Not far from it actually. Schumacher had the presence of mind not to turn in. In racing there are many situations similar to this. In this case MS had more control over his car than JPM had on his and was the only one with the ability to avoid contact. The same is true for LH. But despite that, I won't blame LH for turning in. Most drivers do, a rare few don't. It is one of the rare racing situations that I think separates good drivers from great ones. Even though, I'd also agree that In LHs case, if it wasn't the last lap, he may have been calmer and had the presence of mind to slow down further and dive under NR just as MS may have actually turned in and hit had he been in the last lap looking for victory.
Hamilton vs Rosberg - Who Was Really to Blame in Austria?
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
I don't like this comment at all. Regardless as to where this forum is geographically located or the main user base that frequents it this argument of being an 'English forum' has zero relevance.
I think you'll find that English or not most people have favourite drivers that are not their fellow countryman.
I for one am British, yes. But I think Alonso is the most complete driver on the grid, Button is a gentleman and Vettel is mischievous yet superb behind the wheel. Verstappen is who I'm watching closely as a driver who could be the next Senna and to he honest I'm frankly embarrassed that Lewis shares the same flag as I do.
Most Brits prefer a gentleman or an underdog. What Lewis is I don't know but he was more endearing to the British public when he was an unknown fighting for a championship in GP2
Lewis is not as popular in Britain as you might expect from a 3 times world champion certainly not a patch on Mansell fandom from 20+ years ago. He's a great driver but living mostly in the US and his petulant/spoilt attitude over the years don't help plus just mainly because F1 is nothing like as popular here as it used to be.
Frederic Schornstein
TXL Racing
Interesting on SkyF1 they always make it look like the british public loves him which I couldn't really understand based on the points you mentioned. I think it is a bit similar with Rosberg in Germany. I never felt he had a real fan following even though he is fighting for the championship since a few years. Merc could definetely hire better drivers in terms of marketing or maybe they hit a new target group with Hamilton
Lewis' image probably appeals more to young people but whether F1 has a lot of young fans I don't know, it doesn't seem like it from my experience. As for Nico, even Brits would be aware of the feeling that he is not a "real" German and if your true home country is Monaco you are not going to have a big natural fanbase.
They are certainly no Senna and Prost. You can argue that Hamilton is the Senna of his generation but Rosberg is behind Vettel and Alonso and maybe others and is no Prost that is for sure.
Mercedes should wait to see if Rosberg will win the championship this year and if not they should drop him and hire Werhlein who would probably be happy to back-up Lewis for a couple of seasons until he retires or moves on.
They are certainly no Senna and Prost. You can argue that Hamilton is the Senna of his generation but Rosberg is behind Vettel and Alonso and maybe others and is no Prost that is for sure.
Mercedes should wait to see if Rosberg will win the championship this year and if not they should drop him and hire Werhlein who would probably be happy to back-up Lewis for a couple of seasons until he retires or moves on.
TeSL9
Pessimistic (rarely flying) Finn :)
1. Its very good that these racing moments happen now more often. Its good for the sport imo. And maybe gets more other winners.
2. People are harshly speculating, so i will too. I think that if it was the other way around, Nico wouldn't had turn in, because it would be very expected that Ham would try to do the same thing, forcing Nico to the edge or out of the track. And he would try to avoid it more.
3. If the team won't let them race and will give them team orders... Or Hamilton gets a lead in championship and then they include somekind of 'lets just get the 1 2' order....
...then i think i'm done watching the sport.
(Ive been watching almost every race from 1997, and cheered many drivers)
2. People are harshly speculating, so i will too. I think that if it was the other way around, Nico wouldn't had turn in, because it would be very expected that Ham would try to do the same thing, forcing Nico to the edge or out of the track. And he would try to avoid it more.
3. If the team won't let them race and will give them team orders... Or Hamilton gets a lead in championship and then they include somekind of 'lets just get the 1 2' order....
...then i think i'm done watching the sport.
(Ive been watching almost every race from 1997, and cheered many drivers)
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You just rated my comment "angry"...Ahah
Off topic answer to some of you under spoiler not to screw this thread
By the way! The point of my comment was to explain my I think it's a racing accident
Some admin said this website is not english because servers are based in netherlands...That does not makes sense, my website is based in netherlands/Uk too but it's not british nor dutch, it's just where the servers are
You people are discussing OT related things. Nobody said anythin about my position on the accident, I suppose you agree with me.
I don't understand why someone got so angry for those words...
Some admin said this website is not english because servers are based in netherlands...That does not makes sense, my website is based in netherlands/Uk too but it's not british nor dutch, it's just where the servers are
You people are discussing OT related things. Nobody said anythin about my position on the accident, I suppose you agree with me.
