AC Ford v Ferrari @ Fat Alfie's Feldbergring, Tue 18th June 2024

[thom462]

Race was good fun again, actually didn't plan to race but remembered how great this car can be, especially in VR, so I decided 40 minutes to qualy to start practicing. Had a great race with Colin, that was lots of fun. Lost my position after pit stop as I let Laurent pass and lost time to be sure we won't collide when I enter pits and I think I put too much fuel in. Never thought I can do a mid 3.57 in race trim, so I'm happy with that and having had no spin.

results: https://simresults.net/240618-3jJ

Great racing all.
cu next time

 

[stigs2cousin]

You'd care to be more specific about the setup ?

 

[Kek700]

For a start you may be going too soft on the front, allowing it to have to much grip.
That will induce a spin.
You may not be setting your dampers up incorrectly, allowing too much unwanted bound and rebound. Cannot remember if it has fast dampers, if it does do not ignore them.
Too much toe on a soft front setup can cause issues.
Your brake bias may under certain conditions causing a rear wheel lock if the car is pitching excessively. ( dampers )
Gearing can cause a sudden oversteer, too wide of a spacing on 1st, 2nd and 3rd
Basically, you want a grippy rear and a stiff front end to give it stability the dampers on this car are important.
Once you have a stable car you can then make adjustments to make it grip more at the front.
I cannot remember what adjustments are available for the car in detail. I'm on holiday.
But it does not matter, this car wants 2 things, a competent driver and or someone who can make it stable.
Stiff front soft rear make for a happy driving experience.
I could go on and on about this, but I have said enough to get you to this point.

 

[cerebralvortex]

For a start you may be going too soft on the front, allowing it to have to much grip.
That will induce a spin.
You may not be setting your dampers up incorrectly, allowing too much unwanted bound and rebound. Cannot remember if it has fast dampers, if it does do not ignore them.
Too much toe on a soft front setup can cause issues.
Your brake bias may under certain conditions causing a rear wheel lock if the car is pitching excessively. ( dampers )
Gearing can cause a sudden oversteer, too wide of a spacing on 1st, 2nd and 3rd
Basically, you want a grippy rear and a stiff front end to give it stability the dampers on this car are important.
Once you have a stable car you can then make adjustments to make it grip more at the front.
I cannot remember what adjustments are available for the car in detail. I'm on holiday.
But it does not matter, this car wants 2 things, a competent driver and or someone who can make it stable.
Stiff front soft rear make for a happy driving experience.
I could go on and on about this, but I have said enough to get you to this point.

Oh man, I feel really silly winning the race but not understanding any of this or not trying any of it.. All I did was set final gear one step back, front pressures +2, front arb somewhere in the middle and reduced rear arb a bit. Honestly it didn't feel great but it worked. This car feels really stable at default setup for me. Too stable. I wasn't able to cure the high speed understeer unfortunately so I had to lift quite a bit.

 

[Kek700]

I think it is aimed at the more average driver. As I said you either have to be a vgood driver or get a stable setup for the likes of me and similar folk.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Oh man, I feel really silly winning the race but not understanding any of this or not trying any of it..

DON´T!

Success proofs you right.

All I did was set final gear one step back, front pressures +2, front arb somewhere in the middle and reduced rear arb a bit. Honestly it didn't feel great but it worked. This car feels really stable at default setup for me. Too stable. I wasn't able to cure the high speed understeer unfortunately so I had to lift quite a bit.

I was able to get rid of most of the understeer, and where did it get me?

 

[stigs2cousin]

For a start you may be going too soft on the front, allowing it to have to much grip.
That will induce a spin.
You may not be setting your dampers up incorrectly, allowing too much unwanted bound and rebound. Cannot remember if it has fast dampers, if it does do not ignore them.
Too much toe on a soft front setup can cause issues.
Your brake bias may under certain conditions causing a rear wheel lock if the car is pitching excessively. ( dampers )
Gearing can cause a sudden oversteer, too wide of a spacing on 1st, 2nd and 3rd
Basically, you want a grippy rear and a stiff front end to give it stability the dampers on this car are important.
Once you have a stable car you can then make adjustments to make it grip more at the front.
I cannot remember what adjustments are available for the car in detail. I'm on holiday.
But it does not matter, this car wants 2 things, a competent driver and or someone who can make it stable.

