GTR 2 VR Support! (Not asking, telling!)

[paokkerkir]

Sorry, I personally have no plans on doing that.

The d3d9.dll binaries can be chained, so there might be something can be done there, but again graphics is the last thing I care about in a sim, so have no idea when I'll get to it.

Great to hear about the chaining of d3d9, looking forward to this whenever it is coming! Thank you for the continuous updates.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Great to hear about the chaining of d3d9, looking forward to this whenever it is coming! Thank you for the continuous updates.

Sorry, but just to be clear - no promises If fact, it is quite unlikely I'll look into it, all I said it might work.

 

[paokkerkir]

I did not take it as a promise, it is awesome what you have already done for this game, anything that might come along the way is an extra.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

I understand that adding the fresnel shader is a huge task.
Also interested in the gmt animation. I don't think anyone have made any modifications other than wiper animations (positioning)?

The shader is easy as it is the same as i made for race 07 as hardware shader. Like the effect and figured out that Race 07 are manipulating the specular values in the .exe like it does with many things.
Got a few half done cars with fresnel shaders looking ok but hardly worth it to make new ones as the grayscale reflect are pretty good too.
Not easy to make the fresnel spec texture anyway.

By the way Andreas no need to pack files in .gtr in gtr2. It is just for disc space and clarity.

I do agree the Race 07 tracks for the most looks better but I think it has a more dynamic looking lighting even it is static.
There isn't any fresnel shaders used on the tracks, just on cars and I doubt anyone thinks the car cockpits looks better in race 07.
And now with 'native VR in gtr2 it is hard for to go back sim racing on a monitor.
Just saw 'The Iron Wolf' pushed out an update for crew chief and VR which is a great improvement in realism.
Now there are consequences (optional) for speeding in the pit lanes.

 

[AndreasFSC]

You are right, it's not very much the cars that make GTR2 look less good, but the tracks (and they don't have fresnel). Maybe I am doing something wrong, but to me it looks like there is a sephia filter on everything. I guess they wanted to add a little bit of the nice "golden hour" looks that many modern games have to make those beautiful screenshots.

But in the game it makes grass and trees look brown and gray.

Also I notice the ai cars are sliding around very much like the original Race 07 ai cars do. I have to make a few fast experiments

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Also I notice the ai cars are sliding around very much like the original

Check out HQ Anniversary patch AI it is much much better than stock. The only thing I don't understand is why physics choice (NAP/Reborn etc) affects AI. I have difficulty using NAP as AI is quite broken with that.

 

[AndreasFSC]

Yes, the HQ cars drive better

 

[AndreasFSC]

Good news:
As an experiment I tried my "TinyTweak" fixes on a Saleen, and they seems to work well in GTR2 too. The car body movement looks more realistic (in my opinion of course) and the ai drives a little bit smoother. Also tried my track lights settings, and they work well with the cars I think. So I might try to convert a mod to GTR2 one day. Don't know which yet

 

[Kenny Paton]

So I might try to convert a mod to GTR2 one day

Oh a super touring one would be nice (1997).
Not that I want to add to your workload

 

[Vanaja]

You guys are doing a great job on both games!

 

[GTR233]

@The Iron Wolf : SimBin (well ISI first) puts AI settings in many (to not say all) files so It's complex to isolate AI behavior (it took me many years to achieve HQ versions with many try-errors before getting something).

By the way, I tested again with both nocd and RaceRoom/Steam : if you enable FLAG RULES in REALISM tab then you will get a penalty for speeding in pit lane during RACES only (doesn't work in practice/qualify/warmup), and 62km/h instead 60km/h is enough to see black flag.

 

[AndreasFSC]

@GTR233 if you want to add an "AL TinyTweak" treatment to the HQ cars, please let me know
(I understand this is your project, so feel free to accept or decline )

 

[Günthar Rowe]

I only know how to edit the position, but there are some animation export log files included for the last Race07 addon cars. I can send them to you so you hopefully can get a better understanding of the files. I wonder if @Günthar Rowe knows any animation secrets? He was the Race 07 guru when I started about 10 years ago and is mentioned in some of the latest Simbin cars.