I don't understand why someone got so angry for those words...
I will say it again, my position on the accident:
It is the exact same thing that happened in Canada (and Austin last year) , though Rogberg didn't close the door in canada like Hamilton did last race in Austria. Hamilton was not guilty according to almost everyone, so neither Rosberg should be guilty this time. But that does not appear to be the case.
Can anyone explain me why? I hope yes, but please do not waste both my time and yours writing about your anger towards my comments, just explain me why they have not received the same judgment
Peace guys! Comment the topic not other things!
TeSL9
Pessimistic (rarely flying) Finn :)
I'm wondering that same thing myself. I don't understand why Lewis didn't get any penalty of that thing in Austin last year... (or in japanese gp 2015 start)
And why no one sees the danger in that move when Lewis came back to track after the corner in Austria.. People just talked about Nico not giving any room in that situation. WHAT room is there to give?? THere is no one beside him or in front of him? He doesnt know his front wing is going to give away after that..? ... this seems sad. I'm sorry
At least the big hate here towards Nico is wrong .. completely wrong.
And why no one sees the danger in that move when Lewis came back to track after the corner in Austria.. People just talked about Nico not giving any room in that situation. WHAT room is there to give?? THere is no one beside him or in front of him? He doesnt know his front wing is going to give away after that..? ... this seems sad. I'm sorry
At least the big hate here towards Nico is wrong .. completely wrong.
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I'm wondering that same thing myself. I don't understand why Lewis didn't get any penalty of that thing in Austin last year... (or in japanese gp 2015 start)
And why no one sees the danger in that move when Lewis came back to track after the corner in Austria.. People just talked about Nico not giving any room in that situation. WHAT room is there to give?? THere is no one beside him or in front of him? He doesnt know his front wing is going to give away after that..? ... this seems sad. I'
At least the big hate here towards Nico is wrong .. completely wrong.
Okay, here goes.
When racing into a corner you have to consider a few things. First, who gets the 'right of way' and second, what 'that right of way' actually entitles them to.
If you are completely ahead of someone before the corner you can run them out of track on the outside of the corner entry BEFORE the corner. This gives you the fastest entry line into the corner and forces them to enter the corner after you. But it also gives them time to react and adjust their braking point and entry line before the corner. So for instance, while you have the right to optimal racing line through the apex, they have the option of going deeper and trying to undercut you on the exit.
Similarly, if the two cars are close enough that you share the corner entry and midpoint, but you are ahead, you can run wide on the exit AFTER the apex. This again gives you the fastest line out of the corner. But because it is done after the apex, when the tires are done almost all the turning and are now accelerating in a straight line , it gives your opponent some options. He can run wide onto the margin and try to out-drag you after the corner. Or if the track doesn't allow this, he can react early, see that you have closed the door on the exit, and dive to the inside of the exit hoping for better traction and a chance to fight back. This is the kind of tactic that Lewis uses on Nico all the time. Nico seems to always feel hard done by when it happens, but it is totally acceptable racing and is seen throughout the field all the time. It's the kind of racing fans and drivers enjoy.
Both of these entry and exit tactics require you to be at least somewhat ahead of the other driver. This way he can actually see what your car is doing and react. And the right way to do them is by using definite and firm positioning of your car to tell your opponent "I'm taking this line and you will have to decide to slow a bit, swerve to a different line, or run into the back of me. Your choice." Senna was known for this type of racing all the time.
None of these situations apply to what Nico did in Spielberg.
First he wasn't ahead into the corner - they were side by side. Just being on the inside of a corner doesn't entitle you to anything. In fact Lewis was on the racing line and ran off it to go extra wide to leave enough room for Nico to make the corner.
Second even presuming Nico had the 'right of way' in the corner (which he didn't) he couldn't close the door on entry so instead he tried to push Lewis off mid-corner. You can intimidate someone off the racing line before the corner and at the exit because they still have time to adjust their speed and line and pick a different way. Once you are in the corner if you force them off, there is no where to go except over the kerbs, into a gravel trap, or perhaps into a wall. If you watch the onboard video, Nico didn't even turn the wheel enough to likely make the corner himself if he hadn't had Lewis's car to bounce off of.
Oh, and Jonix, you can't call everyone biased because of the language they speak and then act defensive and innocent because people take issue with that accusation.
Brandon Wright
I may not be fast, but I'm wide!
I count twice they've wrecked each other, Spa '14 and Spain '16. Doesn't seem out of the ordinary.
You must be watching a different GP2 than I am. One of their drivers was suspended for a race after his shenanigans at Baku.
