Franck Montagny Shocks Racing World with Failed Drug Test

Why taking cocaine when you can taste the adrenaline of driving finest race cars ?....Maybe it was just Marihuana and Montagny needed to cool down a bit ;)...
Seriously, as a sportsman you should not dope yourself..but guess what many comes to mind is the double-standard (moralwise) regarding drugs: Politicians, Celebrities, Managers (You don`t really wanna know how much drugs are consumed by FIA/FIFA officials probably, lets lay aside corruption issues alone) they all take that ****....there was a german conservative hardcore-politician (kinda watchdog always pretending to be of high moral integrity) who was caught on you tube sniffing, sitting in underwear with some hookers, just a few years ago....he submerged for a while - now he 's out again working on his political carreer as if nothing had happened....just one example.
 
Interesting discussion but some key arguments are missing. Whether it's drugs or alcohol, in a sport that many look to these individuals for inspiration, as heroes, and role-models, what kind of message is being sent?
Hopefully one that doesn't stigmatize drug users but instead focuses on healthy personal control and responsibility. Again we know that spreading overly negative stories about drugs doesn't prevent people and young kids from becoming drug addicts.

Perfect role models create unrealistic expectations and unachievable targets while normal role models create realistic and positive expectations and achievable and useful targets.
 
Hopefully one that doesn't stigmatize drug users but instead focuses on healthy personal control and responsibility. Again we know that spreading overly negative stories about drugs doesn't prevent people and young kids from becoming drug addicts.

Perfect role models create unrealistic expectations and unachievable targets while normal role models create realistic and positive expectations and achievable and useful targets.

Not certain what you meant by "Perfect role models create unrealistic expectations and unachievable targets while normal role models create realistic and positive expectations and achievable and useful targets". Noone on this earth today is perfect so there can't be a perfect role model and as far as unrealistic expectations and unachievable targets is a bit vague. Care to elaborate for it seems you're disagreeing solely to disagree.
 
If you want to create role models out of racing car drivers you need to understand how those rolemodels are made. They are and created by people who do that kind of thing for living (pr and brand management). Using leading sporting figures as role models is hugely dangerous because it is completely on/off polarized culture of winning or failing. There is no grey area in between those two areas where the lives of normal people happen. This means that kids either see guys who win everything and are perfect (senna) or failures (montagny).

Fact is that kind of approach does not prevent the bad things from happening. All it does it stigmatizes those people who end up doing drugs (once, many times or becoming drug addicts). It teaches the lesson that you should hide your problems because look at these perfect people. They have no problems. You talk about societal norms that should be enforced with heavy handed policies while you do not clearly understand that such heavy handed policies do not make the society better. The whole thing about drugs has been so gravely mismanaged during the last 60 years that all those societal norms you speak about are based on false information, huge exaggerations and only cause more harm than good.

Montagny lost his career, takes big financial hit, his team and sponsors get pulled into this. Where is the good things that happen here? There aren't any. This kind of drug policy only creates suffering. We know, we know from scientific evidence that you can't fight drugs with this kind of policy. We need drug policy in sports that is based on facts and common sense. Not based on scary childrens stories just because someone still thinks children believe these things. They don't.
 
If you want to create role models out of racing car drivers you need to understand how those rolemodels are made. They are and created by people who do that kind of thing for living (pr and brand management). Using leading sporting figures as role models is hugely dangerous because it is completely on/off polarized culture of winning or failing. There is no grey area in between those two areas where the lives of normal people happen. This means that kids either see guys who win everything and are perfect (senna) or failures (montagny).

Fact is that kind of approach does not prevent the bad things from happening. All it does it stigmatizes those people who end up doing drugs (once, many times or becoming drug addicts). It teaches the lesson that you should hide your problems because look at these perfect people. They have no problems. You talk about societal norms that should be enforced with heavy handed policies while you do not clearly understand that such heavy handed policies do not make the society better. The whole thing about drugs has been so gravely mismanaged during the last 60 years that all those societal norms you speak about are based on false information, huge exaggerations and only cause more harm than good.

