That's sufficient for slow devices indeed. If you need USB 3.0 isolation or stronger isolation then this is a good but expensive option:
https://intona.eu/en/products/
https://intona.eu/en/products/
Franks Rig Report
- Thread starter Frank Denneman
- Start date
Frank Denneman
Premium
During the last few weeks, I have been troubleshooting, fine-tuning, and driving the rig, and these moments gave me a lot of clarity about the future direction of the rig. A few months back, I spent a lot of time cleaning up the rig, doing a lot of cable management, and installing all components out of sight as much as possible. And this doesn't work much if you need to troubleshoot a lot. On top of that, I've expanded the rig with front traction loss to enhance yaw movement.
But the more I drove, the more I realized that I needed to dial down motion effects. Currently, the rig is equipped with motion and tactile feedback. 7DOF motion and two sets of Buttkicker LFE and TST329. Six exciters are waiting to be installed on the seat. Overall, the tactile feedback has provided me with a more fantastic feel of immersion than motion. It's more "frictionless" and more integrated with the driving experience. When I reduced the movement and disabled the horizontal movements, the motion platform made more sense to me again. Now the motion platform mimics the suspension of the car more or less. It feels like the frame is too small to cope with traction loss and heave or pitch simultaneously. I've made some recordings of the rig while driving, and when the rig is processing multiple inputs, it results in jerky movements, which breaks immersion. Moving back to vertical movement only smooths out platform movement.
The third element is the introduction of the Varjo Aero headset. I've owned the Valve Index and the HP Reverb G2, but this is in a league of its own. You can compare the FOV numbers all day long, but the clarity of the Aero is insane. So good, so brilliant, that I'm saying goodbye to the triple Samsung Odyssey G7 LC32G75T setup.
And last but certainly not least, I've been driving more F1 cars than GT lately, The seat helps with the immersion, but the overall experience can be better. Combining all these concerns, I've decided to break down the rig, start over, and design a new rig. Of course, I will incorporate some of the elements lying around. Photos are soon to follow.
But the more I drove, the more I realized that I needed to dial down motion effects. Currently, the rig is equipped with motion and tactile feedback. 7DOF motion and two sets of Buttkicker LFE and TST329. Six exciters are waiting to be installed on the seat. Overall, the tactile feedback has provided me with a more fantastic feel of immersion than motion. It's more "frictionless" and more integrated with the driving experience. When I reduced the movement and disabled the horizontal movements, the motion platform made more sense to me again. Now the motion platform mimics the suspension of the car more or less. It feels like the frame is too small to cope with traction loss and heave or pitch simultaneously. I've made some recordings of the rig while driving, and when the rig is processing multiple inputs, it results in jerky movements, which breaks immersion. Moving back to vertical movement only smooths out platform movement.
The third element is the introduction of the Varjo Aero headset. I've owned the Valve Index and the HP Reverb G2, but this is in a league of its own. You can compare the FOV numbers all day long, but the clarity of the Aero is insane. So good, so brilliant, that I'm saying goodbye to the triple Samsung Odyssey G7 LC32G75T setup.
And last but certainly not least, I've been driving more F1 cars than GT lately, The seat helps with the immersion, but the overall experience can be better. Combining all these concerns, I've decided to break down the rig, start over, and design a new rig. Of course, I will incorporate some of the elements lying around. Photos are soon to follow.
PolyGone
Premium
From your name I take it you're a fellow Dutchman. Gotta say this rig is something to asspire to. The attention to detail and cleanliness is inspiring. Looking forward to new pics!
That's a drastic measure. Don't you think you might regret getting rid of the triple setup when summer comes and temperatures rise?
Klingomucingo
Premium
don't do this, I am about to mimic your current setup, I don't want to start all over soon....
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Frank Denneman
Premium
Yep, fellow Dutchman. That is one of the brilliant things about the Varjo Aero. It got fans inside to cool your face while operating the device. Varjo supplies large automotive and aeronautic companies. They cannot have their developers and engineers have a break every 15 minutes. But you make a good point. Luckily I have an AC installed in my race room.