Well, in my opinion they are not the same thing. HAM crowded ROS in Canada and Austin, but he didn't intentionally straight-line the corner, and in both instances it could be seen that he had understeer. ROS pretty clearly intended to run HAM off the track in Austria, in the replay you can see he didn't even attempt to turn his wheel until he was way, way, way past the apex. His intention seemed to be either he was going to win or take both of them out.
I think ROS was just trying to pull a Schumacher-type move but didn't have the finesse to pull it off. I certainly put him at "fault" but I think most drivers would probably do similar moves in similar situations (though not all would have done it as clumsily as ROS did).[/QUOTE]
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Yes you are completely right! Hamilton did it multiple times, no penaltyI'm wondering that same thing myself. I don't understand why Lewis didn't get any penalty of that thing in Austin last year... (or in japanese gp 2015 start)
And why no one sees the danger in that move when Lewis came back to track after the corner in Austria.. People just talked about Nico not giving any room in that situation. WHAT room is there to give?? THere is no one beside him or in front of him? He doesnt know his front wing is going to give away after that..? ... this seems sad. I'm sorry
At least the big hate here towards Nico is wrong .. completely wrong.
Rosberg does it once, gets penalty
It's not actually difficult to see, it's the same exact thing
I'm not impressed by any of the two drivers.It's like watching Smeagol with the ring(championship) "my precious " . I'm not a Lewis fan but it he would have let Rosberg go and win i would have thought that very honorable indeed and i would have becomed a fan. My opinion it's 80% Rosberg's fault.
TeSL9
Pessimistic (rarely flying) Finn :)
Ok. but you have to slow down before you can turn. If he turned a bit earlier, he had too much speed to make the turn. ... and in that corner you can run more wider if you want to make that move ( i agree that he made a mistake there still) ... or the brakes were not doing what he wanted there.
..But look at us analysing this like mad men
... lets analyse the Villeneuve/Arnoux battle and we get 100+ pages of this
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Brandon Wright
I may not be fast, but I'm wide!
Ok. but you have to slow down before you can turn. If he turned a bit earlier, he had too much speed to make the turn. ... and in that corner you can run more wider if you want to make that move ( i agree that he made a mistake there still) ... or the brakes were not doing what he wanted there.
..But look at us analysing this like mad men
Yes, his failed brakes probably didn't help him to make the apex, but I still find it hard to believe he wouldn't have made an attempt to turn the wheel before that. He was looking straight ahead, hands straight on the wheel, waiting for the last possible moment to turn so he could run HAM wide. The announcers even called it a couple laps before, that it would be better for ROS's championship hopes to take both cars out than to let HAM win, and that's exactly what he did. But like I said, most drivers would pull something similar if they were in a heated title fight so I'm not really looking down on him for it, he just did a clumsy job of it.
As for the Villeneuve/Anroux battle, that was in a different era where drivers were allowed to drive and didn't have fear of getting a penalty for every little contact or crossing of track boundaries so it's really impossible to compare the two.
..But look at us analysing this like mad men
Rene Arnoux was the Rosberg of his day and Gilles was a hero (and still is to me)
Best (and most intelligent) thing I've read on any F1 related site since Sunday. Thanks for that
nico is overrated not lewis
Brandon Wright
I may not be fast, but I'm wide!
Eh, regardless of who's fault it was, it made for a very exciting ending to what was looking to be another 1-2 parade where the trailing car couldn't get close enough to pass. And it should inject some more excitement into the rest of the season, I'm quite excited to see how this championship pans out! Just hope RIC and VET can each get at least one mark in the Win column before it's all done and dusted. Going into the season I was afraid it was going to be a snoozefest, it has been anything but that so far.
Driver popularity has always influenced public opinion in situations like these. Hamilton performs these same aggressive moves but rarely receives any criticism because one he's Lewis Hamilton, and two because Rosberg often takes evasive action (COTA '15, Canada '16, just from memory) and just loses position as a result instead of holding his ground and keeping Lewis honest. And that type of outcome is always far less controversial or memorable than one that results in a collision.
Rosberg is trying to do what Hamilton has become quite good at but he's yet to learn how to pull it off. Yeah technically he's at fault, but to me he's more at fault for not knowing when and how to pick his battles and maybe even more for not being a popular world champion.
Rosberg is trying to do what Hamilton has become quite good at but he's yet to learn how to pull it off. Yeah technically he's at fault, but to me he's more at fault for not knowing when and how to pick his battles and maybe even more for not being a popular world champion.
D
Deleted member 130869
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Deleted member 130869
If Nico hadn't locked up maybe he could have turned without contact, and kept Lewis wide and forced to back off.
