Ferrari SF-70H Driving Style & Tips

[TheMaroon47]

Anyone have any tips on driving or setup for the SF-70H? Feels like I'm doing something wrong when I'm driving it, but nothing that's truly noticeable, likely me just being nitpicky on my own driving style. The car slides mid-corner sometimes but that's likely due to a lack of downforce (not enough downforce anyway). Anything anyone's got with driving this beast would be appreciated

 

[TheMaroon47]

So I just did my fastest lap which was a 1.06.930 with my own guesstimated projected best time to be a 1.06.6XX assuming that every single thing I did on that lap was perfect. Anyone know how closely this car resembles the one in real life? I mean I know it *should* have the same performance, and I've seen others saying it's very similar (meaning not exactly?), so some more time can be gained from setup corrections. Glad I came here to ask though. Gone from "Complete Noob" > "Average/Good?" in the span of a day or two . Thanks to all of you.
EDIT: 1.06.447

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

There are some significant differences (like simplified wear or lack of track/gps specific software setup) but in general, AC cars on standard GP tracks seem to be pretty close (up to 0.5s difference probably) laptime wise.

Still if that high 1.06 was with supers and 20° or 26° temp you got really good really fast (judjging by rsr) Congrats

Also setup wise, as long as tyres are in the optimum, I don't see that much time in setup... well compared to some other cars like gt or old formulas. (thou i'd like to be proven wrong)

 

[TheMaroon47]

There are some significant differences (like simplified wear or lack of track/gps specific software setup) but in general, AC cars on standard GP tracks seem to be pretty close (up to 0.5s difference probably) laptime wise.

Still if that high 1.06 was with supers and 20° or 26° temp you got really good really fast (judjging by rsr) Congrats

Also setup wise, as long as tyres are in the optimum, I don't see that much time in setup... well compared to some other cars like gt or old formulas. (thou i'd like to be proven wrong)

Well if the cars only have a difference of 0.5s around GP tracks, then we must be doing something very wrong
If you take my time and slap it into the 2017 RBR Quali session, it would be 17th. I really don't see where my driving could improve by 2 seconds. A few tenths here and there, definitely, but likely less than a second. Now I know I'm being nitpicky here but would be nice to get a little closer. I've seen a video of someone doing a 1.05.254, so I believe that's what can be improved in the setup.
Also, I wouldn't say I've gotten "really good, really fast". It's more like I remembered how to drive an F1 car more than anything

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

Well if the cars only have a difference of 0.5s around GP tracks, then we must be doing something very wrong
If you take my time and slap it into the 2017 RBR Quali session, it would be 17th.

Not "we" i'd be right around Kimi. I'm really bad at RBR but 1:05.0 after some practice, could probably shave 0.5 with driving and 0.5 with setup...

Anyways, advanced setup tips would need me to actually learn this car... but in case you are missing something obvious make sure you are using:
- low track temp
- Ultra softs
- minimum pressures
- hotlap or manual ERS deployment
- low fuel (6L)
- relatively high aero, with front biased balance ie.: 19/16
- high engine braking (and less so recovery) OR almost minimum brake balance.

The last 0.5s i think is with dampers and polishing stuff up.

 

[RasmusP]

Little off topic drop by:
Every time I think I couldn't improve further and there must be something hidden in ambient settings or car setup I ask @BhZ to drive a few laps and after 5-10 laps he beat the crap out of my time.
When I ask nicely he sends me his full telemetry + replay file and it does look very similar, yet I can always spot a few differences.
I then spend an hour analyzing every little detail that's different and make notes. Mostly 1-2 sheets in word.
I then try to adjust my line, inputs etc and go 2s slower first and then it starts to work.

I always get stuck at a point where I have no clue how to get faster. Seeing someone just doing it and then taking notes from real data is awesome as I just always shave 1-2s off my pace easily!

