GTR2: Why are Modern Sims Still Not as Good?

[Paul Jeffrey]

GTR2 is 11 years old, features a series that no longer exists and was developed for technology less advanced than a modern smart phone. Unbelievably it's still one of the best sims available today.

What I want to know is why? Why in the last 10 + years have some of the many awesome features found in this now long forgotten game not made their way into something more modern? Ok granted many different games feature some of the bits in GTR2, but no single title has taken what was already an incredible base and expanded upon it with the aid of much advanced technology we now have at our disposal.

Driving School? Check
Fully animated pit workers? Check
Animated flag marshals? Check
Day - night transition? Check
Weather cycle? Check
Full official series licence, over two separate seasons? Check
...and the list goes on and on...

Simply put GTR2 was massively overdeveloped, period. SimBin Studios quite literally took every single aspect of the then premier GT racing series in the world and recreated it all into a compelling racing experience that still stands out as a top simulation even by the standards of today, 11 years after the game hit our shelves.

I just find it all incredibility bizarre. In very few industries outside of sim racing will you see a decline in product quality and content as the years progress like we have to put up with today. When GTR2 first shipped in September 2006 the game was a complete package, not splattered with ridiculous bugs that prevented anyone having a good time, not bombarded by wave after wave of disparate DLC content with little or no relevance to the main experience and not hanging on by the merest thread for dear life as another iteration of something that's been released by someone else already. It really was a golden time for sim racing fans, and those who witnessed it all first hand really did think this would be the beginning of something big in sim racing.

Fast forward to 2017 and sadly the progress expected post GTR2 has quite simply not materialised. The game, the official simulation of the FIA GT World Championship, was probably the very last fully feature complete racing simulation we have seen in our niche genre. We've had loads of new games since then, some of which have even been released by the same people responsible for GTR and GTR2, but none have even come close to matching the level of features and polish afforded fans back in 2006. It's down right strange.

Take RaceRoom Racing Experience for example, developed as the next GT game from the people behind GTR and GTR2, when the title first hit public beta stage back in February 2013 what did we have? Basically a hotlapping simulation with limited content, no official series licence, no AI to race against and precisely zero multiplayer features. Added to the still missing animated flag marshals and a range of other GTR2 items that haven't made the move over with time, it's all rather a depressing scene in which to take in.

Ok I appreciate Sector3 have worked exceptionally hard at improving RaceRoom to get to a level where it is barely recognisable now to what it looked like on launch day, but still to even consider releasing a game that was basically stripped of everything that made GTR2 great is simply mind boggling.

And it's not just RaceRoom that are guilty of missing out some key features considered par for the course 11 years ago, everyone is doing it! You only have to look at one of the most popular sims on the market Assetto Corsa as a perfect example, they consider themselves to be perfectionists on a mission to produce the most true to life experience possible, and they even miss out the core basics like weather and day to night transition, never mind such "nice to have" features like a driving school, proper flag implementation and multiclass racing options. It's simply amazing to realise that these features quite simply only exist in a game that was designed and released over a decade ago. Unbelievable.

GTR2 still looks pretty good on top graphics settings, still feels very nice indeed with my trusty CSW V2 and still sounds like it belongs in the very top tier of audio experience. All that whilst replicating a seriously mega international championship in a exceptionally detailed simulation that really does pick out all the little features that makes driving on a virtual track feel like the real thing. With that said and the pretty compelling physics considering the age of the title added up with stuff that no other sim has all together in one package, this is why I still believe GTR2 is, without reservation, the very best simulation racing experience one can purchase during 2017.

I love the game, it's just a bit sad that no one has thought to try and make something similar in the following 132 months since it was released.

GTR was released by SimBin Studios exclusively for PC. The game is still available to purchase on Steam for £4.99.

Like GTR2? Well lucky you, we are seriously considering a brand new informal league! Check out the GTR2 sub forum for general GTR2 discussion or our new GTR2 RDGT Championship forum for more details of the new league season. To prepare for the league all we ask is you have Premium membership, a fresh GTR2 install and these two additional patches HERE and HERE. Get ready for a return of the legend....

