Formula One: First Step Made Towards New Engine Formula

[bsmooth]

If you still want to see REAL racing, watch the SCCA Runoffs. F1 just ain't what it used to be. You can't even exit a car quickly and safely for fear of getting electrocuted, just don't ground yourselves.
Yes the crowds want the real thrills of actually hearing an F1 engine, but what they have now just doesn't do the trick. NA engines and less downforce would be a boon to the crowds and the drivers as well, but it won't happen as we wish it would.
But If F1 doesn't do something the crowds will start to thin. Even the announcers try and make it sound exciting when truly nothing is going on, its a shame what F1 has become.

 

[ronald kasteel]

People who want the old, loud engines back are going to be forever disappointed. Natural aspiration is obsolete technology, it's never coming back to F1 now that turbocharging is finally back in the regulations. I wouldn't be surprised to see even NASCAR go down the turbocharging route within the next decade.

Not that it matters regardless. Formula One is about to choke on the halo when 2018 hits, and Formula E will become the new top dog. Unless of course Formula E makes that same halo error. If that happens, IndyCar wins.

Isn't it mandatory to all open wheelers to get the halo? I bet it wil if not its hypocrite AF!

 

[larre90]

Put a Kreiskolben in it, for the best f*cking sound! Screaming Angels for everyone!

But on topic...
As I heard about the new engines, I thought: Okay, a V6 Turbo and some kind of a push to pass? That sounds VERY similar to me... Wasn't Liberty american?... Yes?...

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I still don't get why we are where we are at.......

Why don't they make all engines open, bring whatever you like, only rule is no precious metals, 18000rpm max, the FIA then impose a fuel maximum for each session to control the power.....as you need the fuel to make power, this would breed innovation back into the sport and diversity something which is terribly lacking in F1 atm. They could start the ball rolling straight away with a max fuel load of 90kg for the race, which is already 15kg less than the current max iirc ?

 

[Isaac Chavira]

I say just give them 2000cc V-12's with no turbo and MGUK and a 20,000 rpm redline. But that is just a dream =o)

 

[robt100]

If a real life Renault failed as much as F1 Renaults do, nobody would buy it.

Must.........resist.....obvious.....comment....about....Renault....road..cars!

Better still,
V8,v10,v12
Turbo a choice
No engine managment systems.
DRS to stay.

So you want cars where you need enough brainpower to press a button to overtake (aka: DRS). And somehow will persuade manufacturers that Carburettors are road relevant for today?? Although admittedly it would be fun to see 'high tech' F1 teams try to deal with balancing a set of DCOEs



Personally I think its a step in the right direction, getting rid of the MGU-H means lower cost and more noise. The only other engine based regulation I would change is to re-enter refuelling, the lower cost of the engine would mean the 'cost' argument for refuelling is negated, it also means cars can race flat out all race creating a better spectacle, it also adds more strategy and can diversify engine/chassis designs. You can go for more power and wear meaning more stops, or more efficiency and low tyre wear for a slightly slower laptime but a faster race time due to less stops.
DRS needs to be removed, as its a gimmick that ruins the racing, no overtake is relevant or exciting when its been artificially created. Change aero rules so front and rear wings can only have 2 elements each to reduce the dirty air and simplify other areas, or regulate in some way the wake on the rear of the car for a cleaner flow.
Watched some older F1 races from 2003-2005 the other week, the way the cars look as they are pretty much always on a low fuel run, and the closeness they can race with really ups the viewing pleasure. Definately the direction to go in

 

[Ricoow]

More powerful MGUK with focus on manual driver deployment in race together with option to save up energy over several laps to give a driver controlled tactical element to racing

So basically they still cannot race but have to be 'tacticians'

 

[M-Bimmer]

I only care about seeing different drivers/teams winning races. Look at DTM as an example, you watch the whole season for a reason. It is not really over until the last races (usually)
F1 is another beast but still there gotta be something done to attract more fans and let the sport be more interesting. Why bother have 20 drivers when one or two win?
So If any of the key features might change that then why not...but this won’t happen i guess

 

[DND]

x minimum weight
x minimum ground clearance
x maximum width
no engine restriction
x fuel per race weekend
x number of tires per weekend (whatever compounds are available from manufacturer)
refuel optional
no mandatory tire pit stop
no DRS
Reduce rear and front wings to a max of two elements each with no sharkfin/TV antenna and no more than 2 winglets per side
scrap the halo
F@#$ Charlie Whitting (Vettel 2016)
Tell the stewards to stuff their investigating crap
bring back proper track limits
ban Tilke from ever looking at a track again, go design a parking lot
I digress my head hurts

 

[Richard Wilks]

You seem to forget that Group C, and your beloved CART used ground effects, with great success i might add. The FIA has been stubborn to let them comeback for reasons that boggle my mind quite honestly, as that would almost solve the dirty air argument overnight.