From the latest video above I see that you miss the apex a few times or hit it too early. Your car is too fast and unstable before you hit the throttle again. Try to brake a bit more carefully, go a bit slower again compared o your current speed and try not to "force the speed on the car". You need to flow a bit more and get a better exit.
In short: softer braking, get the car into the exit position earlier with a little later apex and hit the throttle earlier. Also your inputs are a bit like on/off. You need to use the pedals a bit more smoothly.
If you wanna see some amazing laps go on BhZ's YouTube channel and watch his laps. He's not yet the fastest guy out there but his skill and detail in driving is awesome. Like watching a robot

 

[Mr Deap]

The brake input & steering input don't have to be in sync to profit on the slip angle. Same goes for the accelerator.

 

[RasmusP]

The brake input & steering input don't have to be in sync to profit on the slip angle. Same goes for the accelerator.

You meant DO have to be in sync right? So all forces on the tyre patch are at the edge of the tension circle?
If so: yes, nice tip and a good visualization on how to use the inputs!

 

[Mr Deap]

I really mean you don't. You put a lot of focus on being smoother on the throttle/brake, but forget about the user being on sync with the steering which end up make the user underdriving. Which is why I point out to not be on sync. It's more like following a specific rate rather than be on sync, but the percentage is higher on the brake/accelerator.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that you want less steering input.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

Deap stop, load up AC, drive the car and report back when you do 1:30 on silverstone or 1:07 or RBR.
Your advice does makes some sense for some cars... but SF70H it's not just another racer.

For example you mentioned earlier you need to tap the brakes everywhere... BUT not only this car has enough deceleration mid corner to snap oversteer on you without even touching brake pedal, but also pushing pedals changes diff lock which creates car response opposite to what you think it would.

Same with steering sync. It has very long wheelbase with chassis heavily set for rear grip, so in each corner phase the optimum steering angle can be wildly different. The transitions will have significant steering changes no matter what, you can't say "steer less".
Even worse, car is so stiff that there is no "rate of sync" for it, the chassis response to pedals is instant, and it requires instant steering change - it's so fast, you need to start unwinding steering >before< you can mash the throttle even.

 

[Mr Deap]

Deap stop, load up AC, drive the car and report back when you do 1:30 on silverstone or 1:07 or RBR.
Your advice does makes some sense for some cars... but SF70H it's not just another racer.

Random video on youtube

@TheMaroon47 input on red bull ring

@Pawel Ziolkowski, so what do you think of the edit? Does my rate of sync make sense along with @TheMaroon47 underdriving the car?

You actually have a point in some way, since I didn't played AC for a good 2 months.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

[edit] wtf a double post, sorry got confused and posted edit as new reply apparently, please ignore.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

Sorry but no it doesn't. Rather, it's proving my point. You have to have synchronization between steering and power/braking.

Left vid is fast and the steering is moved accordingly to changes in longitudinal acceleration. While Right vid lags in one input or another, with power lag on exit being more problematic laptime wise, abut happens in braking too. Look at 1:11 of your own vid, right car washes wide partially due to a steering-braking mismatch.

"The brake input & steering input don't have to be in sync to profit on the slip angle. Same goes for the accelerator." - this can be true with a well balanced GT3 car or similar, but not in the SF70H, that's my point.

edit: restored the original post.

 

[Mr Deap]

The starting it's important to have the steering almost straight when to start to release the brake. The method is to kind of want to "push in, in delay" more angle at every step you release it as slower the car get. If you release the brake at the same speed you turn in(I mean the way you don't want to provoke imbalance), you basically lose turn in efficiency, because the goal is to force the rotation.

You can hold the same brake pressure & delay the "steer in", after release one notch of the brake & delay, more "steer in".

@Pawel Ziolkowski, In my mind & probably for many others... sync would look exactly like @TheMaroon47 inputs. I'm not stating you're wrong, I'm just ridiculously stupidly confused with many term used in sim racing that contradict a normal person would envision, although hold 100% true for alien.

