AC GT3 @ Zandvoort - Sunday 4th September 2022

[Kek700]

Video of the Paulo ‘netcode’ incident.

We need to put a stop to this undertaking, before everyone starts doing it

 

[RasmusP]

Rest sounds good!

phys hardly ever been above 60% on the lap.

The phys % isn't very important as long as it's not at 99%.
Only the PHY_LATE value is important. Every time THAT goes up, the physics calculation wasn't completed before the next "tick", so an estimation had to be made instead of actually displaying the true physics.

Up to 20 per lap is okay but if you get like 1000+ per lap, your physics are glitchy!

 

[The Almighty Snark]

I'm a bit confused by that picture. I didn't go off at that point. Was it me that hit you? I was some way away at the time.

Yes, you can see the location of your car on the map, on a straight line at full speed about to warp through the first barrier. But hey, it happens! The race giveth, the race taketh!

I see a lot of smart people already have contributed a ton of network knowledge so who knows, maybe something will come out of that!

 

[Interslice]

Thanks to all for the nice racing last night. Hope you can all get to the bottom of the various tech issues.

Next weeks race thread is up. See you there!

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/gt3-championship-round-1-sunday-11th-september-2022.248128/

 

[Kek700]

Just out of interest

I have been putting some effort into mid engined cars of late, hence the McLaren at Zandvoort!
I have at present come to the conclusion that it is all about, not only setup, but the ability to sense that slight start of oversteer. ( AC in particular )
Which brings me onto the sim and how you sense that.
The McLaren at some point, probably driver error , exaggerated by how quickly the AC tyres overheat, ( if that is real life I would not know?) will start to oversteer.
Either I just loose concentration, probably, or I just cannot sense the initiation of the over steer. Either through the FFB or visually.
Has anyone got any polite suggestions.

 

[Interslice]

Maybe this will give you an indication of how quickly tyre surface temps can change! Instantly going up to towards 400C!

I noticed at spa, when I spun in practice I would just let it spin. In the race however, when I got it really sideways into pouhon, I gave it everything to try a drift it through the slide and come out the other end and save my race position.

In practice the car was pretty driveable after a spin. In the race it was completely undrivable and it double oversteered wobbled a few times into the walls before I got to the straight back to blanchimont and cooled the tyres.

Compounding the initial slide problem is a big issue I have! I lost about 50 seconds on that lap. Pouhon is a pain as you have a whole section of corners to get through right after with half melted tyres. It is difficult not to put further heat into them. The proplem with sim racing is you are going into those corners what you think is slow, but it's still 150km/hr!

Catching the slides for me is knowing the risky areas on the track and being coiled and ready to counter it before it gets out of hand. Sticking to the one car helps, so in the long term you build up a load of experience with the same car at the same tracks.

Sorry for the waffle! Just had a coffee!

 

[RasmusP]

Just out of interest

I have been putting some effort into mid engined cars of late, hence the McLaren at Zandvoort!
I have at present come to the conclusion that it is all about, not only setup, but the ability to sense that slight start of oversteer. ( AC in particular )
Which brings me onto the sim and how you sense that.
The McLaren at some point, probably driver error , exaggerated by how quickly the AC tyres overheat, ( if that is real life I would not know?) will start to oversteer.
Either I just loose concentration, probably, or I just cannot sense the initiation of the over steer. Either through the FFB or visually.
Has anyone got any polite suggestions.

To be honest I have no idea about AC.. It's sometimes just a mystery!
Here's my spin at Zandvoort, entry to apex of the last corner.
You can clearly see the spin in my throttle trace, steering input and the slip angles.
I then tried to find out what caused it.
But there are NO signs of anything happening in the suspension graphs, ride height, wheel speeds, tyre grip, temperature, tyre loads, anything!
I mean I'd expect at least the wheel speeds to go up for a short spike, showing the wheelspin?

Nope... Seems like touching the kerb with the inside rear tyre simply made that tyre slide sideways and that's it.
Meaning my throttle input didn't matter, apparently, since the wheel speeds didn't even go up.

Maybe it was the 1-point-contact issue, or how it was called in ACC: Kerb of death?

 

[Interslice]

To be honest I have no idea about AC.. It's sometimes just a mystery!
Here's my spin at Zandvoort, entry to apex of the last corner.
You can clearly see the spin in my throttle trace, steering input and the slip angles.
I then tried to find out what caused it.
But there are NO signs of anything happening in the suspension graphs, ride height, wheel speeds, tyre grip, temperature, tyre loads, anything!
I mean I'd expect at least the wheel speeds to go up for a short spike, showing the wheelspin?