The immersion of the 1000R curvature of the Samsung is very sweet, you have elements passing by in your peripheral view, and it beats a single 49". But the main difference with VR is the eye-tracking movement, the ability to look into the corner. To look around you. To sit into Senna's MP4/4 and discover the chalk markings on the inner sides of the front tires.
I know there are eye tracking movement devices for monitors, but the reviews weren't really convincing. On top of that, the Triple 1000R mounted on the motion rig provides some challenges with climbing into the rig. Everything was mounted rock solid. There was no method of swinging one monitor away for easy entry. Plenty of people caught the sharp pointy end of the monitor. Not good for them, not good for the whole system, That's a problem that VR will solve. Let alone the horrible NVIDIA Surround configuration, which tends to get lost over time. The amount of time I lost reconfiguring the triples every time I start the computer is insane. I installed multiple versions of the NVIDIA driver, I switched from Windows 10 to Windows 11. Nothing helps solve that weird problem. Now back to a single monitor that is there for starting games.
@Klingomucingo LOL, and thanks, but look at it this way. Once I'm building the other one, yours becomes unique
The immersion of the 1000R curvature of the Samsung is very sweet, you have elements passing by in your peripheral view, and it beats a single 49". But the main difference with VR is the eye-tracking movement, the ability to look into the corner. To look around you. To sit into Senna's MP4/4 and discover the chalk markings on the inner sides of the front tires.
I know there are eye tracking movement devices for monitors, but the reviews weren't really convincing. On top of that, the Triple 1000R mounted on the motion rig provides some challenges with climbing into the rig. Everything was mounted rock solid. There was no method of swinging one monitor away for easy entry. Plenty of people caught the sharp pointy end of the monitor. Not good for them, not good for the whole system, That's a problem that VR will solve. Let alone the horrible NVIDIA Surround configuration, which tends to get lost over time. The amount of time I lost reconfiguring the triples every time I start the computer is insane. I installed multiple versions of the NVIDIA driver, I switched from Windows 10 to Windows 11. Nothing helps solve that weird problem. Now back to a single monitor that is there for starting games.
@Klingomucingo LOL, and thanks, but look at it this way. Once I'm building the other one, yours becomes unique
Great to see more users coming to VR. The drawbacks of VR are becoming so insignificant as the headsets improve that it's impossible not to admit it's the way to go for simracing. I have always been more annoyed by the lack of FOV than by the lack of resolution. Now, with my Pimax headset the FOV is no longer a problem. In some years most headsets will be smaller, with human FOV, better displays... so expect the best immersion you can imagine. It will be exciting to live that evolution.
Wow. I literally just got my final parts today to rebuild my rig following a lot of what you did for the monitors. I'm still in the process of adding motion and integrating my triple monitors. Your build and documentation are fantastic and I'm surprised to see you going to VR now. It seemed like you had your monitors situation really well sorted. Plus, your another force pushing me to tactile now. Well... I guess I'm looking forward to your new build.
Frank Denneman
Premium
New sim rig design mock-up.
The fundamental idea is the accessibility of the rig. Both for seating and equipment.
New concepts for me are the use of 8080 aluminum parts, internal anchors instead of corner brackets, and repositioning the seats in a "center" position in the frame instead of the end. The spine design lets me experiment with sliding equipment for better positioning. Stay tuned for more detailed shots and the progression of the build.
The fundamental idea is the accessibility of the rig. Both for seating and equipment.
New concepts for me are the use of 8080 aluminum parts, internal anchors instead of corner brackets, and repositioning the seats in a "center" position in the frame instead of the end. The spine design lets me experiment with sliding equipment for better positioning. Stay tuned for more detailed shots and the progression of the build.
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Frank Denneman
Premium
The first phase of the F1 sim rig built is complete. The spine of the rig is "taking" shape. The spine's function is to provide adjustability for the two subframes, the pedal deck and the wheelbase stand. They will move along the spine if these need to be adjusted.
The seat is mounted in a permanent position. The reason is two-fold, I want to keep the seat centered between the four vertical actuators, but more important many tactile users have reported that the sliding rails absorb a lot of details. I want to get the best experience. On top of that, it aligns with the overall direction of reducing the number of components within the rig.
