AC Formula Thursday-F4 at Donnington on September 26th. Fixed set up.

gearwhine · 2024-09-18T07:39:35+0100

Default settings are excellent. Getting the last % out of the car is going to be skill only

Kek700 · 2024-09-18T12:11:11+0100

Without meaning to bleat on, i do get annoyed by some things and tend to go into exaggeration mode.

But as an example the latest F3 are just undrivable for me, I have messed with Setup to try and reset that fact, but failed miserably.
When you are heading for 80 years of age you are considerably handicapped, I really need as setup to create a car I can drive, and have often proved to be more competitive than I have a right to be.
I agree with Joseph, but that only applies to able-bodied adults. I get all my track survivabilities from setup, luckily the F4 is reasonable with the standard setup, so this car is okay, but I still give up pace in this car with no setup.
I have never suggested a setup makes a car faster, I say it makes it more controllable, allowing me a more level playing field, and allowing me to explore a performance envelope that with a standard setup I could not achieve.

cerebralvortex · 2024-09-18T12:22:53+0100

I certainly understand Ernie's point of view here.

I suppose it's not possible to make an exception for Ernie on the server to allow for a custom setup for him and have fixed setups for everyone else ?

Kek700 · 2024-09-18T14:31:43+0100

That is a great idea Laurent, and Thankyou for the thought.
I would not want an advantage.
i prefer to just bleat on, swear away with umpteenth F*ck’s , just as I do in every day life when I constantly drop tools when doing something mechanical, putting my socks on in the morning, pretending I am thinking about something when I stand up from my visit to the coffee shop, just to stabilise myself before attempting to walk out with some sort of composure, instead of waddling off and trying not to fall.

It is a comedy act you will all have to face at some point.

gearwhine · 2024-09-18T16:08:54+0100

I'm closer to it than you know pal!

Shed 17 · 2024-09-18T16:50:49+0100

Me too Ernie, it catches up with you when you least expect it.......

Seriously though, I know the default is pretty good but if you do find a set up that is better than the stock that you think would suit all, then send it over to me and I can upload it as the 'default' set up.

I know set ups are very personal and what suits one might not suit another, but generally if Ernie is quick around a track then that set up would probably work for me as I approach another birthday!

Chris James · 2024-09-18T17:53:08+0100

Would anyone mind sharing a lap time, or what you think a competitive lap time should be? I'm using the setup that came with the car, can't get onto the server just yet. I was able to hit a 1:31:7 on my last session, and I don't know how competitive that PB is. Thanks.

gearwhine · 2024-09-18T18:12:08+0100

It's competitive Chris. Don't pay much attention to lap times. Some use race fuel and some use qualifying fuel. Some times are set hanging on for grim death and not consistent. On the day is what counts.

Shed 17 · 2024-09-18T18:44:54+0100

Chris James said:
Would anyone mind sharing a lap time, or what you think a competitive lap time should be? I'm using the setup that came with the car, can't get onto the server just yet. I was able to hit a 1:31:7 on my last session, and I don't know how competitive that PB is. Thanks.

Hi Chris,

Normally we don't discuss lap times here as we don't want to put people off entering but if you go to server 7 on the Emperor server and click on live lap times you can see who is doing what.
As Steve said though, don't worry about lap times at this stage, just focus on being consistent, the times will come.

Brillekas · 2024-09-19T19:08:14+0100

Could the password for the practise server be sent to me in PM? Thanks in advance!

Brillekas · 2024-09-19T19:18:02+0100

Captain Condescending said:
Just to weigh in on the setup issue quickly, I do see people's points about liking modifying setups for drivability, but in my experience, with a few exceptions, a *good* fixed setup closes the field up, rather than spreading it out. If there are weaknesses in a setup everyone has to deal with that equally. As far as slower drivers being able to compensate for their pace with a setup, I don't think I've ever seen that. Sure, if a car as a *bad* default setup, changing things can be important, but where the default is drivable, or the fixed setup is a decent custom one, less experienced drivers are not going to have any issues whatsoever.

Needing custom setups to be able to compete simply isn't true. If everyone else has a custom setup for a car which has an extremly bad default one and you don't, then sure, it's important, but at the end of the day I doubt we're ever going to drive a car with a fixed setup that's undrivable. If everyone is on a level playingfield with how the car drives, providing those characteristics aren't too extreme, it's by definition much fairer.

As someone often towards the front (but not as often as I'd like), I don't at all feel like I'm being put at a disadvantage by not being able to change things, again, providing the fixed setup is sensible. Through practice in the F3s I can often gain multiple seconds of lap time when I'm creating the setup, but firstly, the lap time doesn't come from the setup, and secondly, if there are gains to be made and nobody can make them then it doesn't matter!

My setups for the F3s are not significantly faster than default (depending on type of circuit and aero requirements ofc) for most drivers, I just find them more comfortable for my driving style when I'm pushing hard, and I share them for that exact reason. If it makes the car easier for some of the less experienced guys then mission acomplished, but it's not making anyone all that much faster. Taking that away would simply mean we'd all have the same limitations of that car. For example, the F3 on default setup I find can be quite understeer-y on entry to high speed corners. If we all had that limitation then our high-speed entry speeds would all simply be slower, we'd all have to adapt, and nobody would gain or lose.

There are always going to be drivers who struggle less with car control than others, but butchering a setup in order to suit a driving style that is causing a lot of mistakes or difficulties with a car is really counter-productive to improving over time. Setting the rear ARB to a super low setting because you spin a lot in a specific corner might make that spin less likely, but it's going to counteract any gains made through confidence with losses in laptime potential of the car. Again, assuming we are comparing to a drivable fixed setup, it's always better to learn to adapt to the car than the other way around. *Then* you might start editing setups to improve.

This is not me trying to tell you that you can't achieve faster laptimes through setup work as clearly that is false. It is more than it's the process of drive, analyse, adjust, improve that gives you those gains, and there's no reason why that can't be done on a fixed setup. You are removing a tool, but a tool for everyone. When I've done coaching and engineering for other drivers, the coaching part has always been a far bigger impact on their speed and consistency than the engineering. I would only ever suggest any setup changes after their approach is consistent anyway, so, beyond those major base track adaptations like wing levels and gear ratios, the setup isn't really where the laptime is gained until you're up in that 95th percentile. And when you're up there, it's more the setup allowing you to do something easier, rather than the setup actually giving you that pace. This isn't F1 where tiny suspension changes masssively affect aero efficiency and *actually* gain you grip - in sim things simply aren't that precise, so unless we're in exploit terratory like running max camber and silly things like that, you're not gaining grip, simply changing balance - something which we should be doing with our feet, not with MoTeC.

Rant over.

If it were me, I'd fix the setups to a custom one, but that is an enormous amount of work to put in. If the fixed setup is easy to drive, it also probably wouldn't really gain us much, especially as there aren't that many options to adjust with the F4. Fixed for this is perfect, in my opinion.

I largely agree with Joseph here, although i like fiddling with my setups, i am sure the laps you need to put in for that are far more beneficial in regards to pace than the actual adjustments. In fact very often when i try someone elses setups or switch back to my baseline setup after feeling i am a bit get lost in all the adjustments, i notice that i am usually not much slower or faster on those.