AC GT3 @ Brands Hatch - Sunday 11th April 2021

[RasmusP]

Blue flags undoubtedly place pressure on the driver that is about to be lapped. Our incident, however, as explained in a pm, should've been a simple overtake. The reason it wasn't, was down to you drifting off the racing line.

A key component of racing is decision making. A simple [half] lift would've sufficed to avoid that collision.

As also mentioned in the pm, I hope you've reviewed the Road America race & how you effected myself & Aki on the last lap.

Oh that doesn't look too well

It seems like Jack is triggering you into "calling him out" but I have to say, I don't like this "public "shaming" " that's going on in the after-race-threads.
Dmitry did it to Hape for Okayama, Stefan to me..
Feels like these races are being taken too seriously.

I know all these feelings though. I was furious for some days in 2017 and 2018. But I really got my butt slapped by some staffs and grew from it.

Of course you're technically right Patrick, but I simply don't enjoy reading posts like yours
I do enjoy reading a lot of the other posts from you though!

Not saying you aren't allowed to write stuff like that, but I wanted to share my feelings about these kind of posts.

PS: There was also quite some space on the left of Jack to avoid the collision
But to be fair nobody can expect you to react that fast in the last minute of a race!

 

[jackdyson31]

Oh that doesn't look too well

It seems like Jack is triggering you into "calling him out" but I have to say, I don't like this "public "shaming" " that's going on in the after-race-threads.
Dmitry did it to Hape for Okayama, Stefan to me..
Feels like these races are being taken too seriously.

I know all these feelings though. I was furious for some days in 2017 and 2018. But I really got my butt slapped by some staffs and grew from it.

Of course you're technically right Patrick, but I simply don't enjoy reading posts like yours
I do enjoy reading a lot of the other posts from you though!

Not saying you aren't allowed to write stuff like that, but I wanted to share my feelings about these kind of posts.

PS: There was also quite some space on the left of Jack to avoid the collision
But to be fair nobody can expect you to react that fast in the last minute of a race!

Indebted to you as always Rasmus - I don't like reading them either, but its ok if I was wrong and if Patrick has never made a mistake himself. There is no public shame for me - I am a competitor. But that said, there is a rule for letting people past at the next corner and Patrick knows it well. The only thing he is exposing here is himself.

 

[pattikins]

Indebted to you as always Rasmus - I don't like reading them either, but its ok if I was wrong and if Patrick has never made a mistake himself. There is no public shame for me - I am a competitor. But that said, there is a rule for letting people past at the next corner and Patrick knows it well. The only thing he is exposing here is himself.

Lets stick to the facts. What rule?

 

[Fiberoptix]

All I can think when I read these is I really hope I don't cause an incident..! I know for a fact that could have easily been me in all of them particularly the one you talked us through @RasmusP due to inexperience/lack of talent. Perhaps I have just been lucky until now..

oh dear now that definitely is me setting myself up for a whopper of a mistake in the next race and having it dissected on here for several days afterwards.

 

[jackdyson31]

Lets stick to the facts. What rule?

The one which says I lift for you to go past on the straight after the next corner (or the exit of this very corner) on the straight you have joined me on- I have no obligation to let you past before that.

I learned that in the MX5 races.

 

[jackdyson31]

All I can think when I read these is I really hope I don't cause an incident..! I know for a fact that could have easily been me in all of them particularly the one you talked us through @RasmusP due to inexperience/lack of talent. Perhaps I have just been lucky until now..

oh dear now that definitely is me setting myself up for a whopper of a mistake in the next race and having it dissected on here for several days afterwards.

If anything happens with me mate, I can assure you a quick PM and chit-chat and that would be the end of it - I would never dream of reporting people or starting a barney especially because this is racing and I know we all will make a mistake here and there.

I completely appreciate what you say but I promise you most people here are very giving. My behaviour this time was a bit wrong for certain things, I didn't always realise it from inside the cockpit because I did not have the info (now corrected) - but people have been very very nice to me about it. So I would urge you not to worry. Sorry if all this makes you uncomfortable

 

[pattikins]

The one which says I lift for you to go past on the straight after the next corner (or the exit of this very corner) on the straight you have joined me on- I have no obligation to let you past before that.