Do you still enjoy GTR2? What did the sim do right in your opinion? Why do features present in GTR2 still not appear in moderns sims? Let us know in the comments section below!

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

Thanks. Sorry, what do you mean by re-activate? Also, so there are no more mods add-on cars/tracks?

@JayJayRaceinho , nice vid! I don't see the settings posted though in YT.

unfortunately, i don't have them anymore. had to reinstall gtr2 from scratch ..... but reshade seems to be a better option anyway today.

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

Does someone know a guy called 'ErikRD' who created this mod (and various more mods)? the RD, sounds like RaceDepartment

 

[Robert_S]

Formation Lap? Check

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

(Incidentally, I would like to see an RD article about modders and their contribution to the wacky pastime of sim racing.)

We are brewing on something a little bit different but which may have a huge positive impact on modding. Stay tuned.

 

[Skybird05]

Available development resources, available time, available money and wanted quality standard and complexity, all come together and interact. You cannot get more and more, when cutting ressources at the same time, or at least keeping them at their former level. What the article demanded - feature-completeness - could be had - but probably only at higher investment costs and thus higher product prices. A niche genre like sim racing probably does not give too good projections on customer's acceptance to pay much higher prices.

GTR2 was my big racer before AC and RR. Now I am with AC and RR. Both I like much. I skip on the other titles available, some I do not like, for others I just do not have more time.

 

[JoelGL]

How do you guys setup using triples? Any tips to get a headstart with a T300 wheel?

 

[grahamw]

I think may be its not that they couldn't do these things but they don't want too I suspect like everything money is the biggest driver and the things that make money in volume sadly are compatibility with the majority not those who actually care about authenticity.

If a game ports on to Xbox 1 and Ps4 and will grip the consul gamers by the short and curlies it's probably going to be a success. It needs traction and in truth a shiny new car and flashy video will do that rather than the best FFB or Night/Day transitions sorry guys just fact.

It's like all gadgets and gizmo's do we really need them no but the add looked good, the unboxing video even better but when you get it what are they joking another £500 and did I really need a device to tell me the time when I have a watch... Need I say more?

Games like FIFA and Forza probably outsell the likes of Assetto Corsa and R Factor 2 etc in their millions. Its shiny new and fast it's not very good but that doesn't mean today's generation won't buy it every freaking year just for a virtually invisible change in some cases.

The truth is F1 (2017) will sell better than Project Cars 2 it's just marketing is it likely it will be more of the same old, same old but that's the world we live in.

One day some one will produce a game that does all of these missing features but apart from those dedicated to SIM racing it will probably come and go and most will have missed a great game.

 

[Paul Jeffrey]

Some interesting comments so far and a nice read, however I think some people have missed the point of the article.

I am not saying the features / physics / ffb or whatever are better than what we have in modern sims, what I'm trying to get across is the sheer volume of features in a game from 2006 I would have expected to have been carried on and improved by more recent games. Instead it seems that many of the things in GTR2 that were considered standard don't exist in many other sims.

Night racing for example. GTR2 it isn't anywhere near as good as PCARS or rF2. But it's missing from AC & R3E. I would have expected by now that night racing would be standard for all games, and having had 11 years worth of improvements made to it too.

Same with weather and other such things. I know animated flags marshals aren't exactly a deal breaker, but if it was around in 2006 then I suppose it should have been made super smashing marvellous and be in all games by now.

It's like a tyre manufacturer decided to make wheels from rubber one day. Everyone looked at it and though "awesome, that's a great thing" and used it for ages, then the next tyre manufacturer just went back to wood and everyone followed suit, occasionally adding rubber patches to the wheel that were likely to either fall off or not work at all.

So no, I'm not saying GTR2 does everything the best of the best, I'm just surprised that everything in GTR2 hasn't been adopted and improved in other sims, as is the usual case with things that improve over time.

 

[Paul Jeffrey]

How do you guys setup using triples?

Just set the in game resolution to a high setting and that's it The menus will be a bit stretched and not ideal, but workable.

 

[Will Mazeo]

Some interesting comments so far and a nice read, however I think some people have missed the point of the article.