Montagny lost his career, takes big financial hit, his team and sponsors get pulled into this. Where is the good things that happen here? There aren't any. This kind of drug policy only creates suffering. We know, we know from scientific evidence that you can't fight drugs with this kind of policy. We need drug policy in sports that is based on facts and common sense. Not based on scary childrens stories just because someone still thinks children believe these things. They don't.

I get what you're saying but it's not about the drug policy itself or creating role models out of celebrities, race car drivers, etc. It's not even about the individual. It's about the organization's reputation. The acts of an individual, whether on company time or personal time, reflect on the company. We know it's Business 101 that nothing is more important than an organization's reputation as a damaged reputation leads to a failed business.

In example, let's say you have to undergo a major surgery and it's a life or death kind of surgery in that if everything doesn't go perfect, you're dead. Now, imagine the surgeon operating on you does cocaine or some other drug in which the frequency of use you are unaware of. Would you feel comfortable, knowing your life relies on the surgeon's judgment, allowing him to operate on you he being a cocaine user, occasional or otherwise, not knowing when the last time he used? I doubt you would. It's why companies have a drug and background test prior to hire policy.

If that surgeon performs the surgery, and is in any way impaired and you die,your family would sue the hospital, the surgeon would lose his job and likely his credentials, and the reputation of the hospital tarnished not considering the amount of money they're going to have to payout in a wrongful death lawsuit.

I agree you can't prevent bad things from happening always but to allow someone to operate heavy machinery or operate a vehicle that can easily endanger or take their own life or the lives of others knowing they have been or are under the influence of a substance that would impair their judgment cries lawsuit. It's just not a risk most organizations are willing to take considering the costs to keep the organization afloat alone.

Fact is, whether it's a bank, large company, or motor sports each organization is going to protect their interests and reputation by implementing drug use, sexual harassment, and other behavioral policies because at the end of the day, they'll end up being blamed for not doing enough to prevent said bad thing(s). This is why the standard(s) exists; not so that those abiding by that standard become role models for some kid. That's not even a thought by these organizations when they create these policies.I'd bet it's the last thing on their mind.

I don't think seeing a sportsman as a role model is a bad thing no more than seeing a firefighter as one. At the end of the day they're human and most will admit they've made mistakes throughout their life if you were to ask them. I've never heard any celebrity or public figure say how perfect their life or career has been. Most will say how tough it was starting from the bottom, or how poor they were, or the things they had to endure to get to where they are today. We certainly see how they have more financial problems and other issues than we common folk do so I don't think the message being sent is hide your problems.

That's likely a pride or self-esteem issue for a person to think that's the message being passed. Someone who looks at a model on the cover of a magazine and is either envious or desirous to look like them likely has a self-esteem problem. I think what hasn't been clearly defined is the difference between seeing a person as a role model and idolization. Idolization happens more often than not but we fail, as a society, to differentiate between the two. Idolization generally entails the person or thing being idolized is the standard, whereas a role model is an example in abiding by some standard set.

Above all, there has to be rules, laws, etc of which science would agree. The degree to which those rules or laws are set based on some action or inaction can only be determined by those making the rule or law and we have the choice of abiding by it or not and suffering the consequences. We can't always choose the consequences but we can certainly choose our actions.
 
I get what you're saying but it's not about the drug policy itself or creating role models out of celebrities, race car drivers, etc. It's not even about the individual. It's about the organization's reputation. The acts of an individual, whether on company time or personal time, reflect on the company. We know it's Business 101 that nothing is more important than an organization's reputation as a damaged reputation leads to a failed business.

These heavy handed drug policies cause more problems than the drugs themselves.