The 200 cm 8080 beam as the center structure is a step away from the typical rectangular design. Instead of having every component tucked away, they are all now exposed and easily accessible. As we all know, sim racing is 80% troubleshooting. Proper cable management is a must, though.
Tactile components are installed underneath the seat and the pedal deck. The RaceBass isolators will rest on the brackets attached to the short arms. These will isolate the steel plate that contains the seat and a Buttkicker LFE and ClarkSynthesis TST329. The steel plate will be finished for aesthetic and safety reasons.
My previous rig was a layer cake of aluminum profiles. It contained multiple layers for the horizontal movement, one layer for the vertical movement, and then the massive 40160 sim-lab P1X for the components. Getting on the rig, stepping in the box, and putting your legs through the next rectangle to get to the pedals is something you get used to, but it should be easier. The spine design allows the driver to walk up to the seat without hindrance. The seat is kept as low as possible, and the wheelbase stand far away. I expect to step over the seat before sliding in.
The motion platform puts a lot of stress on the platform. Extra attention is paid to the "arms" of the rig that connect the actuators to the spine to deal with the forces they generate. Each arm connects to the spine with four 90-degree anchor pins.
The anchor pin was a new connector type I was dying to try out, and they sure didn't disappoint. The anchor pins provide an incredibly rigid and tight connection between the two components. On top of that, it provides a clean look and removes those pesky covers that keep falling off. (Yes, I know you can glue them on, I did that as well, but the small pins easily break off and force you to either replace the whole connector or muck around with a limp cover. ) The 8080 allows for four connections. But to build in a bit more safety, an additional 8040 profile is placed underneath the arms and the spine and spans across the entire length of both arms.
The 8040 connects to the spine using angle brackets, and I screw-tapped the ends of the arm.
The pt-actuator brackets help to create a bond between the arms, the 8040 profile, and the spine.
The seat subframe and wheelstand base are next. Stay tuned
The seat is mounted in a permanent position. The reason is two-fold, I want to keep the seat centered between the four vertical actuators, but more important many tactile users have reported that the sliding rails absorb a lot of details. I want to get the best experience. On top of that, it aligns with the overall direction of reducing the number of components within the rig.
The 200 cm 8080 beam as the center structure is a step away from the typical rectangular design. Instead of having every component tucked away, they are all now exposed and easily accessible. As we all know, sim racing is 80% troubleshooting.
Proper cable management is a must, though.Tactile components are installed underneath the seat and the pedal deck. The RaceBass isolators will rest on the brackets attached to the short arms. These will isolate the steel plate that contains the seat and a Buttkicker LFE and ClarkSynthesis TST329. The steel plate will be finished for aesthetic and safety reasons.
My previous rig was a layer cake of aluminum profiles. It contained multiple layers for the horizontal movement, one layer for the vertical movement, and then the massive 40160 sim-lab P1X for the components. Getting on the rig, stepping in the box, and putting your legs through the next rectangle to get to the pedals is something you get used to, but it should be easier. The spine design allows the driver to walk up to the seat without hindrance. The seat is kept as low as possible, and the wheelbase stand far away. I expect to step over the seat before sliding in.
The motion platform puts a lot of stress on the platform. Extra attention is paid to the "arms" of the rig that connect the actuators to the spine to deal with the forces they generate. Each arm connects to the spine with four 90-degree anchor pins.
The anchor pin was a new connector type I was dying to try out, and they sure didn't disappoint. The anchor pins provide an incredibly rigid and tight connection between the two components. On top of that, it provides a clean look and removes those pesky covers that keep falling off. (Yes, I know you can glue them on, I did that as well, but the small pins easily break off and force you to either replace the whole connector or muck around with a limp cover. ) The 8080 allows for four connections. But to build in a bit more safety, an additional 8040 profile is placed underneath the arms and the spine and spans across the entire length of both arms.
The 8040 connects to the spine using angle brackets, and I screw-tapped the ends of the arm.
The pt-actuator brackets help to create a bond between the arms, the 8040 profile, and the spine.