Nope... Seems like touching the kerb with the inside rear tyre simply made that tyre slide sideways and that's it.
Meaning my throttle input didn't matter, apparently, since the wheel speeds didn't even go up.

Maybe it was the 1-point-contact issue, or how it was called in ACC: Kerb of death?


View attachment 598231

Some kerbs are just a no-go. Or you can use a certain part of the kerb but nowhere else. What looks at high speed to be a smooth kerb neatly transitioning back to the track is often not the case.

 

[RasmusP]

Some kerbs are just a no-go. Or you can use a certain part of the kerb but nowhere else. What looks at high speed to be a smooth kerb neatly transitioning back to the track is often not the case.

Indeed.. Although looking at the telemetry, there's really no indicator about some "rough" transition or anything. It's like the AC god snapped his fingers and I spun.
Later in the race I took the exact same kerb quite a few times without any issues...

 

[Kek700]

My second off in the McLaren had no substantial obvious happening, the car just got a Little bit side ways, perhaps 5 deg. This continued “un-noticed” by me for about 30 odd meters.
From the replay, ( cannot see tyre temps ) i just assumed it put the cars tyres into the red, then it was game over.
It was so slow , I had time to go full throttle, then half throttle, then add more and more steering lock, all to no avail.

So my problem is , if I had seen it immediately I could have flicked the steering wheel into opposite lock and caught it early, and I am quite sure it would have soon resigned itself to a brief scary moment.
It is how do you spot that initial few degrees, I can certainly dial most of it out with setup, but then I now have a slow car.

Perplexed Ernie.

 

[RasmusP]

My second off in the McLaren had no substantial obvious happening, the car just got a Little bit side ways, perhaps 5 deg. This continued “un-noticed” by me for about 30 odd meters.
From the replay, ( cannot see tyre temps ) i just assumed it put the cars tyres into the red, then it was game over.
It was so slow , I had time to go full throttle, then half throttle, then add more and more steering lock, all to no avail.

So my problem is , if I had seen it immediately I could have flicked the steering wheel into opposite lock and caught it early, and I am quite sure it would have soon resigned itself to a brief scary moment.
It is how do you spot that initial few degrees, I can certainly dial most of it out with setup, but then I now have a slow car.

Perplexed Ernie.

View attachment 598251

I'll drop you a pm over the next days. We should jump into discord and then I'll edit your CSP config to activate the "more accurate gyro" and the "steering range compression".
That might help with this!
Steering range compression works like an audio compressor.
Making the ffb go from classic Rock to modern edm (Creedance Clearwater Revival vs Ava Max (Google her if you want an example haha).

And the csp gyro makes the dynamic damping from the spinning front wheels (gyro effect) actually dynamic to what the tyre is currently doing.
The default gyro is simply a speed dependant damping, always in the center position.
The new gyro will dampen the steering wheel at 270° during a slide, if that's where the front tyres are "pointing straight", although the rear is sliding ofc.

That leads to quite a different ffb in certain situations since if the rear steps out, the dampened area will instantly move away from the center position, making the steering wheel become way more lively if you keep it in center position.


Do we have some pro animation artist here? Words are really difficult to use and understand for this stuff, lol

 

[HF2000]

I'll drop you a pm over the next days. We should jump into discord and then I'll edit your CSP config to activate the "more accurate gyro" and the "steering range compression".
That might help with this!
Steering range compression works like an audio compressor.
Making the ffb go from classic Rock to modern edm (Creedance Clearwater Revival vs Ava Max (Google her if you want an example haha).

And the csp gyro makes the dynamic damping from the spinning front wheels (gyro effect) actually dynamic to what the tyre is currently doing.
The default gyro is simply a speed dependant damping, always in the center position.
The new gyro will dampen the steering wheel at 270° during a slide, if that's where the front tyres are "pointing straight", although the rear is sliding ofc.

That leads to quite a different ffb in certain situations since if the rear steps out, the dampened area will instantly move away from the center position, making the steering wheel become way more lively if you keep it in center position.


Do we have some pro animation artist here? Words are really difficult to use and understand for this stuff, lol

I'm interested in this also. Can you post a screenshot of your setting?

 

[demetri]

To be honest I have no idea about AC.. It's sometimes just a mystery!
Here's my spin at Zandvoort, entry to apex of the last corner.
You can clearly see the spin in my throttle trace, steering input and the slip angles.
I then tried to find out what caused it.
But there are NO signs of anything happening in the suspension graphs, ride height, wheel speeds, tyre grip, temperature, tyre loads, anything!
I mean I'd expect at least the wheel speeds to go up for a short spike, showing the wheelspin?

