Help I cant get rid of this awful cockpit movement

[Scott Tanner]

Can someone tell me how to remove the awful cockpit movement, it puts me off racing. I can handle when its the car moving over bumps and the world stays still to a certain degree like in AC or Pcars.

Please advise what I can alter.

 

[roby13]

Try instead of 29.5 zeroing the according values

 

[M.Guenette]

Thank you but its still to rigid for me

I adore the Stock cars bit I simply cant be competitive with this level of camera stiffness. Are there any category's were the view isn't so stiff?

This is the best view for me. With these settings the car takes the majority of movement through the chassis. Notice that the eye movement is now much less shaky. The car around you is moving but the head is pretty much stationary.

 

[Gringo]

The car around you is moving but the head is pretty much stationary.

It is not the head that would be stationary, but your vision. The effect that is being discussed is the "smoothing of motion" by the inner ear, your eye muscles, and your brain. The realhead plugin guy explains the effect in a thread somewhere (ISI forum I think). I use the realhead plugin for rFactor in GSCE it works ok. However I use only the vertical motion smoothing and disable the other axis.

EDIT:
Here are the details
https://sites.google.com/site/mididrumcoverpartner/rfactor2-realheadmotion-plugin

Some where this discussion also highlights that if you have a motion simulator rig then all of this inner ear eye motion simulation is not needed anymore since your inner ear then gets the physical stimulation.

And a bit more back ground if you're interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestibulo–ocular_reflex

And even more detail ad nauseam on the issue
http://embedded.eecs.berkeley.edu/Alumni/szollar/Research/VRVOR/vrvor.html

 

[JoelGL]

It is not the head that would be stationary, but your vision. The effect that is being discussed is the "smoothing of motion" by the inner ear, your eye muscles, and your brain. The realhead plugin guy explains the effect in a thread somewhere (ISI forum I think). I use the realhead plugin for rFactor in GSCE it works ok. However I use only the vertical motion smoothing and disable the other axis.

EDIT:
Here are the details
https://sites.google.com/site/mididrumcoverpartner/rfactor2-realheadmotion-plugin

Some where this discussion also highlights that if you have a motion simulator rig then all of this inner ear eye motion simulation is not needed anymore since your inner ear then gets the physical stimulation.

And a bit more back ground if your interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestibulo–ocular_reflex

I mentioned this awhile back, but I'm not sure if magicfr (the creator/developer) intends to make the plugin for SCE too (only available in AC and rF2). You saying the rF2 plugin version works with SCE? That would be great. Which did you use, x64 version?

EDIT: Sorry, I thought you were referring to the rF2 version. Saw that he also had an rF1 version. Thanks.

 

[Gringo]

Hi Joel,

https://sites.google.com/site/midid...dmotion-plugin/real-head-motion-for-rfactor-1

This is the rF version of the plugin that will work with GSCE. Now this rF version was never developed as much as the rF2 / AC editions. As such you may not be happy with this version as compared to the rF2 / AC editions.

As I mentioned I use only the "vertical head" simulation part of the rF plugin in GSCE. You can edit the realheadmotion.ini to disable the other axis.

The rF version is not the best but if you have the initiative you can get a useful result.

 

[JoelGL]

Thanks @Gringo. Care to PM me your ini file? Just to get a headstart w/ the many unknown parameters.

 

[Spinelli]

The smoothing that your inner ear does, does indeed help in real-life, however the overall experience is still about a million times closer with Rieza's way than the borefest, driving-a-70s-Cadillac-on-clouds way of IR or - when the "lock head to horizon" option is enabled - AC.

And the car moving relative to you instead looks absolutely ridiculous. As you go up and down hills it looks like you shrink to 2 ft tall or grow to 8 ft tall relative to the car/car's dash. Yet people want that ridiculous comedic style because it makes things nice and easy for them as if they're driving a limousine to the grocery store. That should be considered an aid, lol! (same with all the people who raise their views/seat height, it's so unrealistic and just making things unrealistically easy for yourself and it's not like that in reality).

