rF2 Grand-Am @ Daytona Road Course - Thu Aug 5th 2010

[James Johnson]

OK so despite the fact that in this race you were absolutely on the same level as us (racers) you took it upon yourself in the third race to say GO before even the start finish straight, even though on a rolling start it has always been the leader's duty to control the field? :/

Someone has to take some control so that it doesnt end up in another crashfest.. And i did say before the last restart that to avoid the crashes that you will start racing from the exit of the turn onto the banking and guess what.. It was a much better start. But you will moan anyways because you crashed after a few laps and you feel hard done by because we had to restart because of a pile up. Also these cars are very sensetive to hits. One small hit into a wall could end up you losing a wheel. Up to 4-5 People each time in the 2 restarts had terminal damage from pileups on the standing start. So if no one actually took charge whats the point of doing another standing start if everyones just gonna do the same again?

 

[Toby Davis]

Someone has to take some control so that it doesnt end up in another crashfest.. And i did say before the last restart that to avoid the crashes that you will start racing from the exit of the turn onto the banking and guess what.. It was a much better start. But you will moan anyways because you crashed after a few laps and you feel hard done by because we had to restart because of a pile up. Also these cars are very sensetive to hits. One small hit into a wall could end up you losing a wheel. Up to 4-5 People each time in the 2 restarts had terminal damage from pileups on the standing start. So if no one actually took charge whats the point of doing another standing start if everyones just gonna do the same again?

It's just racing. It's tough luck if you can't start a car properly off the line - practice in the warmup or something first, it just shows that you don't take it seriously enough if you can't do a start.

My biggest gripe with you saying GO was that it was before the chicane, so you had people accelerating at different times on the banking because it's always off the last corner with a rolling start... so actually you didn't improve the situation at all. Not that it needed improving. And who put you in a position to do that? What makes you think you should be above us, to be fair?

I crashed, yes, fair enough, I limped back to the pits and they didn't repair anything for some reason, so I quit. No harm done, I don't care at all about that, that's just racing, just like if someone messed up off the start, that's just racing. I don't know where Ryan is by the way, would be nice to have his input...

 

[Adam Eggbeer]

And i did say before the last restart that to avoid the crashes that you will start racing from the exit of the turn onto the banking and guess what.. It was a much better start.

I somehow missed that message before the restart as I believed that we were starting at the start/finish line. By the sounds of it, I wasn't the only one, however I am not saying that you didn't say it because someone else has told me that you said it. I presume it got displayed along with 10 other messages all at the same time as we changed session. One other thing about the final restart was that some people were not going to their original quali positions which did cause a few problems.

 

[Toby Davis]

I somehow missed that message before the restart as I believed that we were starting at the start/finish line. By the sounds of it, I wasn't the only one, however I am not saying that you didn't say it because someone else has told me that you said it. I presume it got displayed along with 10 other messages all at the same time as we changed session. One other thing about the final restart was that some people were not going to their original quali positions which did cause a few problems.

Yep, it was a mess. Someone randomly decides we should have a rolling start, someone else says go, only half way round the lap... can you not see why I am concerned that this could set a precedent for other races, whereby people think this kind of behaviour on the normally very respectable RD servers is OK?

 

[James Johnson]

I somehow missed that message before the restart as I believed that we were starting at the start/finish line. By the sounds of it, I wasn't the only one, however I am not saying that you didn't say it because someone else has told me that you said it. I presume it got displayed along with 10 other messages all at the same time as we changed session. One other thing about the final restart was that some people were not going to their original quali positions which did cause a few problems.

Yeh i said it before people started voting which ment that it basically wasnt seen for long before it was gone.

 

[James Johnson]

My biggest gripe with you saying GO was that it was before the chicane,

But before the race i said that you should go at the banking not the chicane. The track is too long for us to be going slow all the way down the long back straight. By time we get down the chicane there would only be 43-42min left of the race so thats why i said that you should go at the first banking so that we have more time racing. In events at RD where we are at a track longer than 3-4mins on a formation lap there would be a preset place where racing would start and i though the safest place for the race to start and not take too long on the formation lap would be coming off the infield onto the banking. And i'm not saying i'm putting myself above you i'm just trying to make sure that the event actually got started safely. But if you want no one to do anything when the race start has failed twice i wont do nothing next time then everyone can have a miserable time.

 

[Chris Butcher]

All seems like a massive farce to me, dont understand why James would be empowered to make decisions like that rather than continue with a normal rolling start. Clearly added to the confusion.I feel sorry for Ryan because his had work ended in this. I'm bored of this argument, to have people suggest I think I should be treated differently is ridiculous. See you all at the next race

 

[Lee Palmer]

Seirously what is with this power debate... It makes no sense. No one Said "No" or disagreed with the rolling start in the chat. The race had been messed up and James tried to make it better and now people are complain the rolling start was a bad idea. James was in no way saying he was better than anyone. He was tyring to get the race started in a fair way for all.

