AC Formula Thursday-F4 at Donnington on September 26th. Fixed set up.

[Shed 17]

Welcome to the AC Racing Club.

With the recent release of another excellent car from the guys at Race Sim Studios, we are trying out the F4 car with a view to running it in a series in the near future.

This car is much easier to drive than open wheeler cars we have raced in recent years and we are also going to try out a fixed set up to try to encourage new drivers to join in the series. For both novice and experienced sim racers, this mod offers an unparalleled opportunity to experience the excitement and challenges of open-wheel racing.

The car has to be purchased but for the price of a posh coffee (or a couple of litres of fuel) you get a great car to add to your collection and the chance to race it at upcoming events.
Formula RSS 4 2024 for AC (racesimstudio.sellfy.store)

For this test race only the gears (Long or short), tyres (Slick/wet and pressures) and fuel loads are adjustable so you don't have to spend endless time testing.

The track is the Donnington 2018 GP layout.
Donington Park - RacingCircuits.info

SITUATIONAL AWARENESS is essential for clean and respectful driving in our community. You should therefore use tools like Helicorsa or CarRadar and CrewChief. The links for these apps are on the bottom of this post.

DISCORD. It's important that you also join us during the event on Discord for additional information and instructions. Link is below.

Sign up:
Go to Formula Thursday using the Emperor account you have been given and register with your steamID.
If you don't have an Emperor account yet, ask for one by posting in this thread (only for premium members).

Event details and Server information:

• Server: Overtake Server 7-
• Password: standard weekday password, if you don't know that, ask for it in this thread and it will be send in a PM.
• 20:00 CET, 19:00 BST 60 minutes - Official Practice
• 21:00 CET, 20:00 BST 10 minutes - Qualification
• 21:10 CET, 20.10 BST 25 minutes - Race 1
• 21:35 CET, 20.35 BST 25 minutes Race 2
• Practice server available during the week. Usual weekday password. if you don't know that, ask for it in this thread and it will be send in a PM.
• Car: Formula RSS 4 2024 for AC (racesimstudio.sellfy.store)
• Track: Donington Park | OverTake (Formerly RaceDepartment)
• Pit stop: not mandatory
• Tyre blankets: Yes
• Track Road temperature: 25 Celsius
• Track grip: 100%
• Track limits: No more than 2 wheels over the white/yellow line without a lift of the gas please. You will be penalized if you break this rule.
• Damage: 10%
• Fuel Consumption: 100%
• Tyre wear: 100%

Useful Links:

• Overtake Discord: click here
• Sync Accounts: click here
• Recommended apps: Helicorsa + CarRadar+ Top/Centre Flags or AC_Flags + CrewChief
• Tracks, Cars, Apps Installation Guide: click here (Handy guide to install non AC content)
• Racing Club Rules: click here
• Incident Reporting: click here

 

[Shed 17]

Free practice is running.

 

[cerebralvortex]

I did some laps. Feels pretty good to me!

 

[Kek700]

What is going on, fixed setup is not a good move, I use setups to make cars drivable.
What with the last F3 , when I finally get a car I am a least comfortable with you decide on foxed setup.
I USE setups to counter my rubbish driving.
I have not tried it with standard setup admittedly but I don’t want to drop out of another championship.

 

[Shed 17]

Try it Ernie, it’s an experiment at this early stage, with the idea to make it the same for everyone and bringing the racing down to drivers skills and not hours spent on set ups.
Numbers have been dropping in all series, I am trying to encourage new drivers and those from other series here on AC to try something different on a level playing field.
I have been around a few tracks with this car and it feels pretty good in default set up with my limited skills but if it needs some tweaks maybe you could provide a set up that we all could use?

 

[Kek700]

Yes I sort of understand, but first try the Abarth 500 in standard setup around Misty Loch.
You are chasing rainbows, as it was eloquently explained to me before on this forum.
There is no such thing as a level playing field.
I need setup to stand a chance in our racing. . No setup immediately puts at the back of the field.
That can easily been seen by my erratic racing results.
The only fair way would be BOP, but you cannot assign that to individuals. And that would make those with heavy BOP’s not want to race.
The only thing you can do is pick a car, judge its use ability across the whole driver spectrum and race that alone or with other cars. That really is the whole point of the F4 it closes the field up.
Delete the fixed setup. It is pointless.