 

[Wojciech Swirydowicz]

Spinelli please stop telling me what's ridiculous and what not. I know what I like and would like to have an option. Keep driving the way it is, be happy and leave us be.
If you wish do one thing for me. Look at an object 100m away from you and start jumping and shaking your head. Maybe you'll notice that human brain can still keep the object in view and stable (like in a limousine). Please try it and come back here.

 

[Wojciech Swirydowicz]

Small video example:

Notice that further away the object is, less shake it has. So it makes sense to have cockpit shake but not "world" shake. Going further: "horizon" shouldn't really bounce.

 

[Spinelli]

There is a compromise that must be reached between how the inner-ear helps in real-life to keep something relatively centered (but not sharp and clear, that part still get's messed-up) and having something that resembles a real-life experience. I'm sorry but overall, as a whole, the way IR and AC do it (if "lock head to horizon" is enabled in AC) is much, much further from the overall experience in real-life. Again, SCE's method is not perfect - I understand and agree with what you say about the inner-ear - but much, much closer to what racing is actually like in reality.

I've driven my fair share of racecars on my fair share of tracks. If I drove IR or AC (with the "lock head to horizon" option enabled), and then stepped in a real racecar, I'd be absolutely blown away into sensory overload from just the visual onslaught alone; it's a completely unrepresentative, misleading farce in those games. In real-life, your peripheral view is bouncing and shaking and rattling like a maniac. At least SCE gives a much, MUCH closer overall representation to the real-life experience.

 

[Gringo]

that part still get's messed-up

The discussion is not about trying to artificially smooth out the drivers view. There is a great deal of violent motion experienced by the driver of a race car. That is obvious to most and its really pedantic to point out.

What (i think) is being discussed is how the "drivers view in game" moves with relation to the cockpit of the car being driven and the outside world (horizon). By default it seems that GSCE more or less fixes the drivers view relative to the car he is driving. That is fine for rigs with motion simulation but not for a sim driver in a static cockpit. For a sim driver with a static cockpit the car should (also) move relative to the drivers view with the world. Your brain/eyes expect to correct your vision for motions your body experiences. In a static cockpit it is apparently important to consider this biological detail.

As an example your car travels over a bump as you look forward to the horizon. The inside of your cockpit relative to your view should move (or maybe pitch is a better descriptor) up/down to represent the bump to the static sim driver. In addition the horizon should also move but in a much smaller degree.

In my experience I gain more track information, more in-game awareness using the realheadmotion plugin because it gives my senses (for static sim racing sight, sound, and FFB) a better feeling of vertical acceleration (as I use it). I can "see" some bumps I can't feel in the FFB for example

In my humble opinion.

 

[roby13]

Why dont you guys simply try editing the variables suggested by hex, m.guenette and me? Believe me there's a setting for everyone's taste

 

[Gringo]

Hehe does this thread remind me of the FOV discussion? Yes... Yes it does.

Sure we have a few solutions (to a non issue apparently).

 

[roby13]

Haha indeed. Although there is an issue. Sce simulates only head movement. And even that is incomplete. Calculations are made on the assumption head is a homogenous sphere that moves around a pivot point. Neck and body are rigid masses. Ofcourse there is not the slightest simulation of occulmotorik, cerebellum muscle coordination, vestibular/brainstem controlled reflexes and image proccesing in vision center brain cortex. But thats deviating too much from my core argument: Sce offers the parameters for a statisfactory and pretty much "realistic" view.

 

[Gringo]

Sce offers the parameters for a statisfactory and pretty much "realistic" view.

This is the part that I am not convinced about. I plan to test it.

Altering the cam file as suggested would be a simple smoothing of the cockpit camera movement. This would mimic the effect I am looking for somewhat I agree. What the plugin does (i hope) is read the telemetry and add an opposite eye movement to the vertical force experienced. I maybe on the wrong track but I believe there is a difference in the end result.