I learned that in the MX5 races.

You can find the rules here

See Additional Rules, rule 6. Yes, I've seen rule 8.

 

[jackdyson31]

You can find the rules here

See Additional Rules, rule 6. Yes, I've seen rule 8.

Absolutely Pat, thanks for pointing that out:

"Do not alter your line or braking for a faster car behind you. Unpredictable moves have a way of ending the race for both of you. Let the faster car dictate when and where to initiate a pass, and only then assist by easing off of the throttle."

and I believe I have explained about 10 times that I didn't see you move left and also apologised for it. That was my mistake, your race didn't end luckily for both of us - it is the same rule as when driving cars on the road isn't it ? No sudden maneuver ? So, absolutely you are right and I thank you for pointing it out - I have said it before and I'll say it here - that was my mistake, so sorry for that.

Now there is also rule 9 :

"Follow all safety rules as if you were in a real car on a real track; use the pit speed limiter in pit lane, observe all safety flags and lights, no donuts in the pit lane or on the track, no deliberate distraction of other drivers, etc."

Here I might infer not to close me too quickly and catch me unawares as well as please do wait until the next corner exit so I can lift and let you by safely (that is an unwritten rule as far as I have been taught).

 

[Kek700]

I really feel for newcomers here on our online racing events, especially having aggressive racers like me breathing down their necks looking for every opportunity to overtake.

 

[jackdyson31]

big hug Ernie

 

[pattikins]

Oh that doesn't look too well

It seems like Jack is triggering you into "calling him out" but I have to say, I don't like this "public "shaming" " that's going on in the after-race-threads.
Dmitry did it to Hape for Okayama, Stefan to me..
Feels like these races are being taken too seriously.

I know all these feelings though. I was furious for some days in 2017 and 2018. But I really got my butt slapped by some staffs and grew from it.

Of course you're technically right Patrick, but I simply don't enjoy reading posts like yours
I do enjoy reading a lot of the other posts from you though!

Not saying you aren't allowed to write stuff like that, but I wanted to share my feelings about these kind of posts.

PS: There was also quite some space on the left of Jack to avoid the collision
But to be fair nobody can expect you to react that fast in the last minute of a race!

You're right. It doesn't look good. I do, however, strongly believe in the right of reply. I ignored the first reference to the incident (see #101), and pm'd Jack. The second (indirect) & third (direct) reference to me, in my opinion, warranted a reply. That's it. I'm not angry or 'furious'.

p.m. I'd like to see you make a sudden change of direction with worn out tires

 

[HF2000]

Guys, I don't want to point at anyone here but I don't like the way this conversation is evolving.

Please, be constructive, positive and helpful in these threads. This is not the place to criticize other drivers personally and in public.

If you have a problem with a participant's behavior, send them a PM to discuss it with them. If you believe this behavior is illegal and will not be an incident after hearing the other person, send a report so staff can evaluate and take appropriate action.

I want to organize events that are as fun as educational and not generating friction between drivers.
But we all play our role in that by the level of tolerance we apply.

 

[Chris Down]

I agree strongly with Han. For years we have operated under the premise that if you have a problem with another driver's conduct, the first thing you must do before any staff will even look at your problem at all is take it up with them in PM. This is a really important step, because it provides a space for frank discussion without all the pressure of everyone watching.

The most important part of a club is that you should assume good faith on the part of the other person, and try to work with them (and staff if necessary) to improve things. We have staff, but a club is a community endeavour: it's up to everyone to help keep the atmosphere friendly. No amount of moderation can do that, it's really up to you folks.

 

[jackdyson31]

I agree strongly with Han. For years we have operated under the premise that if you have a problem with another driver's conduct, the first thing you must do before any staff will even look at your problem at all is take it up with them in PM. This is a really important step, because it provides a space for frank discussion without all the pressure of everyone watching.

The most important premise of a club is that you should assume good faith on the part of the other person, and try to work with them (and staff if necessary) to improve things. We have staff, but a club is a community endeavour: it's up to everyone to help keep the atmosphere friendly. No amount of moderation can do that, it's really up to you folks.

Sorry Chris didn't mean to let you down mate.

