heusinkveld sprint vs ultimate

[MastaMarek]

So I was set on sprints but then ... the ultimates look amazing with hydraulic damper on clutch and throtlle. I'm kinna scared of that 140kg brake force though. My real life cars that I've raced. Mx5 cup car, m2comp, e30 cup and so on. I've never driven a GT3 or GT4 car in real life. So would I feel the difference between the ultimates and sprints? thx in advance for the input.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Load cell vs hydraulics, informative reply from Niels here, important part is in bold.

Niels Heusinkveld
31 August, 2014

Heya,
As a manufacturer of loadcell based pedals, I want to share some views. The article goes fairly straight towards hydraulics being best, period. Presumably, and understandably, this is because real cars use hydraulics, so hydraulic sim pedals must be the best. This really is not an explanation at all however, and when you look closely at good hydraulic sim pedals, they work almost exactly like good loadcell pedals. You compress a stack of rubbers, springs, washers, cat hair, etc as you press the pedal.

Its not that hard to explain why car hydraulic pedals and sim hydraulic pedals work quite differently. Its very easy to see that while the operating principle may be the same, the "feel" of a real car pedal comes from many different things mostly absent in sim hydraulic pedals. I can explain that but that would become a pretty lengthy bit of text!

What all the good manufacturers do now, loadcell and hydraulic, is generate a user configurable feel by using various rubber bushings, springs, washers etc. This gives excellent results for 'feel' while all the time accurately measuring your foot force. You can use a loadcell to measure the force, or hydraulics, both can be extremely good if properly designed.

Load cells also don't fail (well not for a loooooooooong time) if used to no more than their rated force. I think the reason many people have broken loadcells on their Fanatec is that its fairly easy to overload the loadcell by pressing firmly. More high end pedals require higher brake pedal forces and are ideally made so that you can't calibrate into overload. So the max calibration is also the maximum allowable loadcell load. This way I had a loadcell last for over 10 years, just as accurate and dependable as on day 1. I'm fairly sure if you use a 1000psi pressure sensor and subject it to 2000psi for too long, it may fail at some point as well.

So by the time you get to the better loadcell and hydraulic pedals, the design and specific pedal functionality is more of a decider than the method used to measure your input force. They are both good methods.. The race teams in GP2 and F3 and a few other driver training simulators I work with are also divided, some use hydraulics, some load cell. Its more the execution of the method than the method itself.

Niels

 

[stigs2cousin]

Update:

in the end I stopped tinkering with the Frankensteen T3PA´s and went the HV Sprint route.

Astonishingly the first impression was how much better the throttle worked than in my tinkerbox.
The much smoother bearings and the adjustability of travel and force made a lot of a difference.
Though I had to get used to the longer travel of the sprint throttle, seems I had been quite stingy there.

The clutch worked fine, just had to much travel for my liking as both my DIY pedals and the clutch in my road car have much shorter travel than the stock HV Sprint. That was easyly remedied with a bump stop to the first part of the travel and recalibration.

The brake was the least difference in the beginning, I had set both pedalsets to a "stiff and short pedal"
After a few weeks I started experimenting and discovered that for me a stiff pedal with a little bit travel worked better, especially when trail braking.

Now I use the shortest and the next longer rubber which actually doesn´t feel that good when just sitting in the rig and playing around. You can feel the rubber " ballooning".
When driving this feeling is gone, trailbraking works better for me now.

So I advise every new Sprint owner to try different rubber stacks even if they know their preference before hand, sometimes another setup feels surprisingly good.
And most important, try the setup when driving, best for an extended period of time.

Thanks Heusinkveld for a great piece of kit

Carsten

 

[Medilloni]

Had my Sprints for a week or so now, build quality is superb and adjustability for personalisation is great. As @stigs2cousin says above, the throttle pedal is (for me) a game changer, I guess many of us think the brake is why you buy them, but the first time I drove 60's LMP/F1 etc I have so much more throttle control than before.

Only two tiny gripes - the front shaft that you slacken off so you can adjust pedal angle is threaded, so you slacken one bolt off, then the other just turns the shaft, so you tighten the other to loosen the other.... rinse repeat lol. If it wasn't threaded and was simply a bolt, as at the rear of the pedals, life would be easier The other little thing is the pedal plates are like a cheese grater if your feet slip whilst driving, so get the angle correct to stop that happening - though I imagine this can happen with other pedals that have gaps in the plate too.

For brake and accelerator I've got the softest settings possible at the mo, but this is more of a 'old bones' thing and keeping the Arthur Itis happy Will try a slightly shorter movement on the brake when I can.

