FIA Approves Merger Between WTCC and TCR. WTCR Is Here!

[Akra]

So you think in 10 years factory teams will still be pumping millions into petrol race cars?

I didn’t say that and you’re putting words into my mouth. I’m tell you the business model of why GT3/GT4/TCR is successful and why it won’t turn electric within 2 years. I notice your two years has now become 10 years.

Volvo is not making electric only cars now. Le Mans is not doing electric only laps now. TCR will not be an all electric class in 2 years.

 

[Andrew Harper]

Le Mans will now have to have a percentage of laps under pure electric power

I know what you are referring to but I think that requirement was dropped. It was something proposed by the ACO/FIA and then I believe with the new regulations coming in the manufacturers didn't want this extra expense on top of all the millions they are spending already. It required rapid charging systems, and massive changes to the way the powertrain worked. I could be wrong but I think it was put on the back burner or it's still being discussed. I think LMP1-H may go the way of the new F1 regs and the hybrid systems will be simplified not made more complex.

I have mixed opinions. Hybrid is the future for sure but my concern in motorsport use is the cost. You go from a relatively simple petrol engine to a complex petrol/electric setup that can cost up to five times the amount to run during the year.

In LMP1-H the millions that went into trying to out-perform one another on the powerplant side of things has effectively killed the class off. The factory teams were developing whole new cars and powerplants every year that were wildly different to the year before.

Touring car has always been the lower end of the budget scale (apart from in the factory super touring days) but once you start involving factory teams and hi-tech like hybrid the costs will spiral like you wouldn't believe and my fear is this will kill privateers or simply kill the class completely.

There's a reason why TCR is popular. It's cheap(ish), the cars are available off the shelf, and anyone can run a team if they have the budget and desire. Just like GT3, GT4.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just putting my view across. In my view Hybrid, electric, hydrogen fuel, etc. belongs in sports car racing not in touring car.

Anyway back to the main story, glad that a merger has been agreed, looking forward to 2018.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Last off topic from me. We should start a separate thread to ramble on about pros and cons of electricity .

However Tesla is more about a sustainable energy solution for vehicles. The idea that we will, for fact, run out of fossil fuels in our life time and therefore we do need an alternative and we should get it sooner rather than later.

Solar power is the only real alternative. Instead of hyping the Formula E series brands should support the World Solar Challenge instead as that is truly sustainable.

Also I am not saying that petrol powered cars aren't a problem, they sure are. But some people do want to make it look like motorsport is pure polution which it isn't really on any scale.

but it’s unfair to have a go at somebody who is actually trying to better humanity.

Oh please There are lot of people trying to better humanity but Tesla really isn't the first that springs to mind if you ask me.

Don't want to pollute commuting to work in London CBD? Take a bicycle. Better for the environment and your health.

survive the next mass extinction

Start by having 1 kid per mom and dad and all our problems are solved within two generations. We really kill ourselves and none of what we discuss here is going to prevent that.

Sorry for the offtopic btw, we should really head back to WTCR

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

There's a reason why TCR was popular. It is cheap(ish), the cars are available off the shelf, and anyone can run a team if they have the budget and desire.

And because the dominating factory teams were absent the races were pretty close. Only downside of the old TCR for me was the Formula 1 tracks they were racing on sometimes.

I don't think touring cars are suitable to race at Tilke domes. I rather seem them on classic European circuits in the UK, Germany, Scandinavia and other historical venues that have been neglected by WTCC in recent years as well.

 

[bluey]

just imagine WTCR in new Reiza title, truly a selling point of Reiza18 :o

with VR to i hope

 

[Akra]

Solar power isn’t the only real alternative (I’m studying renewable energy btw - good luck with solar on large scale further from the equator), however it’s a good thing Tesla is actually an energy provider and solar panel producer then isn’t it?

I also didn’t say there aren’t others who aren’t trying to better humanity. I just said he is. People seem to think that if your a fan of Elon (or Jobs, or Bezos) than you think they’re the only one doing things. He’s providing renewable energy sources, vehicles that run on alternative energy, and trying to give humanity a back up plan. What a horrible person! Is remarkable how defence people get when you point out someone is doing something good. “Oh please! Others do good too!” Yeah, they do, which is brilliant. Doesn’t make the original statement wrong.

And I do have 1 kid per family which would be a valid point if it wasn’t deliverer deflecting from what I was talking about. Someone is trying to provide a backup plan! How dare they! We should just hope the world stops reproducing and that’ll be enough!

I understand people don’t like how absolutely boring electric cars are, but people jump through hopes to come up with some mad justifications on not liking Musk.