 

[gearwhine]

Yes I sort of understand, but first try the Abarth 500 in standard setup around Misty Loch.
You are chasing rainbows, as it was eloquently explained to me before on this forum.
There is no such thing as a level playing field.
I need setup to stand a chance in our racing. . No setup immediately puts at the back of the field.
That can easily been seen by my erratic racing results.
The only fair way would be BOP, but you cannot assign that to individuals. And that would make those with heavy BOP’s not want to race.
The only thing you can do is pick a car, judge its use ability across the whole driver spectrum and race that alone or with other cars. That really is the whole point of the F4 it closes the field up.
Delete the fixed setup. It is pointless.

Ernie, the F4 does NOT need a setup. It drives bang on as it is. That is the point of using it. If you were a total first timer you would be glad of that fact. But you are not a first timer and no, you are not slow are you. If you're qualifying times are slow then I may as well give up because I am very often seconds off your time. It does not lock brakes or spin out unless stupid inputs make it so which we both know you do not do. With respect mate, just drive the effin thing!

 

[Kek700]

I did not mean to offend, I like setting cars up, I put 90% of my efforts into setting cars up and 10% into practice.

 

[gearwhine]

I did not mean to offend, I like setting cars up, I put 90% of my efforts into setting cars up and 10% into practice.

You didn't offend mate. I just think you are missing the point. We need fresh blood and it might just help that cause. You can do a setup, i can do a setup but a lot of new sim racers can't and feel intimidated. It's worth a try don't you think?

 

[Kek700]

As much as it pains me to admit it, you are right, just tested it at Silverstone, great drive with the standard setup.
i will still miss the setup procedure, but it is not a Abarth 500 with a standard setup.

i am still suffering with 2 years of computer setup down the pan in a microsecond. i have spent days and days trying to set everything up.
Next time I am going to get an external drive and back the lot up.

 

[Shed 17]

No offence taken Ernie. I suggest you try the car on the practice server, see what you think. For Steve and me it feels good (after the F3 and Agile it is a breeze to drive) and very raceable in default, in fact I found it hard to make it go off track!
I know you like and are very good at setups so there is nothing stopping us using a fixed set up from yourself if you agree. Give it a go with the mindset of , could a rookie race this and would the aliens also get some enjoyment of battling wheel to wheel?

 

[Shed 17]

As much as it pains me to admit it, you are right, just tested it at Silverstone, great drive with the standard setup.
i will still miss the setup procedure, but it is not a Abarth 500 with a standard setup.

i am still suffering with 2 years of computer setup down the pan in a microsecond. i have spent days and days trying to set everything up.
Next time I am going to get an external drive and back the lot up.

Been there with PC failure, I now back it all up on external drives and regular restore points as it takes weeks to get it back to how it was.

 

[KFMaster]

This F4 with fixed setup sound like great combo (sorry Ernie!) But I wish I could participate on Thu

 

[Medilloni]

You didn't offend mate. I just think you are missing the point. We need fresh blood and it might just help that cause. You can do a setup, i can do a setup but a lot of new sim racers can't and feel intimidated. It's worth a try don't you think?

Of course you need fresh blood, the same-ish combo's have run for nearly 2 yrs for goodness sake (a couple of exceptions aside).

Go back 30 pages and look and the fantastic variation there was - regular champs interspersed with fresh and interesting combo's, and thought behind race formats for both summer and winter, Chris Down, Craig Dunkley, for example, were masters at it.

Re setups, fixed setup is not a sim (this place was for sim racers, right?), one man's 'it's good as it is', is another's bag of shite. Edit: We used to help new sim racers, share setups, be with them on the server etc - you're not going to change the low numbers here trying to get 'shy' racers here (no offense to them )

Unpopular reply I know, but massive reduction in numbers have a reason - they went somewhere else, that this place used to be. Don't be offended by my meanderings, I really miss what used to be here.

 

[gearwhine]

Well, i think the guys are trying to make it more interesting and attract more interest.
It's the ability to use what is available that is the problem. Most of the modding for AC has moved away from here and can't be used if not published here.
The old game and mods are now stale including what was used a few years ago.
Up to date quality mods has to be worth a try or should we be rushing around trying to enter a race with the old Tatuus?

 

[Kek700]

I think it is the sign of the times, back in, I think , 2017 we had 30 or 50 drivers for the Mazda and gt3 class. That gave a real spread of abilities, meaning everyone had someone to race and the race had some real drama. Also on some occasions we had an commentator in some races.
We even had three Wrights in a race
So I am not sure we are ever going to see those numbers, so if you are up for it, soldier on and hope for the best. There is still a possibility of attracting 20+ drivers, but first we need to get over the holiday dip.
There will be another migration to Assetto corsa EVO soon to contend with, but that will fade and perhaps there will be a return to AC by more people.