I was using already available animations and modifying them to suit the new cars as they were converted/produced. eg. taking the wiper from a SEAT and modifying it to match the V8 Supercar. I wasn't writing the code from scratch...

 

[AndreasFSC]

I was using already available animations and modifying them to suit the new cars as they were converted/produced. eg. taking the wiper from a SEAT and modifying it to match the V8 Supercar. I wasn't writing the code from scratch...

Ok, that's what most people (like me) still do

 

[The Iron Wolf]

@The Iron Wolf : SimBin (well ISI first) puts AI settings in many (to not say all) files so It's complex to isolate AI behavior (it took me many years to achieve HQ versions with many try-errors before getting something).

By the way, I tested again with both nocd and RaceRoom/Steam : if you enable FLAG RULES in REALISM tab then you will get a penalty for speeding in pit lane during RACES only (doesn't work in practice/qualify/warmup), and 62km/h instead 60km/h is enough to see black flag.

And you did amazing job on HQ AI, it is really great.

Yes, I saw what you describe as well, but it helps to get a confirmation. In latest released plugin I added an option to penalize in non-race session. It is not enforced yet (no disqualification if you ignore penalty. I will revisit this later) but Jim will keep nagging you so it works pretty nicely.

 

[AndreasFSC]

Do someone know why wet tyres optimum temperature is set to 90 in GTR2 (and Race 07 too)? The reason for having wet tyres, except to avoid aquaplaning, is that they should work better at lower temperatures.
I usually set the temperatures to about 55 for wet tyres. Or is there any reason not to? This might be the wrong place for this question, but since you are discussing the game on a deeper level here...

 

[Olivero]

I just tried the new version of Crew Chief. After a few minutes on the track I get a stutter every 5 seconds.
This problem didn't exist with the old version.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Do someone know why wet tyres optimum temperature is set to 90 in GTR2 (and Race 07 too)? The reason for having wet tyres, except to avoid aquaplaning, is that they should work better at lower temperatures.
I usually set the temperatures to about 55 for wet tyres. Or is there any reason not to? This might be the wrong place for this question, but since you are discussing the game on a deeper level here...

I've read in NAP physics explanation that optimal range for wets is 90. Not sure where does that come from. https://autosimsport.net/backissues.php#vol2 - very nice read.

@Olivero - nothing changed in realtime rendering especially for every 5 seconds. You can always go back to old version, see our site on how to do that.

Also, for the future reference - there's almost nothing I can do about performance and stutters without the source code access, so unless I change something (I'll mention in the changelog), going forward don't expect a response for those.

 

[AndreasFSC]

Thanks, there was much interesting information there!
I red from two tyre manufacturers that racing wet tyres have their optimal working temperature at 50 - 60 degrees so that is strange.
Maybe those tyres I red about are some sort of track day tyres, or maybe the slightly heavier higher hp GT cars need different compounds than touring cars?

https://www.hankooktire.com/common/files/motorsports/competition-tires/2017_hankook_tire_competition_tire_catalog.pdf

I'm not about to try to overhaul the physics here, just to add the "treatment" to the ai physics, and that includes some changes to the tyres. But rather than manually change this in all files in all places I thought I should make a tyre calculating spreadsheet.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

I think your are right with rain tires got lower optimal tire grip temperature in real life.
Recall some spreadsheet I once saw with what was supposed to be real life racing tire date where the optimal tires temps was around 80 C for dry tires and optimal temperatures for wet tires was 60 - 90 C so a much level curve for wet tires in that temperature range .
And a much higher degradation rate for wets when over the max grip temperature.
Not sure how accurate the figures was or how accurate my memory are

With the sims being more simplified wouldn't a 55 C degrade the tires real fast when on the border line between dry and wet tires?
But I for one would welcome getting more accurate tire data.
That is another big advantage to the old sims we can change and experiment as we feel like.