The seat subframe and wheelstand base are next. Stay tuned
Frank Denneman
Premium
yeah
Frank Denneman
Premium
I'm completely building this thing on the fly, constantly thinking about how to use parts. Building test frames, seeing if it works if it's strong enough, and if it looks the part . I have the luxury of having enough room to work in and a surplus of materials. Testing and building mock-ups is a part of the journey that I love. You see this thing organically grow. You start off with a raw idea, but most of the time, due to trial and error, you discover something that works better and is more satisfying to use and look at along the way. I totally get your approach though.
. I have the luxury of having enough room to work in and a surplus of materials. Testing and building mock-ups is a part of the journey that I love. You see this thing organically grow. You start off with a raw idea, but most of the time, due to trial and error, you discover something that works better and is more satisfying to use and look at along the way. I totally get your approach though.
Frank Denneman
Premium
The actuators are installed, but I have other plans for cable management. Hence the tie wraps still sticking out. The seat subframe is completed. The seat is mounted on a 6mm steel plate, which also serves as a mounting point for the Buttkicker LFE and a ClarkSynthesis TST329.
The previous rig used the RaceBass plate, but the dimension of that plate is way oversized for the narrow seat. With the brackets installed, the seat footprint measures 37 cm x 37 cm, while the RaceBass plate is 49 x 53 cm. On top of that, it wouldn't allow me to install tactile devices centered beneath the seat.
The 6 mm steel plate dimension is 40 x 40 cm, giving me just enough space to install the tactile devices, and it avoids hazardous situations of sharp edges near the ankles. In retrospect, the 6 mm plate is quite heavy. Not extremely heavy, but I just received the 8 mm aluminum plate that will act as a heel plate, which made me think that the seat plate could have been made of 8 mm aluminum. One of the goals is to keep the weight of the rig down. Reducing the seat plate was already a proper step forward. It would have been a bit better if I had made it from aluminum. A well, something to remember for the next one.
The Racebass Isolators isolate the tactile devices. I used them in the previous rig, and they do an excellent job keeping the vibrations where they need to be. By default, they come in red. As I'm installing black and yellow seatbelts, I thought it would be nice to paint them yellow (RAL1018 zinc yellow). The combination of a light brake pedal pressure (38 kg) (I save leg presses for the gym) and the compression of 63mm of the isolators result in a no-flex setup.
The tactile setup is complete once the 8 daex32ep-4 exciters are installed. Two exciters will find a place underneath the seat, two will be placed on the side of the chair, and four will be mounted on the back of the chair.
The wheelbase mount and the pedal deck subframe are up next.
The previous rig used the RaceBass plate, but the dimension of that plate is way oversized for the narrow seat. With the brackets installed, the seat footprint measures 37 cm x 37 cm, while the RaceBass plate is 49 x 53 cm. On top of that, it wouldn't allow me to install tactile devices centered beneath the seat.
The 6 mm steel plate dimension is 40 x 40 cm, giving me just enough space to install the tactile devices, and it avoids hazardous situations of sharp edges near the ankles. In retrospect, the 6 mm plate is quite heavy. Not extremely heavy, but I just received the 8 mm aluminum plate that will act as a heel plate, which made me think that the seat plate could have been made of 8 mm aluminum. One of the goals is to keep the weight of the rig down. Reducing the seat plate was already a proper step forward. It would have been a bit better if I had made it from aluminum. A well, something to remember for the next one.
The Racebass Isolators isolate the tactile devices. I used them in the previous rig, and they do an excellent job keeping the vibrations where they need to be. By default, they come in red. As I'm installing black and yellow seatbelts, I thought it would be nice to paint them yellow (RAL1018 zinc yellow). The combination of a light brake pedal pressure (38 kg) (I save leg presses for the gym) and the compression of 63mm of the isolators result in a no-flex setup.
The tactile setup is complete once the 8 daex32ep-4 exciters are installed. Two exciters will find a place underneath the seat, two will be placed on the side of the chair, and four will be mounted on the back of the chair.
The wheelbase mount and the pedal deck subframe are up next.
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Klingomucingo
Premium
Very interesting concept, I like the minimalistic (exotic) layout and easy accessability (we're not getting younger). I think you mentioned that you will disconnect the screens again, so only the column for the wheelbase and the pedal setup is missing, right? Can't wait to see the next steps....
What a fantastic build, I love the central spine idea for easy access. It’s so interesting to see someone follow their ideas from a completely clean slate.
