AC GT3 @ Kyalami, Sunday 7th March 2021

Kek700 · Mar 5, 2021

Badly.

demetri · Mar 5, 2021

RasmusP said:
I did a 1:42.7xx with mouse steering and keyboard for throttle/brake/shifting. Without riding any kerb since you can't control it with the mouse steering.. (I can't at least).

Default is.. weird would not even be a fitting term!
There's the setup from Phils from his GT3 setup pack for Mugello. That setup is useable!

My setup is a mix of the default, Phils' and one from Ernie. It's altered so heavily that I'd say it's "mine" now.
Here it is if you wanna test it:

AI did 1:43 flat with this, a big improvement, but it also did 1:43.1 with default setup and softs plus shorter gears. I guess whatever weirdness there is it doesn't affect AI

demetri · Mar 5, 2021

Goblin616 said:
I wonder how a race would go if we used restrictors / ballast to balance out the cars per FIA regs

I don't think GT3 cars in AC match their real life counterparts all that well specs-wise, so if you blindly apply real-life BoP you'll probably end up with some nonsense. BoPing them as per their performance in AC is too much work and would require someone fast and equally proficient in all 9 cars. If you think your car is handicapped too much you can always pick a faster car.
Remember, those AI times are not very good estimates. I did a 2 seconds faster lap than AI in the Audi and I think it wasn't even a very good lap, as I'm still learning the track

demetri · Mar 5, 2021

Goblin616 said:
That track guide... that's basically the racing line I use - so why is he 4s faster than I am!

I didn't realise my first day of practice I was using a 4% restrictor, so down 20hp.

4% restrictor is not down 20 hp, it's much less. I don't remember the formula, but I recall that last GT3 AC season in ACRL the Audi had 5% plus 20kg ballast and it made it about a second slower on normal tracks.

RasmusP · Mar 5, 2021

demetri said:
I don't think GT3 cars in AC match their real life counterparts all that well specs-wise, so if you blindly apply real-life BoP you'll probably end up with some nonsense. BoPing them as per their performance in AC is too much work and would require someone fast and equally proficient in all 9 cars. If you think your car is handicapped too much you can always pick a faster car.
Remember, those AI times are not very good estimates. I did a 2 seconds faster lap than AI in the Audi and I think it wasn't even a very good lap, as I'm still learning the track

The next problem would be that even if you get them to do exactly the same lap time, the McLaren wouldn't stand a chance at the Nordschleife for example. It would always get overtaken on the long straights and then, since it would be made heavier, not have a chance to get far enough away throughout the twisty sections.

I think the cars are very nicely balanced to be equal while fighting. So there would only be a need for bop in qualifying, which doesn't make much sense...

In the end you could probably spend a few hundred hours bop'ing the cars and still make it worse for some tracks..

The McLaren seems to be the fastest on almost every track but whenever I drive it, I get stuck behind the heavier cars and can't pass them and then get overtaken from behind on the next straight...

demetri · Mar 5, 2021

RasmusP said:
The next problem would be that even if you get them to do exactly the same lap time, the McLaren wouldn't stand a chance at the Nordschleife for example. It would always get overtaken on the long straights and then, since it would be made heavier, not have a chance to get far enough away throughout the twisty sections.

I think the cars are very nicely balanced to be equal while fighting. So there would only be a need for bop in qualifying, which doesn't make much sense...

In the end you could probably spend a few hundred hours bop'ing the cars and still make it worse for some tracks..

The McLaren seems to be the fastest on almost every track but whenever I drive it, I get stuck behind the heavier cars and can't pass them and then get overtaken from behind on the next straight...

Ha-ha. I remember one race at Nords in ACRL when I was in the Audi with 35 kg success ballast and the guy behind (whom I managed to outqualify by mere .002s, lucky me) was driving a McLaren witthout one because it was his first race in the season. He was stuck to my rear bumper basically on the whole track and still couldn't pass me on Dottinger Hohe even using all he draft he had, because I was doing almost 300 km/h (totally unrealistic, by the way) by myself and his McLaren couldn't. That was lap after lap after lap.

Chris Down · Mar 5, 2021

Goblin616 said:
I wonder how a race would go if we used restrictors / ballast to balance out the cars per FIA regs

I feel compelled to reply that if you can drive it that fast, you're more than welcome to use it

(But seriously, people vastly overestimate the effect of the car. If you stick with any car long enough I think you'll find that the GT3 cars in AC are, at most, all within less than 0.5s of each other in varying orders on most tracks.)

demetri · Mar 5, 2021

Chris Down said:
I feel compelled to reply that if you can drive it that fast, you're more than welcome to use it

(But seriously, people vastly overestimate the effect of the car. If you stick with any car long enough I think you'll find that the GT3 cars in AC are, at most, all within less than 0.5s of each other in varying orders on most tracks.)

Except Porsche maybe. That one does bad almost everywhere mainly because of the issues with its tires

RobertR1 · Mar 5, 2021

Restrictor formula:

HP_Final = HP_Original*(1-rpm*(restrictor_in_percent/4000000))

Goblin616 · Mar 5, 2021

demetri said:
I don't think GT3 cars in AC match their real life counterparts all that well specs-wise, so if you blindly apply real-life BoP you'll probably end up with some nonsense. BoPing them as per their performance in AC is too much work and would require someone fast and equally proficient in all 9 cars. If you think your car is handicapped too much you can always pick a faster car.
Remember, those AI times are not very good estimates. I did a 2 seconds faster lap than AI in the Audi and I think it wasn't even a very good lap, as I'm still learning the track

Firstly, it's not that difficult. Every car has it's P/W ratio stated. The maths for how much ballast or restrictor to add is simple division. It doesn't mean each car would have the exact same time. It's down to the drivers - but the point of the balance is to remove the P/W advantage of any of the cars.

demetri said:
4% restrictor is not down 20 hp, it's much less. I don't remember the formula, but I recall that last GT3 AC season in ACRL the Audi had 5% plus 20kg ballast and it made it about a second slower on normal tracks.