In example, let's say you have to undergo a major surgery and it's a life or death kind of surgery in that if everything doesn't go perfect, you're dead. Now, imagine the surgeon operating on you does cocaine or some other drug in which the frequency of use you are unaware of. Would you feel comfortable, knowing your life relies on the surgeon's judgment, allowing him to operate on you he being a cocaine user, occasional or otherwise, not knowing when the last time he used? I doubt you would. It's why companies have a drug and background test prior to hire policy.

So you know when the surgeon last time was shitfaced drunk or whether he smoked a cigarette some hours before starting your surgery? What prescription drugs he is taking. Has he slept properly in the last night. You make it sound like taking cocaine even once has some huge long lasting effects that will totally ruin that person making him unable to do any job. Companies have drug tests because they have been lied to about them being so important and necessary. Drug testing is a business.

I agree you can't prevent bad things from happening always but to allow someone to operate heavy machinery or operate a vehicle that can easily endanger or take their own life or the lives of others knowing they have been or are under the influence of a substance that would impair their judgment cries lawsuit. It's just not a risk most organizations are willing to take considering the costs to keep the organization afloat alone.
For crying out loud being drunk in the last 3 days has bigger effect on your ability to do good work than one time cocaine use in the last week. You are talking about risks that are exaggarated to being million times what they are in reality. Unless you are under the effect of a drug there is no risk! Are you seriously saying that if someone has taken cocaine once for example in the last 3 months should be disqualified from lots of jobs because there are risks he suddenly becomes unable to see, hear, think or whatever?

There is a huge discrepatency between say alcoholists and drug users. If you fail a drug test you are escorted out. If you come to work shitfaced drunk you are told to go home if you are causing trouble. The whole drug issue is just completely messed up beyond any critical thinking.

Fact is, whether it's a bank, large company, or motor sports each organization is going to protect their interests and reputation by implementing drug use, sexual harassment, and other behavioral policies because at the end of the day, they'll end up being blamed for not doing enough to prevent said bad thing(s). This is why the standard(s) exists; not so that those abiding by that standard become role models for some kid. That's not even a thought by these organizations when they create these policies.I'd bet it's the last thing on their mind.
You are grouping things that have nothing to do together. Heavy handed drug policies have been shown to be useless and cause more harm. If you want to uphold bad standards that cause more harm than good then heavy handed drug policy is a safe bet.

That's likely a pride or self-esteem issue for a person to think that's the message being passed. Someone who looks at a model on the cover of a magazine and is either envious or desirous to look like them likely has a self-esteem problem. I think what hasn't been clearly defined is the difference between seeing a person as a role model and idolization. Idolization happens more often than not but we fail, as a society, to differentiate between the two. Idolization generally entails the person or thing being idolized is the standard, whereas a role model is an example in abiding by some standard set.
And that is what kids are. Unsure of themselves, unsure of their self esteem and self value. Polarized in their thinking and actions, easily impressable and seeing the world very much through small keyhole without having deeper understanding of life or its difficulties. Idolization is very effective and kids are prime target for it because. I'm not even going to mention santa claus or the other bearded fellow.

Above all, there has to be rules, laws, etc of which science would agree. The degree to which those rules or laws are set based on some action or inaction can only be determined by those making the rule or law and we have the choice of abiding by it or not and suffering the consequences. We can't always choose the consequences but we can certainly choose our actions.
Exactly.
 
These heavy handed drug policies cause more problems than the drugs themselves.



So you know when the surgeon last time was shitfaced drunk or whether he smoked a cigarette some hours before starting your surgery? What prescription drugs he is taking. Has he slept properly in the last night. You make it sound like taking cocaine even once has some huge long lasting effects that will totally ruin that person making him unable to do any job. Companies have drug tests because they have been lied to about them being so important and necessary. Drug testing is a business.


For crying out loud being drunk in the last 3 days has bigger effect on your ability to do good work than one time cocaine use in the last week. You are talking about risks that are exaggarated to being million times what they are in reality. Unless you are under the effect of a drug there is no risk! Are you seriously saying that if someone has taken cocaine once for example in the last 3 months should be disqualified from lots of jobs because there are risks he suddenly becomes unable to see, hear, think or whatever?

