FOV with something new.

[David Cordell]

I just noticed something that I don't recall being mentioned in all the other threads around the simosphere about FOV(field of view).

For the longest time I played with a FOV much higher than my calculated correct FOV because at first I didn't know any better and then once I learned the basics, I wouldn't lower it much because it was too hard to get used to. Once I finally forced myself to start lowering it, I found it to be true what all the FOV nerds would say about it being easier to hit braking points and how it hinders peripheral vision with the single monitor.

My correct FOV for my monitor and eye point relationship is 31degrees. Up until a few weeks ago I have been running around 44-48deg which was much better than the 65-70degs I ran for a long time before that and my lap times and consistency got much better the lower I took the FOV and closer to correct.

In the last couple weeks I decided to force myself to slowly and incrementally take the FOV to 31deg. When I finally got to 31 I noticed 3 things....

1. Peripheral vision got horrible so I turned on all 3 virtual mirrors and that cured that issue.
2. My lap times continued to fall due to being able brake even later with much more control.
3. The rotational rate of the car(world), in sharper corners, for the first time looks right.

Number 3 is the new and fantastic revelation of using my calculated correct FOV. With higher FOV's and in sharp corners, the car(world) always looked like it was rotating too slowly and It tricked my brain into thinking the rear was sliding even though it wasn't and it made it difficult to catch a slide when the rear was really sliding because of this overly slow rotation due to the pinched view of the world.

It's like a whole new world in sim racing now. I am able to get through the esses at Mid Ohio and the hairpin at Sebring with ease and without the sense of the car over steering when it's not. I am not sure what the scientific term for this phenomenon is but I would like to know.

For the record, I am not an FOV nazi that thinks everyone should use their calculated correct FOV. I have never heard anyone mention this aspect of it before and just wanted to let others know.

 

[Paul Bennett]

This explains all you need to know about FOV

 

[ouvert]

well you see dash with pheripheral .. but also you are able to focus outside of car without being constatly focused on dashboard too .. which causes more obstruction than in real car (why do you think Bruno Spengler preffers bonet view? cause he wants to cheat? nah cause cockip view is nothing like real cockpit view ) ... so in that way it this more realistic to push seat fwd and see just top of dash or just dash and window strut ...
As was said .. single screen is about compromises ..

 

[JeffL]

Thanks@Andy Jackson, the whole point of fov is because your brain has been seeing and driving at a certain, unchanged depth perception your whole life and your reaction times and subconscious are used to it, if your eyes would suddenly take on a different fov in real life you would probably throw up but eventually you would get used to it, at 53 years old I don't want to do that. So I personally try to get as close as possible to correct proportions as it seems to make it more sense to my addled brain.

 

[Andy_J]

so in that way it this more realistic to push seat fwd and see just top of dash or just dash and window strut ...
As was said .. single screen is about compromises ..

Yes I agree. Hence all those with triple screens are at a massive advantage. Their vision is just better. Hence why I always shout for allowing some of us crappy casual racers to allow low aids in order to compete on a level playing field. If they can have an advantage in the view area, why can't we have a little help in the driving area?

 

[ouvert]

Yes I agree. Hence all those with triple screens are at a massive advantage. Their vision is just better. Hence why I always shout for allowing some of us crappy casual racers to allow low aids in order to compete on a level playing field. If they can have an advantage in the view area, why can't we have a little help in the driving area?

well I have DFGT and spring based brake pedal .. could all guys with better gear use 30kg balast pls tripples are much better and will give you better sense of speed (very easy to adapt on single screen to it) and more awardeness (never had issues with not knowing what is going on around me or causing incidents) .. yes it is easier to see somebody right next to you but if you are keeping atention you know what is happeing .. still nothing what will makes you faster ..

 

[Andy_J]

well I have DFGT and spring based brake pedal .. could all guys with better gear use 30kg balast pls

Yeah sure. Why not.
Seriously I was in race online the other day and those guys must not have brake pedals at all. They tended to use me as their brake.

 

[ouvert]

Yeah sure. Why not.
Seriously I was in race online the other day and those guys must not have brake pedals at all. They tended to use me as their brake.

I think that problem is not in gear .. people sometimes don`t realize that braking points are not the same if there are cars right in a front of you ...

 

[Tomas Torasen]

No, this thread is not about immersion, it is about FOV not what makes you feel better.. Gees Thomas, That is why the OP of this thread got so frustrated.
Runaway with hair on fire.
It's about FOV,FOV,FOV,FOV.fov, fov. fov.fov, fov,...............

Well I agree with you on fov, you should use the correct fov yes. But if you are using a small monitor it will mess things up for you. And you can forget talking about realism. There is no realism simulating correct fov in a small screen and calling it close to reality because reality is nothing like that. You are too focused om correct fov and missing how things work in reality. I think if you just open your mind to it you can easily see how big the difference in perception is between a small monitor and the whole of visual perception in (not virtual) reality.

So yes, you are correct about perspective and fov, yes.. I'm saying it over and over again. But if you are using a small computer screen (I use a 55 inch and it is way too small still to compare to my eyes peripheral capacity) you will not persue "reality-like/close to reality" by using the correct fov, you will limit your view incredibly to what is actual in reality. Correct fov by your calculation yes - closer to realism on a small monitor, no.

 

[JeffL]

still nothing what will makes you faster ..

Overall I tend to agree, but peoples minds work differently, when I finally decided to really dial in fov, I was more consistent and maybe a little faster. Some guys are just fast, (drinking a coke, eating a sandwich and still kicking my ass) and some guys are just slow.