Nope... Seems like touching the kerb with the inside rear tyre simply made that tyre slide sideways and that's it.
Meaning my throttle input didn't matter, apparently, since the wheel speeds didn't even go up.

Maybe it was the 1-point-contact issue, or how it was called in ACC: Kerb of death?


View attachment 598231

Do you have a video of that spin? I wonder how much contact you had with the curb. This is one of those curbs that you don't want to ride over as nothing good ever comes out of it, but it shouldn't be an insta-spin.

I made a mistake in the race and hit that curb, but only had to do a minor correction to catch it (though maybe easing on the throttle just before going over the curb helped to minimize the consequences)

 

[demetri]

My second off in the McLaren had no substantial obvious happening, the car just got a Little bit side ways, perhaps 5 deg. This continued “un-noticed” by me for about 30 odd meters.
From the replay, ( cannot see tyre temps ) i just assumed it put the cars tyres into the red, then it was game over.
It was so slow , I had time to go full throttle, then half throttle, then add more and more steering lock, all to no avail.

So my problem is , if I had seen it immediately I could have flicked the steering wheel into opposite lock and caught it early, and I am quite sure it would have soon resigned itself to a brief scary moment.
It is how do you spot that initial few degrees, I can certainly dial most of it out with setup, but then I now have a slow car.

Perplexed Ernie.

View attachment 598251

30 odd meters is more than half a second at that speed (~150 km/h). This is probably too late to correct a slide and the tires might already get toasted also given how much heat they already picked up from another fast corner just before that

 

[Kek700]

As you seem to agree Dimitry, that makes me think I was right about tyres going toasty red.
No there was no contact with anything just a 5 deg angle slide. barely noticeable?
when you look at my entry there is nothing wrong, kept some throttle, trail braked into the corner, and the entry was on the racing line.
never even touch the outside kerb.

strange.

 

[Interslice]

Do you have a video of that spin? I wonder how much contact you had with the curb. This is one of those curbs that you don't want to ride over as nothing good ever comes out of it, but it shouldn't be an insta-spin.

I made a mistake in the race and hit that curb, but only had to do a minor correction to catch it (though maybe easing on the throttle just before going over the curb helped to minimize the consequences)

Ye it would be interesting to see if the video show what the telemetry does't. The back half of the kerb is especially dodgy where it slopes back down to the grass. There is also a 20-30mm lip dropping back to the track.

 

[Interslice]

As you seem to agree Dimitry, that makes me think I was right about tyres going toasty red.
No there was no contact with anything just a 5 deg angle slide. barely noticeable?
when you look at my entry there is nothing wrong, kept some throttle, trail braked into the corner, and the entry was on the racing line.
never even touch the outside kerb.

strange.

Around that time when you spun, I always find that ot the race the sketchiest. In the ferrari on softs in particular so i guess similar tinthe mclaren. Still alot of fuel on board and the tyres are starting to off a bit. In around the 85 tire wear on the sidekick app.

 

[demetri]

As you seem to agree Dimitry, that makes me think I was right about tyres going toasty red.
No there was no contact with anything just a 5 deg angle slide. barely noticeable?
when you look at my entry there is nothing wrong, kept some throttle, trail braked into the corner, and the entry was on the racing line.
never even touch the outside kerb.

strange.

You might have had just a bit more rotation than was needed there and coupled with hot tires it was the straw that broke the camel's back and then it all went downhill from there due to more heat->less grip->more rear slide->more heat etc. Adding more throttle didn't help because it wasn't originally caused by the weight transfer. Sudden Rear Grip Loss Syndrome, not much you could do about that

 

[The Almighty Snark]

I'm interested in this also. Can you post a screenshot of your setting?

Same! I would be quite interested in this too! AC definitely has a "And I took that personally" vibe when you ride a tyre onto certain kerbs.

 

[RasmusP]

I'm interested in this also. Can you post a screenshot of your setting?

Same! I would be quite interested in this too! AC definitely has a "And I took that personally" vibe when you ride a tyre onto certain kerbs.

Sure thing
Not that complicated, here they are:

The important part: CSP FFB Tweaks. I'm not sure with which version all that stuff got implemented but gyro and range compression is there since quite a few iterations iirc!
Active the new gyro, range compression to 150% for a bit more low-ffb-boost and the range compression assist to make it more uniform with the very few cars that have the "steering assist" setting in the car setup menu.