AC GT3 @ Brands Hatch - Sunday 14th June 2020

[Locoblade]

Another fascinating subject Han - super-quick guys like Evgeniy using fairly old tech, and the rest of the spectrum from the best/worst gear, fastest/slowest drivers.

I sometimes wonder if it's something to do with what we're used to - I'm forever searching for the feeling I had when driving quick cars 40+ yrs ago, whereas someone used to gaming might require, or have, different ways of reacting to input/feedback... I guess there's many other 'examples too; for example someone who's got many years of driving games/sims experience (including setup idiosyncrasies between real and virtual cars), and not much actual road driving. Certainly not saying any are better or worse, just different.

Having tried some decent pedals (they were hydraulic) I'm looking to upgrade asap, for what I want out of sims they seemed ideal - gave me more speed, but in particular, much better consistency. Only a year to wait

I think you're right, I learned to drive quickly in a Caterham-esque kit car on trackdays and driving sims has made me realise that to push hard I rely quite heavily on knowing what the back end of the car is doing through my bum as much as anything, something you obviously you can't get from a sim at least not without a motion rig that can simulate yaw. Likewise braking, I find it difficult to judge if I'm braking at the limit from visual and audible cues alone because I'm used to judging it primarily from the feeling of retardation pushing me forwards on the belts etc.

Conversely if all you've ever done is drive fast on a sim then your brain has never had those extra real-life inputs to make use of so it probably adapts better to interpreting the visual and wheel feedback information it's given via the sim. Like anything I guess with time and experience your brain adapts (and I'm certainly a lot better now than I was a month ago when I first built my new gaming rig and dusted off the wheel) but I'm not sure I'll ever really drive as natually on a sim as I can in real life until it can replicate the same feeling of motion and rotation.

 

[Chris Down]

Another fascinating subject Han - super-quick guys like Evgeniy using fairly old tech, and the rest of the spectrum from the best/worst gear, fastest/slowest drivers.

I sometimes wonder if it's something to do with what we're used to - I'm forever searching for the feeling I had when driving quick cars 40+ yrs ago, whereas someone used to gaming might require, or have, different ways of reacting to input/feedback... I guess there's many other 'examples too; for example someone who's got many years of driving games/sims experience (including setup idiosyncrasies between real and virtual cars), and not much actual road driving. Certainly not saying any are better or worse, just different.

Having tried some decent pedals (they were hydraulic) I'm looking to upgrade asap, for what I want out of sims they seemed ideal - gave me more speed, but in particular, much better consistency. Only a year to wait

As someone who's competed semi-professionally in two completely separate classes of games now (TF2, where I was part of Core Gaming/Thermaltake, and sim racing, when I used to race for VIER eSports in Live for Speed), I'd say the most important thing is experience. The tools really don't make that much difference in performance. I raced with a stock DFGT for years and had plenty of good results. I also had a crap mouse when I used to play TF2 and the reality is, it doesn't matter once you've got used to its nuances.

In FPSes, there is a lot of established wisdom saying stuff like turn off mouse acceleration, make sure to get a mouse without too much prediction, etc, etc, but there were always amazing players who would play with some entry level mouse that violated all of the "good" qualities, or played with mouse acceleration on, and they would still be able to compete with the best. The reality is that experience with your game and equipment really trumps everything else, regardless of what game or equipment that is. People underestimate the importance of inertia: you've played with this equipment and know it inside out -- even if some "better" equipment can eke out 0.1% better performance, you're going to lose a lot more than that for a while while you get experience using it.

 

[Evgeniy Neytman]

I guess there's many other 'examples too; for example someone who's got many years of driving games/sims experience (including setup idiosyncrasies between real and virtual cars), and not much actual road driving. Certainly not saying any are better or worse, just different.

Well, it`s individual. As Chris said - well known hardware is better than new top hardware, of course if you current one is not crap But i do a lot of go-karts and this profile pic is taken from GT Academy Silverstone finals so you cant say i cant drive a car *joke*

BTW my favourite - 20hp superkart indoor racing from Moscow Karting Cup

 

[HF2000]

Another fascinating subject Han - super-quick guys like Evgeniy using fairly old tech, and the rest of the spectrum from the best/worst gear, fastest/slowest drivers.

I sometimes wonder if it's something to do with what we're used to - I'm forever searching for the feeling I had when driving quick cars 40+ yrs ago, whereas someone used to gaming might require, or have, different ways of reacting to input/feedback... I guess there's many other 'examples too; for example someone who's got many years of driving games/sims experience (including setup idiosyncrasies between real and virtual cars), and not much actual road driving. Certainly not saying any are better or worse, just different.

Having tried some decent pedals (they were hydraulic) I'm looking to upgrade asap, for what I want out of sims they seemed ideal - gave me more speed, but in particular, much better consistency. Only a year to wait

Of course I had several discussions with Enzo about this subject. He has now a great rig with direct drive wheel, triple screen or VR and of course Heusinkveld pedals. In his opinion such a rig doesn't improve his best laptimes. He can do that also with my G27 in a perfect lap. But for consistency and for fast corrections it should really help. And maybe even more important, it is apparently more fun to sit in a real racing position with more realistic response of the wheel and pedals.
I have never raced in real life. In fact, I have never owned a fast car. I drive a medium sized SUV (RAV4 Hybrid), not suited for racing at all. So my only race experience is when I joined RD 1 1/2 years ago. And it has been a lot of fun so I'm willing to invest if that maximizes that. Improvement in consistency will be a bonus then.