Klingomucingo
Premium
From what I have seen, @Frank Denneman has developed a unique approach also for his steering column - can't wait to see more....
Frank Denneman
Premium
I already noticed that the steering base is a controversial choice, judging from the comments I got from some of my sim racing friends. I tested two designs: the traditional "bridge" and single-column designs.
I can reuse my SimCore UM1-ALN mount kit with the traditional bridge design. The uprights of the steering base directly connect to the PT-actuator mounts for a sturdy connection.
However, when guests were driving in my previous rig, I noticed many bumping their knees while getting in and out. I wanted to avoid putting my feet and legs through boxes and rectangles, so going for the bridge design forgoes that aspiration.
Many popular rigs have multiple screens as their output medium; thus, the bridge is helpful for button-box placements. However, this is a VR-only rig, and although I always stop scrolling when I see those completely decked-out rigs with copious amounts of buttons and displays, this rig will only be equipped with a single Streamdeck XL.
So will this design be for everyone? Absolutely not! If I used screens, I would be tempted to go for a bridge design, but I went for a central column as this is a purpose-built VR-only rig. So what does it look like?
I used a 50 cm long 8080 aluminum profile that can be moved along the central spine. The column is connected to the central spine using two different methods, an internal connector, and 8040 corner brackets. The four internal connectors should be more than enough, but just to be sure, I installed two extra 8040 corner brackets to ensure the SimuCube stays in its place.
Two 4040 profiles allow the SimuCube to move up and down and slightly forward and backward. Once you find the right angle and position, there is no need for a foot of telescopic movement. A few centimeters typically suffice.
For the initial design, the motor base column is at a position that allows me to keep my arms at the proper angle while my knees are still ahead of the column. One can use the top of the calf muscle to softly hug the column to brace yourself.
A twelve-centimeter spacer is used to get the wheel in the right place. Usually, longer spacers can be a liability as drivers tend to use the wheel as a handle to lean on to get out of the rig. But this will not be the case because the rig has such an easy entry and exit. Additionally, guest drivers will get the service of getting the wheel handled to them once seated and will be removed before they exit. Simucube supports up to 20 centimeters spacer, this one is well within any technical range they expect to see diminished beyond that 20 cm.
Up next the active seat belt system
I can reuse my SimCore UM1-ALN mount kit with the traditional bridge design. The uprights of the steering base directly connect to the PT-actuator mounts for a sturdy connection.
However, when guests were driving in my previous rig, I noticed many bumping their knees while getting in and out. I wanted to avoid putting my feet and legs through boxes and rectangles, so going for the bridge design forgoes that aspiration.
Many popular rigs have multiple screens as their output medium; thus, the bridge is helpful for button-box placements. However, this is a VR-only rig, and although I always stop scrolling when I see those completely decked-out rigs with copious amounts of buttons and displays, this rig will only be equipped with a single Streamdeck XL.
So will this design be for everyone? Absolutely not! If I used screens, I would be tempted to go for a bridge design, but I went for a central column as this is a purpose-built VR-only rig. So what does it look like?
I used a 50 cm long 8080 aluminum profile that can be moved along the central spine. The column is connected to the central spine using two different methods, an internal connector, and 8040 corner brackets. The four internal connectors should be more than enough, but just to be sure, I installed two extra 8040 corner brackets to ensure the SimuCube stays in its place.
Two 4040 profiles allow the SimuCube to move up and down and slightly forward and backward. Once you find the right angle and position, there is no need for a foot of telescopic movement. A few centimeters typically suffice.
For the initial design, the motor base column is at a position that allows me to keep my arms at the proper angle while my knees are still ahead of the column. One can use the top of the calf muscle to softly hug the column to brace yourself.
A twelve-centimeter spacer is used to get the wheel in the right place. Usually, longer spacers can be a liability as drivers tend to use the wheel as a handle to lean on to get out of the rig. But this will not be the case because the rig has such an easy entry and exit. Additionally, guest drivers will get the service of getting the wheel handled to them once seated and will be removed before they exit. Simucube supports up to 20 centimeters spacer, this one is well within any technical range they expect to see diminished beyond that 20 cm.
Up next the active seat belt system
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