Overall, far better than I thought they'd be, still having to concentrate to get rid of the 'muscle memory' from the other pedals (t3 pro's) but so chuffed with the confidence under braking and applying throttle, makes the AC Cobra an enjoyable ride

 

[FredAZ]

Love the Sprints - hate the flat metal cheese grater pedal plates - had to 3D print replacements with a slight curve and now they are WAY nicer to use with bare feet/sox.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Love the Sprints - hate the flat metal cheese grater pedal plates - had to 3D print replacements with a slight curve and now they are WAY nicer to use with bare feet/sox.

HRS has another option that many also like.

HRS 3pc 3D Machined Sprint Pedal Faces

NOTE: Australian customers - 10% GST will be added at checkout NOTE: International customers - import duties into your country will be at your expense, and will be your responsibility. The HRS billet aluminium 3D machined Pedal plates are a direct replacement for the Heusinkveld Sprint Series...

hrsims.com

I'm pretty happy with mine!

 

[Deleted member 197115]

HRS has option for Pro/Ultimate in stock now.

HRS V3-3P pedal pads for Heusinkveld Ultimates and Pros

NOTE: Australian customers - 10% GST will be added at checkout NOTE: International customers - import duties into your country will be at your expense, and will be your responsibility. The HRS billet aluminium 3D-V3 machined Pedal plates are a direct replacement for the Heusinkveld Ultimates &...

hrsims.com

Stunning quality and makes already great pedals even better, wide brake pedal pad is perfect for hybrid setup when you need both heel toe and left foot braking without moving pedals every time you change the car.
With shipping from Australia it's a bit on expensive side but worth every penny, craftsmanship is truly outstanding, each pedal plate is machined from solid piece of aluminum with thick anodization on the top.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

HRS has option for Pro/Ultimate in stock now.

HRS V3-3P pedal pads for Heusinkveld Ultimates and Pros

NOTE: Australian customers - 10% GST will be added at checkout NOTE: International customers - import duties into your country will be at your expense, and will be your responsibility. The HRS billet aluminium 3D-V3 machined Pedal plates are a direct replacement for the Heusinkveld Ultimates &...

hrsims.com

Stunning quality and makes already great pedals even better, wide brake pedal pad is perfect for hybrid setup when you need both heel toe and left foot braking without moving pedals every time you change the car.
With shipping from Australia it's a bit on expensive side but worth every penny, craftsmanship is truly outstanding, each pedal plate is machined from solid piece of aluminum with thick anodization on the top.

View attachment 503997

Upgrading pedals and need to unload these pedal plates.
Fit HE Pro and Ultimate, like new condition, PM if interested.

 

[MarkModdy]

Upgrading pedals and need to unload these pedal plates.
Fit HE Pro and Ultimate, like new condition, PM if interested.

Hi Andrew just PMed you re these pedal plates

 

[norbs]

I love my Ultimates, but they are destroying my knee heel and toeing.

 

[MarkModdy]

I love my Ultimates, but they are destroying my knee heel and toeing.

Have you tried reducing the required pressure to reduce the damage to your knee?

Or is it just the offset action of the turned leg that is doing the damage… if so maybe heel and toe shifts should be stopped altogether?

Remember, as serious as we are about out hobby, your personal health and well being should always come first above shaving a few seconds off a fast lap Norbs.

 

[norbs]

Have you tried reducing the required pressure to reduce the damage to your knee?

Or is it just the offset action of the turned leg that is doing the damage… if so maybe heel and toe shifts should be stopped altogether?

Remember, as serious as we are about out hobby, your personal health and well being should always come first above shaving a few seconds off a fast lap Norbs.

Yeah, it is a combo of the high pressure and the twisting action. My knee was destroyed 30 years ago and I should just give up heel and toeing. I think.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Is this technique ( shown by Fason Fenske/ Enfineering Explained) an alternative for you?

As we are completely free how to position our pedals on the rig you could set it up so that "rolling the foot over" would be sufficient.

MFG Carsten

 

[norbs]

Is this technique ( shown by Fason Fenske/ Enfineering Explained) an alternative for you?

As we are completely free how to position our pedals on the rig you could set it up so that "rolling the foot over" would be sufficient.

MFG Carsten

Any thing that involves twisting is problematic. I pretty much do what he shows there now as a way to try and alleviate the issue.

This is all my problem, I should have listened to doctors when I was in my 20s.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I hear you on the "sins of our past" part

MFG Carsten