Another technology that is banned and makes no sense being that way today is active suspension. Part of Mosley's mad ambition of copying the early 90s CART, banning all electronic controls, together with introducing refueling, forgetting that F1 was years ahead of CART, and that the "different strategies" would never materialize because F1 teams know exactly what the optimum strategy always is, it all sent F1 to a downward spiral, form 1993 to 1996, when the EXACT SAME TEAM was dominating and making that year year with less overtakes on track of the whole F1 history EVER... and yet, he wasn't happy and next he went on reducing even more the mechanical grip with the grooves, making cars narrower, etc etc...

Active suspension and ground effects, besides being road relevant, would fix the overtaking problem instantly.


As for the engines, i always thought that Group C got it the best of all. Use any engine and combination you like, here is your fuel allocation for the race, go.

 

[paracletus]

Ross Brawn will not fail.

 

[kondor999]

1.6 V6 Turbo only? Why can't they just settle on a displacement or a fuel allotment per race? Then let the engineers do turbo, NA, V6, V8 or whatever.

Sure, eventually there will likely be only one "optimum" config (like what happened in the mid-90's, with everyone eventually going to a V10 for their 3L NA motors), but that'll take a few years and meanwhile we'll have a delightful variety of engines again.

F1 in the early 90's was exciting from an engineering standpoint because you had everything from V8's to W12's competing. They need to simultaneously open up the formula to different solutions, while radically simplifying the engines themselves to encourage experimentation.

Or: Just can the BS and go back to the glorious 3L V10's. F1 is about racing the most awesome cars on Earth, not saving the planet or fooling people into thinking these engines have anything to do with road cars.

 

[Andrew Harper]

You seem to forget that Group C, and your beloved CART used ground effects, with great success i might add. The FIA has been stubborn to let them comeback for reasons that boggle my mind quite honestly, as that would almost solve the dirty air argument overnight.

We might see it return one day but I think the concern is development. In other series it's a controlled by the spec chassis. I can see teams spending millions on aero development on the floors and the lap times will tumble to dangerous levels.

However on a positive note I'm looking forward to seeing how next years Indycar will go with the underbody downforce, the racing has always been good anyway but this may make things easier for the drivers to follow one another even more.

 

[Richard Wilks]

We might see it return one day but I think the concern is development. In other series it's a controlled by the spec chassis. I can see teams spending millions on aero development on the floors and the lap times will tumble to dangerous levels.

However on a positive note I'm looking forward to seeing how next years Indycar will go with the underbody downforce, the racing has always been good anyway but this may make things easier for the drivers to follow one another even more.

Make it a spec floor then. Problem solved. The floor was almost spec in CART in it's later years anyways. As it is now, the teams spend that amount of money in the wings anyways, with all the negative consequences we already know.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

1.6 Litre, V6 Turbo Hybrid

Seriously what is it with this fetish the FIA has for 1.6 liter engines for their premier racing series. F1 should have no similarity with what standard cars Europeans drive in real life. It's F1, the pinnacle of motorsport and only V8, V10, V12 or heck even V16's should be allowed.

Combine the epic engines with excessive fuel use (yeah!), excessive use of rubber, excessive budgets and excessive development time and you have a winning formula again.

With the whole green world embracing silly electric cars there will be TONS of fuel left to burn with F1. #burnit

 

[Andrew Harper]

We might see it return one day but I think the concern is development. In other series it's a controlled by the spec chassis. I can see teams spending millions on aero development on the floors and the lap times will tumble to dangerous levels.

However on a positive note I'm looking forward to seeing how next years Indycar will go with the underbody downforce, the racing has always been good anyway but this may make things easier for the drivers to follow one another even more.