And there we have it.

My disgust for understeer (and seeing the seconds tick away when you lift on the fast but twisty bits) made me do all those things you forbid

Stiff front soft rear make for a happy driving experience.

Actually no, this plowing mess makes puke into my simrig

I could go on and on about this, but I have said enough to get you to this point.

Thanks, much appreciated.
Lets see what happens at the next FvF

 

[Kek700]

Even an old git like me can be very competitive in this car, nearly matching the alien times. And I am “not” happy with the oversteer and brakes.
The only difference is they can handle the wayward nature, were I have to get help from the setup. If I was miles off the pace I could understand your distain with the beastie.
I know you can easily match my pace.

 

[cerebralvortex]

On my last qualy lap I was really pushing, I was 3 tenths down on Richard's time but hit a fence being a bit too greedy and that was it for the lap. Great time Richard!

Race start Richard didn't come off the line well and I took the lead. After a few laps it was Jason that was right behind me. Jason was really quick especially in the fast parts. At some point when braking for a corner he tapped my rear and I spun. That allowed Richard through in the lead. I had lost a bit of focus after this and Jason overtook me going after Richard. Then they collided right before going into that long straight both facing the wrong way. That allowed my to retake the lead. At that point I was doubting whether I would take the extra fuel for +1 lap. My fuel app predicted it was going to be one extra lap but I still had to pit. I played it safe since I had a bit of a margin behind and when I left the pit I had some 10+ seconds on Richard. From there on I wasn't pushing as hard. It's crazy how much time you lose when you start to ease a bit. Happy with the win!

I suppose everyone was on full fuel load at race start, right ?

It was quite intense and happy I joined. Setup wise certainly improvements to be made. I think I might hire Ernie for the next one

Thanks for this one Colin!

 

[JamKart22]

Some stunning times at the front - don't see where I would have found the few seconds needed to be at the sharp end of the grid.

Had a race long battle with Thomas. It was only resolved when I decided to ignore the fuel prediction and fuel it for one lap less - so saving a few valuable seconds.

We'll have a run around the high speed Bremgarten next week to see if the GT40 can be a bit more competitive. Not too many corners either!

 

[cerebralvortex]

Did you try the historic Sebring track ? The track itself is quite interesting. Not an easy track at all, not very flowing and the braking zones are quite difficult. I would say more of a challenge than Fat Alfie tracks but in a different way.

 

[JamKart22]

I forgot I said we'd do that next. I've just set up Bremgarten but I'll do that the following week - honest

 

[cerebralvortex]

I forgot I said we'd do that next. I've just set up Bremgarten but I'll do that the following week - honest

You don't have to, see if it works. Like I said, I think it's a difficult track and might cause quite a bit of accidents too.. But fitting for the cars I think.

 

[Twoddle]

Not a good race for me, I had pace but that caused the problem of being to confident in the brakes for my own good and rear ended Laurent and Richard. Laurent lost only a few seconds but Richard lost a lot of time and i was driving annoyed after that then crashed a few time and quit.

Very sorry to Laurent and a bigger sorry to Richard, you had great pace and i ruined it for you.

 

[stigs2cousin]

So in general this seems to be a "****up rich environment"?
Maybe i´ll just chance it next time and add my "slice of chaos" to the mix.
Still not sure I can trade safety for understeery need to lift, but one price you gotta pay....

Oh, and I found the reason i just couldn´t get to grips with Feldbergring.

I used the wrong steering wheel.
You just can´t drive a vintage Ferrari with your Mixercup wheel and expect it to behave the same.

Truck wheel is swapped in and tests at Bremgarten are commencing.

 

[Shed 17]

Have a go Carsten, I'd never driven he GT40 before and spent the race learning about it, a touch of brakes and lift to get the back end around was good fun and after the Ferraris disappeared up the road (lap1), it was just me and Steve racing the clock.
I know we all want to do well but I really enjoyed the driving experience once I had come to terms with how to get it to turn and felt that I had achieved something by not stuffing it into the scenery once during the 60 minutes.

Same with the Alfa Tipo 33, we have had some epic races in what at first seems like a beast, but persevering with it will bring results.