Can they cope with angre. Yes they can. He driven alongside and slept a palm face on sterring wheel. Did he cause any damage to the other car? No. Did the other car cause any damage to him? Yes. Did Hamilton repeated the behavior on restart (last safety car)? Yes he did. How is to blame?
FIA Investigation into Vettel / Hamilton Crash Opened
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
@CobraCat
"Vettel used his car as a weapon, he should have been black flagged, period !"
Seriously I can't hear that nonsense anymore...if that was "using his car as a weapon", what do you call full speed wheel to wheel racing then towards a corner and nobody wants to be the first to brake? Not the first time people hit other cars at much higher speeds when they could have avoided it, and that's shrugged off as normal racing incident.
"Vettel used his car as a weapon, he should have been black flagged, period !"
Seriously I can't hear that nonsense anymore...if that was "using his car as a weapon", what do you call full speed wheel to wheel racing then towards a corner and nobody wants to be the first to brake? Not the first time people hit other cars at much higher speeds when they could have avoided it, and that's shrugged off as normal racing incident.
By all means! Kick Vettel the f--- out. I'd also kick out Raikkonen because he's on the same team. Hamilton (and his buddy Justin Bieber) are the future. Two twinks in a can. Big hair, big boobs, fake thuggery, and Hollywood money. What more can you ask for? I mean...Sky F1 says it's true, so it must be.
James Comey....I mean CNN....I mean Hillary...I mean Wall Street....er....no....the FIA is always right! It's not like they cherry pick radio broadcast (as Grosjean asserts) to paint drivers a certain way! Oh wait...scratch that.
Well, it's not like the biased British media sucks up to power and political correctness! Oh wait, scratch that...we get 1/3rd of the real story, since FOM plays hardball.
Well, it's not like Hamilton lacks talent! Um....scratch that too (he's been spotted a 2-.5 second advantage, depending on the year).
He's clearly well grounded though...he never asks for favors like making his teammate back up so he can win! Erm...scratch that too...he's clearly entitled.
But really, Hamilton was also punished for his role in backing up traffic, which the stewards warned him about. Oh...never-mind. He wasn't.
Okay. I see what going on here. And I fully support it! I sure hope this isn't a ruse and the "investigation" is fair and balanced, instead of just pretext to either fake anger and get Ferrari or real anger in order to shake Ferrari down. (Dollars to doughnuts, a big fine is involved).
Seriously people. You all know that giant faceless bureaucracies are never wrong.
Dear Mr. Vettel,
Welcome to IndyCar.
James Comey....I mean CNN....I mean Hillary...I mean Wall Street....er....no....the FIA is always right! It's not like they cherry pick radio broadcast (as Grosjean asserts) to paint drivers a certain way! Oh wait...scratch that.
Well, it's not like the biased British media sucks up to power and political correctness! Oh wait, scratch that...we get 1/3rd of the real story, since FOM plays hardball.
Well, it's not like Hamilton lacks talent! Um....scratch that too (he's been spotted a 2-.5 second advantage, depending on the year).
He's clearly well grounded though...he never asks for favors like making his teammate back up so he can win! Erm...scratch that too...he's clearly entitled.
But really, Hamilton was also punished for his role in backing up traffic, which the stewards warned him about. Oh...never-mind. He wasn't.
Okay. I see what going on here. And I fully support it! I sure hope this isn't a ruse and the "investigation" is fair and balanced, instead of just pretext to either fake anger and get Ferrari or real anger in order to shake Ferrari down. (Dollars to doughnuts, a big fine is involved).
Seriously people. You all know that giant faceless bureaucracies are never wrong.
Dear Mr. Vettel,
Welcome to IndyCar.
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that's enough guys!! stop blaming vettel for attempt to the image of this sport, for not showing example for younger drivers, for driving dangerously!!! and hamilton? it was safety braking in a turn??? that's something that young driver should repeating? and after the race, in his interview he said if vettel wants discutting of that he can find him out of the track and they speak between men?!!! that's a champion's answer??!! let me laugh!!! i never like hamilton mentality, so, vettel makes a fault but that was not wanted!! percutting his car was also risked for his ferrari too!!! so let's this fact at baku and let these drivers fighting in the race normally in austria! don't fooled this sports with stupid penalty or investigate and penalise both of them!
