP just gave up on VR.

 

[Lesthegringo]

Thanks for all the replies.

I suppose I have nothing to lose by trying the USB hub route, the hub can always be repurposed if it doesn't fix the issue.

My G2 cable is the 'old' one, despite being purchased well after the new version came out. I have only had it for 9 months or so, so in theory it should still be in warranty

If nothing else, all the unplugging and reconnecting of the devices can't be good for the PC, it must have to reconfigure each time and I wonder if after a while it gets registry entries that start to conflict.

Having said that, if you don't have to go through the unplug / replug routine in the first place that wouldn't be an issue

Les

 

[vannib]

Today VR + Sim + bells & whistles today is something for real, real, real nerds. It's virtually impossible to just "turn it on and play", which is what the average (normal?) person would expect.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Today VR + Sim + bells & whistles today is something for real, real, real nerds. It's virtually impossible to just "turn it on and play", which is what the average (normal?) person would expect.

Not sure if this proves or disproves your point.

Step 1. I use a remote to turn on power to my computer, amplifiers and base stations. Two buttons gives it all power.
2. Turn on my 75" TV. Switch to computer.
3. Turn on my computer
4. Start up Steam VR.
5. Power up my rig.
6. Set my SC2 Pro profile.
7. Open SimCommander and launch game from there.

D-Box and SimHub come up automatically. Trading paints and crew chief come up automatically. StreamDeck comes up automatically.

8. For Dirt Rally 2.0 and DCS I have to bring up Steam whoch will show it "trying" to launch the game. I click cancel and than Start in Steam VR.

 

[vannib]

Not sure if this proves or disproves your point.

Step 1. I use a remote to turn on power to my computer, amplifiers and base stations. Two buttons gives it all power.
2. Turn on my 75" TV. Switch to computer.
3. Turn on my computer
4. Start up Steam VR.
5. Power up my rig.
6. Set my SC2 Pro profile.
7. Open SimCommander and launch game from there.

D-Box and SimHub come up automatically. Trading paints and crew chief come up automatically. StreamDeck comes up automatically.

8. For Dirt Rally 2.0 and DCS I have to bring up Steam whoch will show it "trying" to launch the game. I click cancel and than Start in Steam VR.

People are used to press one button and start playing…something like spending hours i.e. on trying to find the best settings for VR is not something they expect.

 

[Lesthegringo]

I did forget to say that there are some games that cannot be used at all, unfortunately despite some help and advice Dirt Rally 2.0 still will not work at all (gets stuck in intro video) and ACC has such poor performance that it is not viable. I suppose I have to put that down to incompatibility between the games and the hardware, but it does speak to the point that VR is not a plug and play venture at the moment and clearly does not have universal support. A shame, as when it all works it really is great to experience.

Prior to my Fanatec and VR experience, I had a G25 with a good widescreen setup and homemade pedals, H shifter and sequential shifter running Bodnar boards, and teh NLR V3. That was a rock solid setup, apart from when Windows would throw the update curve ball. This current set up is a long way from that, as I know that if I want to spend some time on the rig I am resigned to a period at the start to try to get it all running in cohort.

Anything that I can do to simplify things will help

Cheers

Les