I am not saying the features / physics / ffb or whatever are better than what we have in modern sims, what I'm trying to get across is the sheer volume of features in a game from 2006 I would have expected to have been carried on and improved by more recent games. Instead it seems that many of the things in GTR2 that were considered standard don't exist in many other sims.

Night racing for example. GTR2 it isn't anywhere near as good as PCARS or rF2. But it's missing from AC & R3E. I would have expected by now that night racing would be standard for all games, and having had 11 years worth of improvements made to it too.

Same with weather and other such things. I know animated flags marshals aren't exactly a deal breaker, but if it was around in 2006 then I suppose it should have been made super smashing marvellous and be in all games by now.

It's like a tyre manufacturer decided to make wheels from rubber one day. Everyone looked at it and though "awesome, that's a great thing" and used it for ages, then the next tyre manufacturer just went back to wood and everyone followed suit, occasionally adding rubber patches to the wheel that were likely to either fall off or not work at all.

So no, I'm not saying GTR2 does everything the best of the best, I'm just surprised that everything in GTR2 hasn't been adopted and improved in other sims, as is the usual case with things that improve over time.

Exactly. People always give excuses to why some things are not present in current games, but in the end devs decided to remove them first and it's the main reason they aren't there now. Removing a feature can become a far bigger snow ball when you want to add it back than keeping it there and spending time on it.
What really bothers me is that people are giving a ton of money to games that are essencially downgrades with pretty graphics. That just sucks, what kind of message are you giviing to a dev when you do it?
Really how can you release something without physic stuff like brake temperature, or tire pressure, or racing features like flags, false starts and call it a racing sim and still make money from it. People forgot their money is actually a vote too.

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

So no, I'm not saying GTR2 does everything the best of the best, I'm just surprised that everything in GTR2 hasn't been adopted and improved in other sims, as is the usual case with things that improve over time.

as far as i am concerned, one wants to beat the GT Sports and Forza franchise (pcars), one wants to impress the car-manufacturers (AC), one wants to stick and defend to their 2012-business plan / game-idea with all costs (RRE), one is just interested in the $$$ with a fire&forget concept (codemasters).

 

[Enzo Fazzi]

as far as i am concerned, one wants to beat the GT Sports and Forza franchise (pcars), one wants to impress the car-manufacturers (AC), one wants to stick and defend to their 2012-business plan / game-idea with all costs (RRE), one is just interested in the $$$ with a fire&forget concept (codemasters).

And rFactor 2 wants to make a proper simulator

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

And rFactor 2 wants to make a proper simulator

and reiza doesn't have the proper funds (i guess )

 

[Brandon Wright]

Some interesting comments so far and a nice read, however I think some people have missed the point of the article.

I am not saying the features / physics / ffb or whatever are better than what we have in modern sims, what I'm trying to get across is the sheer volume of features in a game from 2006 I would have expected to have been carried on and improved by more recent games. Instead it seems that many of the things in GTR2 that were considered standard don't exist in many other sims.

Night racing for example. GTR2 it isn't anywhere near as good as PCARS or rF2. But it's missing from AC & R3E. I would have expected by now that night racing would be standard for all games, and having had 11 years worth of improvements made to it too.

Same with weather and other such things. I know animated flags marshals aren't exactly a deal breaker, but if it was around in 2006 then I suppose it should have been made super smashing marvellous and be in all games by now.

It's like a tyre manufacturer decided to make wheels from rubber one day. Everyone looked at it and though "awesome, that's a great thing" and used it for ages, then the next tyre manufacturer just went back to wood and everyone followed suit, occasionally adding rubber patches to the wheel that were likely to either fall off or not work at all.

So no, I'm not saying GTR2 does everything the best of the best, I'm just surprised that everything in GTR2 hasn't been adopted and improved in other sims, as is the usual case with things that improve over time.

That's exactly how I read it, a case of the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Any individual feature evaluated in isolation may not have been the best or as good as what we have now, but when you put all the features together and evaluate it as a whole product it becomes obvious how much some modern sims have regressed in certain areas.