Vettel was wrong, no doubt, but the penalty was more severe than 2 points in favour of Vettel.
BTW, have you never watched Arnoux vs. Villeneuve? Did you not see Senna running Prost off to win the championship? How about every touring car or NASCAR race? How about weaving and blocking going on every race? Indycars rubbing at 4 times the speed and what's with Hamilton? "Hey Charlie..." or asking his teammate to back Vettel up. 2 Prima Dona's of the sport who think the race and rules are for their benefit. Geesh!
BTW, have you never watched Arnoux vs. Villeneuve? Did you not see Senna running Prost off to win the championship? How about every touring car or NASCAR race? How about weaving and blocking going on every race? Indycars rubbing at 4 times the speed and what's with Hamilton? "Hey Charlie..." or asking his teammate to back Vettel up. 2 Prima Dona's of the sport who think the race and rules are for their benefit. Geesh!
Óscar Melero
Foxtochop
I voted yes in the poll but I don't see any "Penalty for each driver for their respective actions ocurred"
Or what about the 6-8 times Nico nearly ran someone off the track doing 300 KPH on a straight? That was his signature move. Or that 100% deliberate attempt to wreck Hamilton in Austria? (The FIA is an equal opportunity driver-hating organization). What Max and Nico did last year alone is 1000x more dangerous than what Vettel did in Baku. To pretend that Vettel was "intentional and dangerous" is ignoring fact, and exposes the bias in F1-world against any non English/Dutch/French/Scandinavian driver (just ask the wildly successful Michael Andretti). Most people outside old Europe get this. It's actually part of what attracts me to F1...when you rule with an iron fist and are, effectively a police-state monopoly, you can do good things (like the tendency to keep the race going, which Americans could learn from), but you also have to own the adage -- absolute power corrupts absolutely. The manufacturers are running this show.
is it braking if you don`t touch the brakes?
... according to telemetry ... not saying it was good place to play his strategy
I'm sorry, but that is simply ludicrous logic to use.
The only reason that Vettel, penalty in hand, finished in front of Hamilton, was because of the headrest issue.
You're in dire need of a reality check. Your idol is the one with the most points deducted from his licence. Must be a conspiracy, not his doing.
Oh, and you seem to be emulating his "everyone wrong, me right" behavior quite well.
Davide Sciacca
Premium
A verdict has been already reached. End of discussion. You can be in agree or not but if they were not sure about the penalty the should had to wait the end of the race and tell what they decided before the podium, in my humble opinion.
This is the death of motorsport, not only F1.
When a sport become politics, it's time to look somewhere else.
Written by a hater of F1 management politics. JK, I hate everything about F1 since 2009. Not more a fan.
This is the death of motorsport, not only F1.
When a sport become politics, it's time to look somewhere else.
Written by a hater of F1 management politics. JK, I hate everything about F1 since 2009. Not more a fan.
Why do they even discuss about it? I mean, it was wrong what Vettel did, but he got his penalty. And it wasn't really intention. When you look at the replay you can see that Vettel didn't move to Hamilton to "punch" him, the steering was just not straight and he touched him softly. Vettel didn't want to damage him, or take him out of the race. It was just a little wakeup for Hamilton. Leave it, its past.
David O'Reilly
A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.
A deliberate agressive contact with the car that he is racing for the World Championship, that basically emanated from anger that he himself misjudged Hamiltons intention (to accellerate of not).
Vettel has a real problem admitting that he ever does wrong.
The total lack of contrition or acceptance of guilt means he needs a tougher penalty.
Vettel has a real problem admitting that he ever does wrong.
The total lack of contrition or acceptance of guilt means he needs a tougher penalty.
I stopped watching F1 a few years ago, but all this indignation on here about this has made me watch this incident a few times in isolation out of curiosity. That's 20 minutes I'm never getting back, but as a neutral...