 

[erazerr7]

@Norkin no harm done! Although, I'm thinking that maybe I should consider using a blue Ferrari or something else heretic like that to stand out a bit more from the field

In terms of what gear to buy, I'd follow @Chris Down's route and say get gear with which you are comfortable and stick with it. Although it's true that DD and Heusinkveld pedals can't possibly do anything to "degrade" your sim experience, buying "better"/more expensive equipment will never make you objectively faster. As an example, looking at @Evgeniy Neytman you can see an example of a talented driver constantly finishing at the top end of the grid, doing the job by getting the most out of his equipment, and as he's been using the same setup for 2-3 years then he's probably very comfortable with what he's using... kinda like how people up front in these races tend to always keep the same car, i.e. @Chris Down and @Evgeniy Neytman with their 650s', @Aksu's meme GTR or my 488. Some of the top people on RSR lay down their World Record laps with nothing more than a G25 as well.

TL;DR imo it's all about consistency, whether it be on track, between vehicles, or with your physical setup itself. Knowing it all like the back of your hand is really what allows you to push your machinery to the max every time. Just make sure your kit is somehow well bolted down, whether that necessitates a chassis or some weird cable contraption because nobody likes a slidey set of pedals

If you're still wondering what to buy while having a decent wheel and pedal kit (Logitech quality or above), I'd recommend either getting a VR if your PC can handle it or installing a stiff brake pedal mod (doesn't need to be a load cell, anecdotally I'd say that it hasn't helped me all that much -if not at all- for how much it costs, but ofc that's only my opinion).

 

[Raresch]

@Norkin no harm done! Although, I'm thinking that maybe I should consider using a blue Ferrari or something else heretic like that to stand out a bit more from the field

In terms of what gear to buy, I'd follow @Chris Down's route and say get gear with which you are comfortable and stick with it. Although it's true that DD and Heusinkveld pedals can't possibly do anything to "degrade" your sim experience, buying "better"/more expensive equipment will never make you objectively faster. As an example, looking at @Evgeniy Neytman you can see an example of a talented driver constantly finishing at the top end of the grid, doing the job by getting the most out of his equipment, and as he's been using the same setup for 2-3 years then he's probably very comfortable with what he's using... kinda like how people up front in these races tend to always keep the same car, i.e. @Chris Down and @Evgeniy Neytman with their 650s', @Aksu's meme GTR or my 488. Some of the top people on RSR lay down their World Record laps with nothing more than a G25 as well.

TL;DR imo it's all about consistency, whether it be on track, between vehicles, or with your physical setup itself. Knowing it all like the back of your hand is really what allows you to push your machinery to the max every time. Just make sure your kit is somehow well bolted down, whether that necessitates a chassis or some weird cable contraption because nobody likes a slidey set of pedals

If you're still wondering what to buy while having a decent wheel and pedal kit (Logitech quality or above), I'd recommend either getting a VR if your PC can handle it or installing a stiff brake pedal mod (doesn't need to be a load cell, anecdotally I'd say that it hasn't helped me all that much -if not at all- for how much it costs, but ofc that's only my opinion).

I know it's not only about the equipment. I've heard the stories of G27 drivers competing in championships and winning since I first got here and in this hobby, 1year and a half ago. And as you said, it's the confidence you have in your gear that makes you faster ...
But what confidence can I have when sometimes I press the pedals to the max and the game see it as being on max, and on the next straight I press the same way but the game decides: mneah, this time I will say its 95-98, I can't decide yet, just because the potentiometers are unreliable?
I might not be the fastest and I know I have a lot to learn still, but I also have to see how much I've achieved in the last year. I know I am not the limit yet, but still, how can I actually be consistent when this time I heavily brake for the hairpin, and the next lap, after trail-braking, the pedal says on it's own: "I don't think you brake enough, let's add some more random braking there.".
I don't really want to upgrade for the sake of performance, but for the sake of reliability issue. Also, i don't want to sell a kidney for that )
I've trusted Logitech in building durable gears, my g502 proteus core has almost 5 years at the end of this summer and it's working like day 1 (minor some physical damage that doesn't affect performance and I've taken this mouse with me at school and work every day, so it's not like he stayed in one place), my g610 keyboard has 3 years and it's as new, my x530 sound system has 12 years ... So I didn't think they will build a product that has a so big vulnerability issue. It might just be the way potentiometers works, but they already did the same configuration in G27's, so they certainly should have known that? I am just a little disappointed with the pedals, to be honest, and I want something more reliable ... or a solution for the G29 pedals that is not so prone to usage wear ...

LE: but to be completely honest, having issues with potentiometers made me more careful with the pedals inputs, and in that regard, just a todd faster

 

[Chris Down]

Come join us next week for GT3 at the classic Spa!

EU - GT3 @ Spa - Sunday 21st June 2020

by Chris Down, link This week we're back to a classic of the calendar: Spa. Come join us for 60 minutes of racing action! Welcome to the Assetto Corsa racing club! This is the place to be for relaxed, friendly racing and our events are open to everybody from rookies to the seasoned pros...

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