Electric cars are coming. But not to TCR in the next 2 years. And no, rockets don’t do anywhere near as much damage as people think. Ships do, and whilst they contribute to global warming they don’t contribute to poor air quality. And motorsport does basically no damage to the environment compared to anything else. Flying football teams around the world will do more than motorsport.

 

[Andrew Harper]

And because the dominating factory teams were absent the races were pretty close. Only downside of the old TCR for me was the Formula 1 tracks they were racing on sometimes.

I don't think touring cars are suitable to race at Tilke domes. I rather seem them on classic European circuits in the UK, Germany, Scandinavia and other historical venues that have been neglected by WTCC in recent years as well.

Not quite the same thing I know but I was watching the old BPR series some time ago and I forgot about all the unusual tracks they use to visit. I agree it would be lovely if the new series visited more out of the way circuits or street circuits.

 

[Akra]

Funnily enough, circuits is the one thing FE is interesting for. TCR on those would be a very interesting series. Much better than on F1 sized circuits.

 

[Andrew Harper]

Funnily enough, circuits is the one thing FE is interesting for. TCR on those would be a very interesting series. Much better than on F1 sized circuits.

What was that circuit the WTCC raced on this year? It had a roundabout! That was nuts. I loved that one

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

What was that circuit the WTCC raced on this year? It had a roundabout! That was nuts. I loved that one

Morocco?

 

[Andrew Harper]

Morocco?

Found it, Portugal. Very fast for a street circuit. Would love to see this one in Raceroom.

 

[apex11]

I don't want to keep banging on about it, but the merger to WTCC is because they want to take TCR and glam it up a bit with the FIA sanction. This in turn will drawn in factory teams even if done via stealth (ie they back the teams but not 'officially').
The idea TCR want to keep it as a small production car series is a bit off piste.

 

[Luan Garcia]

I think there is a much simpler reason why TCR isn`t going to be eletric: public.
It is a business, and as a business they need profit. I visit many sites of racing fans and I'm pretty sure that a big part of racing fans wouldn't be interested in a eletric TCR. At least not as the only option.

 

[ARTeam]

R.I.P. WTCC

The TC1 Cars are so beautiful, especially tthe Citroen & Lada.

 

[Richard Wilks]

In every corner of the internet, there is always someone bigging up the the holy saint mr. Musk....

You say he wants to help humanity, i say he is a vain egocentric who is too rich and too bored with life, and wants to be something he is not, in this case, some sort of visionary or genius.

Electric cars with batteries are a joke, and a dangerous one at that, specially for the cobalt and lithium explorations, all nice things for humans to be even near... unless something orders of magnitude better comes along in battery technology, they are just to expensive, too cumbersome, and frankly too costly even in environment terms to be any future whatsoever. You can say the air in the cities will improve, and i say maybe, but that won't matter when our oceans will be dying from micro polution, but you can't sell fancy toilets and swear treatment plants to the bug eyed, cocaine fed new money of silicon valley... how can one brag about that??..

And i have to say it AGAIN the ICE engine can run on anything that burns. Saying "fossil fuel" engine is double speak, and intellectual dishonesty. A much bigger effort should be made to actually improve the fuels we do burn in those ships and planes mentioned, and not just give politicians and new found lobbies free reign to ban things that cheap, true and tested, for battery cars that will never be cheap, because they use materials rarer than gold itself to be built...

 

[thatmotorfreak]

Blah blah blah all this talk about electric motors...

Anyway while this is great for tintop racing; I want to take a moment and point out the sheer ugliness of the new logo.

https://i.redditmedia.com/SuPHK_Is1....jpg?w=595&s=c4bdcf184e8f486a4b813740921a922e

At least the new F1 logo had some form to it.

 

[Knoxstar]

The 26 plus 2 wild cards is probably designed to ensure a quality field of cars. I hope they allow more to try to qualify for the limited spots but it appears that with priority given to teams in either the WTCC or TCR that it will be more or less a guaranteed grid.

 

[NASCRAP]

In every corner of the internet, there is always someone bigging up the the holy saint mr. Musk....

He's a welfare queen. His companies wouldn't exist without government handouts. Rich, sanctimonious celebrities like Bill Maher also get handouts to buy his cars. All subsidized with the tax money of people who actually work for a living.

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

Blah blah blah all this talk about electric motors...

Anyway while this is great for tintop racing; I want to take a moment and point out the sheer ugliness of the new logo.

https://i.redditmedia.com/SuPHK_Is1....jpg?w=595&s=c4bdcf184e8f486a4b813740921a922e

At least the new F1 logo had some form to it.

yes, this is truly a logo not happening. it would be fine as a first draft in a design class, but as a finished product ...

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

sry, off topic