There is a huge discrepatency between say alcoholists and drug users. If you fail a drug test you are escorted out. If you come to work shitfaced drunk you are told to go home if you are causing trouble. The whole drug issue is just completely messed up beyond any critical thinking.


You are grouping things that have nothing to do together. Heavy handed drug policies have been shown to be useless and cause more harm. If you want to uphold bad standards that cause more harm than good then heavy handed drug policy is a safe bet.


And that is what kids are. Unsure of themselves, unsure of their self esteem and self value. Polarized in their thinking and actions, easily impressable and seeing the world very much through small keyhole without having deeper understanding of life or its difficulties. Idolization is very effective and kids are prime target for it because. I'm not even going to mention santa claus or the other bearded fellow.


Exactly.


If I understand you correctly, it seems your argument stems from the severity of punishment via the policy relative to the frequency of use. I haven't said anything about the acceptable frequency for someone to drink or smoke or use drugs. An organization for the most part could care less. Who cares is the insurance company. Their risks and costs are based on the insured's habits and like any other company they're going to pass that additional risk and cost onto you via your employer. This results in lost benefits, decreased pay, etc or whatever the organization determines to negate the negative effect to their bottom line.

Yeah, they could say, we'll increase the rates of users, drinkers, and smokers, but that's discriminatory and they would face lawsuits for that. Thus, we all suffer due to someone else's choices. I find it difficult to see how that's fair but that's another discussion.

We could compare apples and oranges with regard to drinking and using drugs at some frequency and say a policy is ineffective or exaggerated but there is a reality that trumps that statement: There are plenty of cases of individuals getting drunk and/or doing drugs for the first time or even on a rare occasion who have died and/or killed someone else will under the influence of those substances. So, to say the risks are exaggerated is a bit one-sided. You need to tell that to the family who lost someone due to someone else's one-time or infrequent use of a substance.The effectiveness of a policy depends on who you ask for which you'll always have different views and opinions regardless of how harsh or lenient it may seem. If you ask a direct or indirect victim of a violated policy they'll have a completely different opinion than someone never affected by it.

Ultimately, for every policy, rule,or law, deemed stupid, harsh, or otherwise, there was a person that came before that policy who did something to merit the need for such a policy. If no one was ever sexually harassed at work, there'd be no need for such a policy. If people didn't drink and drive, there'd be no need for a law or punishment surrounding this. The purpose of the policy is to protect, not single-out an individual. People tend to go about their lives thinking they can do whatever and the only person they are affecting is themselves which is far from the truth.

If policies, rules, laws etc and the consequences from violating them aren't the catalyst to changing an individual's behavior that is or can affect the lives of innocents, then we need to suggest an alternative that is effective.
 
There are plenty of cases of individuals getting drunk and/or doing drugs for the first time or even on a rare occasion who have died and/or killed someone else will under the influence of those substances. So, to say the risks are exaggerated is a bit one-sided. You need to tell that to the family who lost someone due to someone else's one-time or infrequent use of a substance.

Really?! Wow. No. There is not.

Ultimately, for every policy, rule,or law, deemed stupid, harsh, or otherwise, there was a person that came before that policy who did something to merit the need for such a policy.

You seem to take an overly idealistic view of how laws are passed. Most laws are based on pure hearsay and outright lies or hatred. 50 years ago being gay was illegal. Do you really think there ever was an example of some individual who caused that law to be accepted? No. Laws are passed in some cases purely based on prejudices. Not facts. Heavy handed drug policy is one of the clearest examples of such law.
 

What do you think about subscription models in simracing?

  • It's fine

  • It's fine for hardware

  • It's fine for software

  • I don't like it

  • I don't like it for hardware

  • I don't like it for software

  • Other, please comment


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