 

[BhZ]

Personally i don't focus so much on syncronization. I simply try stuff, understand what the car can and can't do and work from there. If you drive with the costant thought of being perfect, you will end up being slower.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

The starting it's important to have the steering almost straight when to start to release the brake. The method is to kind of want to "push in, in delay" more angle at every step you release it as slower the car get. If you release the brake at the same speed you turn in(I mean the way you don't want to provoke imbalance), you basically lose turn in efficiency, because the goal is to force the rotation.

You can hold the same brake pressure & delay the "steer in", after release one notch of the brake & delay, more "steer in".

@Pawel Ziolkowski, In my mind & probably for many others... sync would look exactly like @TheMaroon47 inputs. I'm not stating you're wrong, I'm just ridiculously stupidly confused with many term used in sim racing that contradict a normal person would envision, although hold 100% true for alien.

Firstly, sync (short of synchronization) means "The operation or activity of two or more things at the same time or rate." (from oxford dict.)
In our case, brake input is different in nature to steering so it's hard to compare their rates, thus we are left with one interpretation: time.
Having input in sync means moving at the same time. So let's look at what you consider exactly in sync input: the TheMaroon47 lap (the one at RBR you used earlier)

T1 braking - steering starts to change 0.15s before brakes.
T1 acceleration - it takes 0.5s !!!!! for driver to start changing throttle from cornering power to exit power after the steering started to move from cornering position to exit position. That's half a second lost on the laptime! How can you call that "in sync".
T2 braking - there was ~0.2s lag in releasing brake after initiating turn in.
T2 acceleration - this one is interesting because while both inputs are in sync, the car output's aren't, and power lags 0.5 to 0.9s behind steering. That's why i was mentioning car acceleration to steering earlier not throttle pedal to steering.
T3 braking - brakes lag 0.2s behind steering, and continues with mismatch for next 0.3s causing missed apex and lost time.

A direct result of not changing the inputs (or rather steering/brake input and car power) at the same time is under or over-working the tyres. And while we should say: "match the inputs so that tyres are constantly utilized to 100%" instead of just "be in sync" i thought it would be obvious to people who read this thread since we are racers after all. Guess not, but then look at how many people had the same idea what sync means in this case (BhZ, RasmusP, me) and who has problems (you).

 

[Mr Deap]

Guess not, but then look at how many people had the same idea what sync means in this case (BhZ, RasmusP, me) and who has problems (you).

Why only pointing me. I even took my time to edit a video side by side to debunk the loophole.

If you seek any random video of AC, about races or special event achievement filtered by upload date. Pretty much everyone do the same mistake.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

Why only pointing me. I even took my time to edit a video side by side to debunk the loophole.

It's because of your posting history over the years here and in AC forums...
Anyways i'm still not sure what exactly did you mean with that "sync" and "rate", but i don't have to... we can agree to disagree.

If you seek any random video of AC, about races or special event achievement filtered by upload date. Pretty much everyone do the same mistake.

I guess i need to get my eyes checked then... because that 1:05.357 vid you've found is pretty clean in this regard.

No matter, it was my mistake starting this up. Carry on.

 

[Mr Deap]

Your explanation is quite accurate which add up to the correct method to trail brake in AC. It add up how to how to get a better understanding on cutting time.

Although, Investigating my advices pattern in the whole thread... Look at the key difference you see in the video comparison. It may be quite fascinating in some way.

 

[Kek700]

It's a simulation, in the real world every thing is instant, in a simulation everything has
a computational time attached to it.
If you can visually spot that loophole, you can exploit it.

Just a thought

 

[Kek700]

It's a simulation, in the real world every thing is instant, in a simulation everything has
a computational time attached to it.
If you can visually spot that loophole, you can exploit it.

Just a thought

Wrote that late last night, just read it, missed the point of it out completely.

I think Mr Deep is trying to explain an anomaly within sim racing that does not exists in the real world
whilst every one else talks relative to the real world.

I also think that some small percentage of people have that ability in varying degrees.
The rest of us have to work hard to search it out from within ourselves, by making
sure we maximize what we can maximize on the virtual race track.

I am sure Mr Deep will tell me that's not true With respect to what I have just wrote