Hamilton didn't brake check anyone, that's apparently been established via telemetry, but he was (legally) manipulating the pace to maximise his advantage for the restart, while also making sure he didn't pass the SC prematurely and get himself a penalty...which, I think it's fair to assume, all drivers in that position would be doing, including Vettel. They may have done it differently, but they all would have been doing something to balance those slightly contradictory goals. Every driver behind should be aware of those circumstances and drive accordingly.
Vettel ignored these circumstances (charitably, he might have been was monitoring the other drivers around himself but that's not really a full excuse), and drove into the back of someone based on what he presumed they would do (possibly what he wanted them to do) rather than what was actually happening in front of him. So he's undeniably at fault there. As far as I could see and read, no-one else drove into anyone else through the safety car period. How serious was it? Probably not that much. Worth a penalty? For me, not really - a public ticking off (name and shame) by the stewards would have covered it I reckon.
What happens next though is a different situation, because every subsequent action was entirely optional. He chose to do them, he wasn't being forced to react to circumstances unfolding in front of him that he had anticipated wrongly. He could have done nothing. Penalty worthy? Yes, for sure, and they got it about right from what I could see - purely based on the incidents within the race.
Vettel's attitude post-race though has undeniably been pretty shabby. Has Hamilton's semi-philosophical passive-aggressive stance since the incident magnified the perception of Vettel's poor behaviour? Undoubtedly...but you can only really pull that off if you actually do have some kind of moral high ground within the circumstances. Hamilton has effectively verbally not stood on the accelerator again, and allowed Vettel to have another crash all by himself with the attitude he's shown post-race, and hence this further investigation.
It's like the military doctrine of "never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake". Whether Vettel and Ferrari can actually see that this could have been avoided by keeping schtum and taking the penalty on the chin is another matter.
Hamilton didn't brake check anyone, that's apparently been established via telemetry, but he was (legally) manipulating the pace to maximise his advantage for the restart, while also making sure he didn't pass the SC prematurely and get himself a penalty...which, I think it's fair to assume, all drivers in that position would be doing, including Vettel. They may have done it differently, but they all would have been doing something to balance those slightly contradictory goals. Every driver behind should be aware of those circumstances and drive accordingly.
Vettel ignored these circumstances (charitably, he might have been was monitoring the other drivers around himself but that's not really a full excuse), and drove into the back of someone based on what he presumed they would do (possibly what he wanted them to do) rather than what was actually happening in front of him. So he's undeniably at fault there. As far as I could see and read, no-one else drove into anyone else through the safety car period. How serious was it? Probably not that much. Worth a penalty? For me, not really - a public ticking off (name and shame) by the stewards would have covered it I reckon.
What happens next though is a different situation, because every subsequent action was entirely optional. He chose to do them, he wasn't being forced to react to circumstances unfolding in front of him that he had anticipated wrongly. He could have done nothing. Penalty worthy? Yes, for sure, and they got it about right from what I could see - purely based on the incidents within the race.
Vettel's attitude post-race though has undeniably been pretty shabby. Has Hamilton's semi-philosophical passive-aggressive stance since the incident magnified the perception of Vettel's poor behaviour? Undoubtedly...but you can only really pull that off if you actually do have some kind of moral high ground within the circumstances. Hamilton has effectively verbally not stood on the accelerator again, and allowed Vettel to have another crash all by himself with the attitude he's shown post-race, and hence this further investigation.
It's like the military doctrine of "never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake". Whether Vettel and Ferrari can actually see that this could have been avoided by keeping schtum and taking the penalty on the chin is another matter.
First of all, I´m a tiffoso. What Vettel did was not dangerous. It was simply ridiculous and not worthy of a four time world champion. What´s wrong with german drivers?? Shumacher did some pretty similar things in his time and was (as I can remember) properly sanctioned for it. A 10 sec penalty is ridiculous and it has been awarded only for the the TV broadcast ratings. The important thing was to not spoil the race and keep us on our toes until the end. Therefor, I hope he gets further punishment so he can think twice before he does it again because the way the championship is unfolding, sooner or later something worse would happen.
He should of been black flagged, so therefore he should lose his points for that race
What a great post. We could do with more objective, level-headed posts like this on the forum