 

[Toby Davis]

If there had to be a restart, which there didn't after the first one, then we should have talked and discussed how to do it, which we didn't, and then there was confusion, and then when someone says GO halfway round a warmup lap (which never ever happens in a real race, let alone on RD)...

 

[Bjorn de Haas]

Ok guys please stop this discussion or debate in this thread now and if there are problems contact a staff member ok..
Racing should be about having fun.

 

[Dave Stephenson]

guys,

Enough of the back biting and arguing, I'm only going to post this once. You would think this would calm down a little after Bram's earlier warning but I guess not.

This arguing solves nothing. Ryan is busy with exams today you all think its fine to create this hell hole of a thread to return to. It says no-where in the event details or the server set-up that this race is to have a standing start, so it doesn't have one. End of story. The shout of 'GO' and impromptu, un-organised rolling starts should not be required in the first place as you shouldn't be re-starting the race.

If people crash at the start tough. Its your responsibility as a driver to ensure you are properly prepared for the event, including the standing start. If you crash and its not your fault there are proper well published ways to go about resolving this. PMs and race reports to the event organiser are the only acceptable way to resolve these without having an admin present to make the call to restart. You should be able to be trusted in the few events when an admin is not around to just get on and enjoy your racing.

Fair play to James for attempting to assume some control and get everyone racing but the end result according to these reports was equally as frustrating to many and the reason why we ask that people don't change from the published plan of events. It seems he is being the fall guy here when there are more than him at fault. He couldn't action a restart on his own.

I wasn't there so I know I can't comment fully on the events but I don't want to see this argument continued any further.

 

[Ryan Callan]

I'm sorry for being absent, but what should be a happy time for me (today I gained all the qualifications needed to go to university) is tainted by the fact I have to return to so much mess.

I have NOT looked at any replays (I have only seen chat), but frankly, I am disappointed that grown men cannot organise themselves. 90% of it is done for you. Mini Friday nearly always runs without an admin and hardly any issues at all arise - to be honest, you should be ashamed of yourselves for allowing this to happen and get out of control.

On the issue of donations - no, the fact you have donated does not give more weight to your opinion, BUT, frankly, the donation to racer ratio in the rFactor Racing Club is horrendous - none of you seem to care that it takes money (and effort) to host these races for you. Not enough respect for your privilege is shown, which ends up in this sort of situation.

I understand both sides of the argument (I am a racer after all) so I am not biased. This will be looked into as deeply as possible. Server replays and chat will be taken into account. This is a huge amount of work, but your squabbling about a mediocre club race, tryong to assert your authority over others, designates it necessary, and hugely damages the community as a whole. Nice work.

Thread closed until further investigation is made. Which might be a couple of days, because I do have a life to lead as well, amazingly enough.

 

[Ryan Callan]

OK - the inquest.

The restarts:

The first restart was entirely justified and a good call from the guys involved - I would have done the same, it was almighty pile-up.

The second restart was not justified at all - it's hard on Lee but only really two cars involved, that is just the luck of the draw. Adam should not have motioned to restart - just because one restart had taken place does not mean restarts should continue. Starts are the most dangerous parts of the race and part of the hazard of racing. This restart should not have happened.

The rolling start of the second restart: James made it clear in chat that to go when drivers got to the banking. He chatted 'GO', this was probably a good call and he himself did not profit from it - so the talk of favouritism and a power battle is nonsense.

The race result will not be cancelled - yes the rolling start was not exactly formation like but it is a 45 minute race - it is not that important. Several drivers still made an effort to have a fun race - to discount that effort in the face of some petulance would be wrong.

The chat:

Swearing in RD servers, whether an admin is present or not is completely unacceptable. Infraction points and/or warning s will be issued for this.

Personal dealings:

Toby: During the race 'proper' you were leading and then crash all by yourself - then you come on here complaining at 'idiots', swearing and cursing that the result should not count. This is grossly unsporting and frankly dishonest, despite being correct that the second restart should not have taken place.

Chris: You were not involved in this race - this was not your fight and there was no need to get involved as you knew nothing of the actual facts and situation.

James: You made yourself fairly clear in chat about the rolling start - I don't hold James responsible for any of the toubles in this race. I can only commend him for trying to take charge of the shambles created.

Mattia: You are correct that the second restart should not have taken place - however, there are better ways to post your complaints than the way you did.


As for night practice sessions, this is a good idea, this is not possible without changing the GDB of tracks, which causes mismatches and all kinds of other issues.

Also I commend those who kept their cool on the forum as well in-game, guys like Marcin (who has, in a way, more to complain about that anyone having been DC's in the second restart), Jakub, David, Nic et al.

Overall it seems to be an escalation of miscommunication, egos and petulance and one which I never wish to see at RD ever again.

This is the final word.