 

[roby13]

Magicfr never updated the plugin for rf1. Afaik rf2 and ac versions simulate more parameters. Anyway i'm using it also for pitching and longitudinal forces.

 

[Scott Tanner]

It is not the head that would be stationary, but your vision. The effect that is being discussed is the "smoothing of motion" by the inner ear, your eye muscles, and your brain. The realhead plugin guy explains the effect in a thread somewhere (ISI forum I think). I use the realhead plugin for rFactor in GSCE it works ok. However I use only the vertical motion smoothing and disable the other axis.

EDIT:
Here are the details
https://sites.google.com/site/mididrumcoverpartner/rfactor2-realheadmotion-plugin

Some where this discussion also highlights that if you have a motion simulator rig then all of this inner ear eye motion simulation is not needed anymore since your inner ear then gets the physical stimulation.

And a bit more back ground if you're interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestibulo–ocular_reflex

And even more detail ad nauseam on the issue
http://embedded.eecs.berkeley.edu/Alumni/szollar/Research/VRVOR/vrvor.html

Gringo this has fixed my problem, thank you so much, I used the rF1 realheadmotion plugin and its just what I needed.

The car shakes as it goes over the bumps like before but the outside world stays relatively still as its supposed to.

 

[Spinelli]

Gringo this has fixed my problem, thank you so much, I used the rF1 realheadmotion plugin and its just what I needed.

The car shakes as it goes over the bumps like before but the outside world stays relatively still as its supposed to.

At first I thought the upper-left corner was your new, preferred way because it looked so much less dramatic. Then I realized the wording and arrow on the bottom right...

Hitting the bumps as you go down the straight before turn 1, it looks like your entre body is bouncing on a mini-trampoline inside the car. It looks like your head is constantly bouncing up and down off the ceiling/roof of the car.

It looks like the car is made out of jello and bouncing up and down as if it has soft, 10 ft long springs on each corner, while at the same time the driver isn't connected/sitting in the car but rather just floating in it somehow as the car bounces like a jello-spring relative to the driver...

 

[Scott Tanner]

At first I thought the upper-left corner was your new, preferred way because it looked so much less dramatic. Then I realized the wording and arrow on the bottom right...

Hitting the bumps as you go down the straight before turn 1, it looks like your entre body is bouncing on a mini-trampoline inside the car. It looks like your head is constantly bouncing up and down off the ceiling/roof of the car.

It looks like the car is made out of jello and bouncing up and down as if it has soft, 10 ft long springs on each corner, while at the same time the driver isn't connected/sitting in the car but rather just floating in it somehow as the car bounces like a jello-spring relative to the driver...

Which is just how I like it. Eyes aren't hard locked in their sockets which is the issue with the default game as they are (camera is locked).

The reason why you think its soft is because the cars is behaving like the top left video but the drivers eyes aren't following the bumps like they were before the car is moving the same as default. The plug-in simulates inner ear to eye balancing by keep the world outside relativity calm which is what eyes should be doing. It would be nice if the plug-in was added in by default (as an option perhaps) so that people such as myself can have this option eye balance on, and players like yourself can keep using the default rigid view as is now.

 

[Spinelli]

Yes but your flattering yourself and having an extremely unrepresentative experience compared to real-life.

Would you rather have it, let's say, 75% representative of the real-life experience with that missing 25% making it a little more difficult/uncomfortable than real-life? Or would rather it it only 40% representative of real-life with that missing 60% making everything a much more serene, stale, easy, comfortable, and unrepresentative experience relative to real-life?

I know in the end it's just a video game but I guess because I've done it in real-life and experienced first-hand the assault on the senses - even just the visual assault - that it confuses me when I see people making these nice, easy, stable views where everything is so lifeless and serene. Whenever I watch videos of, or play, sims with these types of views I always think "What is this? Geez! This is nothing like real racing. Don't you want to see, or at-least get a much closer overall representation, of what drivers go through in real-life regardless of how 'nice', and 'comfortable' it feels?"