 

[JeffL]

So yes, you are correct about perspective and fov, yes.. I'm saying it over and over again. But if you are using a small computer screen (I use a 55 inch and it is way too small still to compare to my eyes peripheral capacity) you will not persue "reality-like/close to reality" by using the correct fov, you will limit your view incredibly to what is actual in reality. Correct fov by your calculation yes - closer to realism on a small monitor, no.

Everybody knows that, If you read through this thread, we spent most of it just trying to make people understand FOV and its actual existence.. If I had a 12" screen I probably wouldn't use the correct fov. We know, we know. we know

 

[ouvert]

Overall I tend to agree, but peoples minds work differently, when I finally decided to really dial in fov, I was more consistent and maybe a little faster. Some guys are just fast, (drinking a coke, eating a sandwich and still kicking my ass) and some guys are just slow.

correct fov will make you faster, just being able to judge braking and distances right is big help .. I ment with tripple screen your speed is not gonna magicaly improve .. better immersion, better awardness but that is it, could help with some tight corners if you are not using look to apex, but that goes away after few laps when you get used to that corner .. you are basically using the same FOV on middle screen, just adding two screens on the side (and of course overall FOV is adapted to those screens) ...

 

[Hash_V8]

"Correct fov by your calculation yes - closer to realism on a small monitor, no."

Not sure following you,correct FOV simply means the monitor that you are gaming on and distance you viewing it at, acts just like a window into game world,every thing will be in proportion,instead of being distorted and out of scale(unrealistic to brain), even if using a small monitor, giving you a narrow view, its still a more realistic 1:1 view than incorrect FOV,(just use look left right,or ir head tracker) everything will be in proportion, saying no sim or setup is 100 per cent realistic doesnt change proper fov calculations being the correct way to view a drive sim.

Also In AC I think seat position is unlimited so can adjust to exact same postion with a correct calculated FOV as your prefered incorrect FOV,in isi based games you may have to increase seat movement range in INI,so you all can have correct FOV AND still be in fave position.

 

[Tomas Torasen]

"Correct fov by your calculation yes - closer to realism on a small monitor, no."

Not sure following you,correct FOV simply means the monitor that you are gaming on and distance you viewing it at, acts just like a window into game world,every thing will be in proportion,instead of being distorted and out of scale(unrealistic to brain), even if using a small monitor, giving you a narrow view, its still a more realistic 1:1 view than incorrect FOV,(just use look left right,or ir head tracker) everything will be in proportion, saying no sim or setup is 100 per cent realistic doesnt change proper fov calculations being the correct way to view a drive sim.

Also In AC I think seat position is unlimited so can adjust to exact same postion with a correct calculated FOV as your prefered incorrect FOV,in isi based games you may have to increase seat movement range in INI,so you all can have correct FOV AND still be in fave position.

I dont understand how you can still beat the same drum. I said several times that there is a natural correct fov, yes. But it's not realistic. It will in certain ways be much more realistic to not use that fov, due to a hypothetical distance and small monitor size.
What you are saying is that putting a window inside your windshield the same size as your monitor while blocking the rest of the view is something natural and realistic, it's not. It's illegal in real life both on track and on public roads.
Does an incorrect fov present a distorted view, yes.. but it helps adding what the unrealistic monitor size limits.
You are just changing one preference for another, not getting any closer to realism. Stating that your way of doing it is "correct" is just missing the big picture.

 

[JeffL]

I said several times that there is a natural correct fov, yes. But it's not realistic.

Sorry, but that is a contradiction in terms.

 

[Tomas Torasen]

Sorry, but that is a contradiction in terms.

Did you even read my posts? The reason it is not is that fov is not 100% of perception of reality, which would be simulation av realism.
It's amazing how some people get stuck in their narrow minded thinking.

 

[JeffL]

Does an incorrect fov present a distorted view, yes.. but it helps adding what the unrealistic monitor size limits.

Did you even read my posts? The reason it is not is that fov is not 100% of perception of reality, which would be simulation av realism.
It's amazing how some people get stuck in their narrow minded thinking.

Yes I did read your post and that's great that you have found away to be comfortable in a non correct fov view. You are trying to include your surroundings and your limited fov into the discussion and your missing the point. We are talking about seeing turning and braking in the sim, please reread the original post, the same post which led to science deniers, and rationalizers and people talking about getting a arrested for having a monitor on their dashboard.

 

[Tomas Torasen]

Sorry, but that is a contradiction in terms.

I dont need to re-read the original post. This is what I answered to last. It is not a contradiction in terms of realism, because in terms of simulating reality there is not only fov to regard, but alot of different things. This is what you constantly keep ignoring. There were alot of statements concerning this correct fov is the only realistic view-like statements after the original post in the thread, this is what I aim to explain why it is incorrect.

Use whatever you want but dont say that your way is the only realistic one cause it's so simplified that it reaches beyond trying to reach realism.

 

[JeffL]

your way is the only realistic

I never said "MY" way is anything, were are talking about the science of proportion and depth perception put into sims for a reason. I didn't build the sim (sigh)

correct fov is the only realistic view

This is correct.

 

[JeffL]

@David Cordell, c'mon jump back in anytime your rested, I'm getting tired.

 

[Tomas Torasen]

I never said "MY" way is anything, were are talking about the science of proportion and depth perception put into sims for a reason. I didn't build the sim (sigh)

This is correct.

Ok I give up. Last time I explain it. If you have a tiny monitor and use a correct fov for it, it will be an incredibly unrealistic driving view at the same time as the fov is realistic. The overall experience will be close to impossible to use, very unrealistic in other terms than fov. When talking about realism there is not only fov to take into account.

If you still do not understand I will let you go on.