An interesting point and I agree with you but F1 teams will just not agree on spec parts. They just hate them.

The only person brave (and stubborn) enough to force spec items was Max Mosley. Even he mostly gave up in the end (he wanted standard front and rear wings for exactly the reason you and others have mentioned).

Which is why I still watch IMSA/WEC and Indycar more! lol

 

[InsaneOzzie]

I was more leaning to the idea that to stop Red Bull dominance via the aero / chassis design they decided to make that side less important, hence Mr Newey slopes off to design yachts for a bit whilst they make engine power the most important, so its a very simple fact of the most power wins and we get an even more unfair playing field.
Not taking anything away from Merc, but frankly its a joke nearly as daft as the Brawn year but at least that was stopped.
You will never ever get it all fair in this sport, but over the last 4 seasons its been like class racing.
A resurgent Ferrari after 3 seasons of Merc dominance doesn't mean Ferrari was the car to be in, as soon as the Ferrari is the car to be in Lewis will be off there as quick as he can say "red is favorite colour".... again...

Ahh, sorry never was very good at reading between the lines, but I agree with you 100%

 

[InsaneOzzie]

Maybe the FIA could take a leaf out of the Aussie V8 series, the next gen cars will be V8,V6TT or even 4cylinder twin turbo, as long as the total weight comes in at 1350kg, you get x amount of fuel which must be used during the race, aero packages are the same for everyone and there all on the same tires/tyres.

Below is a video of the V6TT that RedBull Holden have developed for the next gen car, this is how good a V6 turbo can sound

 

[wombat999]

Aside from the dramatic loss of adhesion inherent to a ground effect platform, it forces engine design to fall within a restrictive pattern.
The outstanding TAG V6 might have been constructed by Porsche AG but it was designed to fit very tight specifications laid out by John Barnard, who supervised the procedure.
If one runs GE, even the 'restricted' variation, then one must have a power plant that fits within the tunnels, the core of the matter.
The FIA mandated flat bottom platform still allowed a certain form of GE, as the regulated area IIRC covered the length from front to rear axle points.
This carried through to the 3.5 NA cars and led to the idiotic and fugly raised nose with overdeveloped rear diffuser designs.
Engine packaging is all important, Moto Moderni were contracted to built a Flat 12 for Subaru in (I think) 1992 or 1993, despite their arguments against horizontally opposed layouts Subaru insisted as their trademark production engines were 'Flat'. Moto Moderni were at least relieved of the burden of air cooling.
Needless to say it was a disaster and sunk the little Coloni team who were initially delighted with their status as the 'Works Subaru Team'.
CART began running real 'Ground Effects' in 1979 when the John Barnard designed Chaparral 2K arrived, along with the 'Semi Ground Effects' Penske PC7.
March came to dominate a few years later, followed by Lola, after various domestic attempts other than Penske failed.
The real success of CART lay with the power plant design, Cosworth and Ilmor (as Chevrolet or Mercedes) being compact V8 Turbos, with the NA pushrod Buick Turbo almost the same size.
Both Honda and Toyota arrived later but with exactly the same pattern.
The final 'Champcar' series running Cosworth power in the superb Panoz chassis on a standardised tyre selection produced some the best 'Spec' racing I can recall.
I'll get orf me soapbox now.

 

[formidable]

You obviously haven't watched F1 from the pre downforce dominated era 80's-90's, where the drivers had to work hard to setup an opponent for an over take, it certainly wasn't easy and took a great deal of skill, this is why many of the drivers from that era are considered some of the greatest in F1 history.

Unlike today where all a driver needs to do is get within 1 second at the DRS zone and by the end of the straight your ahead, that's truly boring, and shows little of a drivers true racecraft.

If the FIA & Liberty Media were truly interested in making F1 popular again instead of bending to the powers of the factory teams, they would restrict the current aero packages that make it near on impossible to overtake due to the Vortices created by the multi winglets on the front wing, which were designed to deliberately generate masses of dirty air to make it impossible to overtake, or setup an overtake. It has taken millions of dollars and hundreds of hours of R&D by the factory teams to get to this point of dominance via the aero, plus Bernie's willingness to let Ferrari and Mercedes dictate the terms of F1's direction.....for a price of course.

I looked 80s F1 races (thanks to Youtube), but I didn't live that era. I'm from the mid-90s xD