*edit* See following post** The restrictor goes from 0-100%. The AMG has 520hp. 4% is 20hp. The Audi shouldn't use any restrictor because it has 500hp, which is shared with the lowest. A 5% reduction is 25hp, so the car would be running 475hp with 20kg extra - so no wonder it was slower. At 2.54kg/hp it shares the highest Mass/Power ratio and wouldn't use any restrictor or ballast. The 911 has 500hp, but mass of 1245. It needs a 1270mass to equal the Audi, so would use a ballast of 25kg.

Chris Down said:
I feel compelled to reply that if you can drive it that fast, you're more than welcome to use it

(But seriously, people vastly overestimate the effect of the car. If you stick with any car long enough I think you'll find that the GT3 cars in AC are, at most, all within less than 0.5s of each other in varying orders on most tracks.)

I'm not saying I'm super faster, or that it would change the field dramatically, but by making each car have the same P/W (or in this case mass to power) ratio of 2.54kg/hp (the highest) it would be interesting to see how it goes.

Goblin616 · Mar 5, 2021

RobertR1 said:
Restrictor formula:

HP_Final = HP_Original*(1-rpm*(restrictor_in_percent/4000000))

Is this really the formula? Well if that's complex, then we'd only need to add ballast which is a much simpler formula.

With this formula, it means the AMG goes from 520hp, to 516.62 @ 6500. So I guess it's slightly less, but the formula probably takes into account airflow so you lose less power at low RPM, and really only lose power in the racing range (approx 3000 rpm from the top)

RobertR1 · Mar 5, 2021

I certainly didn’t make up the formula. Premier leagues like ACRL took a long time and input from elite drives to come up with GT3 bop figures even those were a moving target season to season. Drivers adapt, track and conditions changes, game version changes etc. all require an ongoing tuning.

I recently helped bop a few older gts class cars. A simple question like do I bop them out of box or setup tuned? To what degree? Am I tuning them to .2 a lap or 1sec a lap? How does my times compare to other drivers giving their input? Do I leave a difficult to drive car with more performance headroom than an easier car? BoP sounds easy until you try to do it.

RD is more laid back club racing, not league racing and that’s very clear in the rules, expectations and the environment being promoted. BoP isn’t needed here.

Fiberoptix · Mar 5, 2021

demetri said:
Except Porsche maybe. That one does bad almost everywhere mainly because of the issues with its tires

Goblin616 said:
Is this really the formula? Well if that's complex, then we'd only need to add ballast which is a much simpler formula.

With this formula, it means the AMG goes from 520hp, to 516.62 @ 6500. So I guess it's slightly less, but the formula probably takes into account airflow so you lose less power at low RPM, and really only lose power in the racing range (approx 3000 rpm from the top)

I have to say as an amateur who has barely touched a setup and only really driven one car so far this does sound like a level of complication I could do without. Interesting reading though

Guess its a pro conversation, that said I am happy for everybody else to put two bags of virtual cement in their boot if it makes me more competitive.

Kek700 · Mar 5, 2021

As I have said many times, I drive 5 different cars, choosing the most appropriate for individual circuits, but I don’t always go for the fastest , quite often going for the Nissan, even though it is not the quickest.
You would probably have to treat the Nissan and AMG with the least BOP and that would not be fair, on some circuits the Nissan is very capable, but it is a big old bus.
Bop would ruin the whole AC GT3 class.

Goblin616 · Mar 5, 2021

RobertR1 said:
I certainly didn’t make up the formula. Premier leagues like ACRL took a long time and input from elite drives to come up with GT3 bop figures even those were a moving target season to season. Drivers adapt, track and conditions changes, game version changes etc. all require an ongoing tuning.

I recently helped bop a few older gts class cars. A simple question like do I bop them out of box or setup tuned? To what degree? Am I tuning them to .2 a lap or 1sec a lap? How does my times compare to other drivers giving their input? Do I leave a difficult to drive car with more performance headroom than an easier car? BoP sounds easy until you try to do it.

RD is more laid back club racing, not league racing and that’s very clear in the rules, expectations and the environment being promoted. BoP isn’t needed here.

IDEK What BOP means and urban dictionary is no help.

RobertR1 · Mar 5, 2021

Now I feel like I’m in the understeer thread.

Kek700 · Mar 5, 2021

Balance of performance.

what does IDEK mean

I don’t even know, wife just told me.

demetri · Mar 5, 2021

Goblin616 said:
Firstly, it's not that difficult. Every car has it's P/W ratio stated. The maths for how much ballast or restrictor to add is simple division. It doesn't mean each car would have the exact same time. It's down to the drivers - but the point of the balance is to remove the P/W advantage of any of the cars.

Firstly, whatever you seen printed in the car descriptions and shown on Power/Torque charts does not match the actual physics data. Sometimes, by quite a lot.
Secondly, P/W is not the whole story. Old Audi has much better P/W (much more hp and a bit less weight) than the new one, but it isn't faster because the new one has much less drag in the physics files