 

[adie_the_badie]

I suppose I should chime in here seeing as my race report post was the kick-starter for this entire conversation. First, after reading through it all I must say I've learned quite a bit and can take other people's incidents and situations into the next race . Secondly, I feel as though I owe you an apology @jackdyson31 I knew you were a blue flag due to the realtime app and raced you without speaking up to notify you . This decision caused some confusion and did not help in any way. So, I'm sorry for this action/decision and I'll be sure to speak up next time.

 

[jackdyson31]

I suppose I should chime in here seeing as my race report post was the kick-starter for this entire conversation. First, after reading through it all I must say I've learned quite a bit and can take other people's incidents and situations into the next race . Secondly, I feel as though I owe you an apology @jackdyson31 I knew you were a blue flag due to the realtime app and raced you without speaking up to notify you . This decision caused some confusion and did not help in any way. So, I'm sorry for this action/decision and I'll be sure to speak up next time.

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lol that is so funny you chiming in like that ! Nah come on there is no problem from my side - race you any day, a beer and laughs later ok? Thanks a lot for your candidness nonetheless

I think we all learned something!

 

[random2k4]

Stefan to me..

woot when , cant remember?

@Taj Johal As Rasmus already analyzed, in my Car Radar, you were not along side me. Thats why I moved over to the right. Hope this works here is a short clip of the maneuver.

https://streamable.com/e/2nbc0e

Downhill Paddock was enough room for both of us, and I hugged the curbs as much as possible. Knowing my exit speed would be greater then yours.
Breaked at my typical marker for Druids , knowing you in the Lambo would need to break a little earlier then the Z4. Had to make a slight correction while accelerating out of Druids. Also the inside was blocked with Linus, so I stayed on the outer line and coulndt get to the apex. For me the overtake was over at that point and I focused on the next corner combination. Thats then you were with your nose at my rear bumper. Not actual, just speaking of the distance here. Going into Graham you were this close only once again for a split second. The moment I hit the breaks my car radar showed me we didnt overlap, and you already started to fall behind which made me assume you already hit the breaks. Again Z4s need to break a little later. I moved a little to the right to get a better corner entry. And I saw you lost even more distance to me. Thought you had enough room to break. While I was turning in, you came suddenly closer, thats when you hit the grass I guess. I could have breaked a little earlier to let more room on the outside, I was just super focused on getting back through the field as fast as possible. I think the "Last lap" time shows that.

Again Rasmus made a superb analyzes already. I also will keep in mind to try to give a little more room to the drivers at the end of the field. Racing all the time against Rasmus, Han and Ernie only teaches you to not give away an inch

PS: is there an option to embed the video? the normal embed function does not work for that link.

 

[demetri]

Wow, I guess missed all the drama. I feel for Patrick, he definitely got screwed in that one, not that it mattered much at that point of the race, but I can understand his frustration. I was lucky with backmarkers in the race, but there's clearly a big skill gap between the drivers and on short and tight tracks like Brands Hatch this often causes issues. I'd say this, if you're about to get lapped and the faster car got an overlap with you on a straight, but likely won't be able to get in the clear till the next turn you better lift-off a little. That way you won't have to go side-by-side and lose lots of time, both of you. The "rule" (written or not) about letting someone pass on the next straight is for situations when the lapping car coming to a turn right behind you. This was not one of those

 

[RasmusP]

woot when , cant remember?

Nicely picked

Right after the race you wrote like our contact would've been my fault, Dmitry underlined this with his replay.
But my own replay, which showed my own car correctly (and your car probably incorrectly), showed that it wasn't my fault.

But I didn't mention this because I really felt blamed in public, all good!
I mentioned it because probably lots of us remember our little discussion
So I added it to my little list there.

It wasn't really "bad" or anything but it didn't feel great either

 

[random2k4]

Nicely picked

Right after the race you wrote like our contact would've been my fault, Dmitry underlined this with his replay.
But my own replay, which showed my own car correctly (and your car probably incorrectly), showed that it wasn't my fault.

But I didn't mention this because I really felt blamed in public, all good!
I mentioned it because probably lots of us remember our little discussion
So I added it to my little list there.

It wasn't really "bad" or anything but it didn't feel great either

Was it Okayama? I thought we settled in on a net-code issue?