During the GTR/Race07/rF1 golden days I was stuck in console land, watching from afar at how much cooler these PC sims were than my lowly Gran Turismo, so many features that I so desired. Just over two years ago I finally made the jump to PC and was all excited to experience the glory and awesomeness of PC racing.....only to find most games were half-baked betas that seemed more like proofs of concept than full featured titles. Overall I found it quite disappointing and things have not improved much in the following two years. In fact the tables have turned to where I often find myself wishing for features that were present in GT5/6 to be added to PC sims.

 

[grahamw]

Brandon I think you are on the right lines the PC gamer is used to test a game which is sold as the completed article which is then fixed as you go and in some cases Project Car 2 used to launch another product when basically the original is still not working perfectly.

They then release a dumbed down version with most of the faults either fixed or removed from the game entirely for the 60 fps consul market where they make the serious bucks thanks to us dedicated simmers having told them where the problems are.

It's done through out the gaming and software industry and we are used as cheap testers for a part finished and often sub standard products.

The worse example to date I have come across is Windows 10 which if was stable for more than a week actually might be quite good as a opposed to a wing and prayer that your PC will actually turn on next time you use it.

I actually brought an flying SIM the other day (Xplane 11) and they gave everyone a copy of X Plane 10 included in the price (many might have it but so what it showed willing) and stated we are releasing the Beta of X Plane 11 but it's not finished and may break and have errors.

It certainly isn't cheap as a beta release and no idea how much it will be at full price but the fact they actually tell you was in my opinion a very honest thing.

Has effected sales I doubt it judging by the number of video's on You Tube may be game designers could up their game or at least make it feel that they aren't using us to develop their business with our time and money.

 

[Rodent]

I think it comes down to dev and player reaction, a lot of what we have right now was the business reacting in the late 00's/early 10's. Piracy was rampant, devs weren't generating cash flow, enter alternative business models. Same goes for the hotlap simulators who niche trying to perfect the feel of taking a car around a lap of track and damned be all other things, all the other sims were complete packages, why not make a niche project that focused on one thing only?

I'm really hoping Not rFactor 3, GTR3, pCARS 2, Reiza 17 and whatever else we looming just over the horizon will react to what we currently have, a bunch of promising titles that have never fully developed. Focus on having a complete package, then add on top of that.

Time will tell I guess and boy is it easy to armchair run a sim dev studio, but I really do think whoever manages to release the next "complete package" will be top dog. And just to be a bit contrarian I will say this includes really pretty graphics.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I'm really hoping Not rFactor 3, GTR3, pCARS 2, Reiza 17 and whatever else we looming just over the horizon will react to what we currently have, a bunch of promising titles that have never fully developed. Focus on having a complete package, then add on top of that.

I'm really anxious to see what GTR3 can do with the Unreal engine, seems like it has the possibility to literally be a game changer and bring back all these bells and whistles that some of us crave. Time will tell.

 

[David Wright]

Flatspot modelling? Nope
Chassis flex? Nope
Turbo modelling? Nope
RealRoad? Nope

Turbo modelling? Nope but only one of the 23 cars in GTR2 is actually turbocharged.
Chassis Flex? Nope but then most current sims don't include this either. Why? Because chassis flex isn't significant for a modern GT racing car. It is of course very helpful if you want to simulate gokarts which rF2 does.
RealRoad? Nope but it does feature Live Track which was the first dynamic track grip simulation.

 

[belevezero]

I just recently reinstalled GTR2 about a month ago out of boredom. As much as I appreciate GTR2 as being the gateway drug to my sim addiction, it didn't hold my attention for very long. To say it stacks up to PC sims of today is a stretch, but I totally agree with GTR2 being the standard for what a sim should provide. The driving school for one, which allows you to practice a single corner over and over again is common sense, yet only exists in GTR2. I do find it hilarious that it still has better physics and FFB than Forza.

 

[Ville-Samuli Mutanen]

I've been sim driving for something like 15 years and only during these last few years the products has been good enough to invest some big time and money. Some time ago I tried to install the GTR2 again but todays hardware seems to be way too much asked for the game.

The sheer amount of half-baked functions is not something I'm looking for and not single function is life and death for me. Let's put it this way.

ISI is so old-fashioned that I'm not surprised if "not rF3" will be a bit similar to GTR2. We'll see..