 

[Shed 17]

Yes, I agree Ernie, those sorts of numbers are unlikely to be seen again and with so many other platforms available nowadays the numbers are spread very thinly. When I look at some of the other platforms the numbers aren't spectacular either so I think we do OK with our loyal regulars.
I don't know how others feel but when I do go and dip my toe into some of the other sites there seems to be very little community spirit, something that is one of the main attractors here in our communities plus the driving standards can be 'variable' to say the least!
As Steve said, the restrictions we have to currently operate under here on OT don't help and we have raised this with the management, hopefully they will look at different ways to attract numbers.
What I have been trying to do with the Thursday races (Radicals, Top Car, Mutliclass , TCR, Formula 3/4) is to provide more variety in order to attract more drivers including new people ,but so far I seem to be,as you say, "chasing rainbows"! But nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[Chris James]

I'd like to join this. I just bought the premium membership. I'm a little confused on what to do now. I ran this car around the track and really enjoyed it. How do I get the fixed setup to practice with?

 

[Shed 17]

Hi Chris,
You are very welcome to join us, I will send you a PM with all the details.

 

[Captain Condescending]

Just to weigh in on the setup issue quickly, I do see people's points about liking modifying setups for drivability, but in my experience, with a few exceptions, a *good* fixed setup closes the field up, rather than spreading it out. If there are weaknesses in a setup everyone has to deal with that equally. As far as slower drivers being able to compensate for their pace with a setup, I don't think I've ever seen that. Sure, if a car as a *bad* default setup, changing things can be important, but where the default is drivable, or the fixed setup is a decent custom one, less experienced drivers are not going to have any issues whatsoever.

Needing custom setups to be able to compete simply isn't true. If everyone else has a custom setup for a car which has an extremly bad default one and you don't, then sure, it's important, but at the end of the day I doubt we're ever going to drive a car with a fixed setup that's undrivable. If everyone is on a level playingfield with how the car drives, providing those characteristics aren't too extreme, it's by definition much fairer.

As someone often towards the front (but not as often as I'd like), I don't at all feel like I'm being put at a disadvantage by not being able to change things, again, providing the fixed setup is sensible. Through practice in the F3s I can often gain multiple seconds of lap time when I'm creating the setup, but firstly, the lap time doesn't come from the setup, and secondly, if there are gains to be made and nobody can make them then it doesn't matter!

My setups for the F3s are not significantly faster than default (depending on type of circuit and aero requirements ofc) for most drivers, I just find them more comfortable for my driving style when I'm pushing hard, and I share them for that exact reason. If it makes the car easier for some of the less experienced guys then mission acomplished, but it's not making anyone all that much faster. Taking that away would simply mean we'd all have the same limitations of that car. For example, the F3 on default setup I find can be quite understeer-y on entry to high speed corners. If we all had that limitation then our high-speed entry speeds would all simply be slower, we'd all have to adapt, and nobody would gain or lose.

There are always going to be drivers who struggle less with car control than others, but butchering a setup in order to suit a driving style that is causing a lot of mistakes or difficulties with a car is really counter-productive to improving over time. Setting the rear ARB to a super low setting because you spin a lot in a specific corner might make that spin less likely, but it's going to counteract any gains made through confidence with losses in laptime potential of the car. Again, assuming we are comparing to a drivable fixed setup, it's always better to learn to adapt to the car than the other way around. *Then* you might start editing setups to improve.

This is not me trying to tell you that you can't achieve faster laptimes through setup work as clearly that is false. It is more than it's the process of drive, analyse, adjust, improve that gives you those gains, and there's no reason why that can't be done on a fixed setup. You are removing a tool, but a tool for everyone. When I've done coaching and engineering for other drivers, the coaching part has always been a far bigger impact on their speed and consistency than the engineering. I would only ever suggest any setup changes after their approach is consistent anyway, so, beyond those major base track adaptations like wing levels and gear ratios, the setup isn't really where the laptime is gained until you're up in that 95th percentile. And when you're up there, it's more the setup allowing you to do something easier, rather than the setup actually giving you that pace. This isn't F1 where tiny suspension changes masssively affect aero efficiency and *actually* gain you grip - in sim things simply aren't that precise, so unless we're in exploit terratory like running max camber and silly things like that, you're not gaining grip, simply changing balance - something which we should be doing with our feet, not with MoTeC.

Rant over.

If it were me, I'd fix the setups to a custom one, but that is an enormous amount of work to put in. If the fixed setup is easy to drive, it also probably wouldn't really gain us much, especially as there aren't that many options to adjust with the F4. Fixed for this is perfect, in my opinion.