Ferrari Penalty Review Dismissed by FIA

  • Deleted member 113561

Just a matter of interpretation. Everyone is entitled to make a mistake which can not always be punished as is would've been done on purpose. It was a doubtable situation for which Vettel shoud've had the benefit. Besides, Hamilton had plenty of time to react and overtake Vettel from behind instead of staying on the racing line and provoke a penalty; then there would've been no discussion at all. Vettel was still ahead and there was no contact, so in a way he had the right to defend his position although it was a bit harsh.
No, not an interpretation, those are the facts.
Now what you say is an opinion. Can add to that, that Hamilton has the right to attempt a move and very probably expected a safe rejoin from Vettel, so hence why he attempted to go to the right (also in hindsight of avoiding him, after the additional oversteer caused by the kerb).
 
No, not an interpretation, those are the facts.
Just an interpretation, no fact at all.

You should know that when a car hits the grass that all grip has gone, every bit of movement (throttling, braking, steering) results in a spin, so every action you suggested is irrelevant.
The only right course of action to take is letting the car roll back onto track and then make the movement, hopefully avoid that spin and stay out of trouble; an unverifiable situation which can never be penalized. Vettel handled in a proper way. A racing incident, the stewards were wrong. In case of contact between the cars, the stewards their decision would've been justified.

Obviously you're part of the minority who wants to see everything being penalized and I'm part of the majority who wants to see more racing action without stewards interfering all the time. That's where we disagree.

Back to the time that drivers were gladiators instead of a bunch of overregulated sissies.
 
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Just stick the whole boring shooting match in a simulator!
'Unsafe return' indeed.
Let's hear it for the total castration of 'Racing' and the over regulation of 'Safe Racing'.
Good thing we enthusiasts still have MotoGP and the IOM TT to watch genuine racing heroes!
 
Review dismissed - not surprising really. Stewards "ruled" themselves in the corner when they handed penalty during the race - there is no "review" after that. They would have left the decision to after-race.
The saddest thing is that decision killed intrigue and racing, we are getting so few instances of that lately in F1.
 
On the contrary, he had clearly the possibility to cut over the grass more to the left and rejoin slower - those are the facts. That he lost control over the kerb while rejoining is his fault! That he went wide is also his fault.

First, If you think he had any control on that off-camber grass, you are very very much mistaken.
You lose control on that off-camber grass with walls close to you at 150kmh most certainly pressing the brakes will throw him into a spin or crash the walls.What you do - is exactly what Vettel did.

Vettel did great job at avoiding a crash with walls and other driver, maintaining control and safely going out on track. Which has been done many times before in similar fashion and nothing happened.

Second thing, your own opinion is not a fact, but just an opinion and although I may respect it (nothing against that) it is completely wrong on many levels. First, you cannot play those options in split second like this is some nintendo game.

There is one fact though, Lewis Hamilton did not got a penalty of any sort for a relatively identical situation with Daniel Ricciardo in Monaco 2016, making this call on Vettel, completely ridiculous and very much serious thing for F1 community and the way F1 implements their rules.

The ironic thing about the penalty is, he is penalized for dangerous rejoining: first I am not sure how do you rejoin safely when you are racing at full speed with driver behind your back. Second that wasnt really rejoining but merely going off track for a split second and rejoining was inevitable and the driver behind should've realized that because in such moments "it is yellow flag" and under yellow flag, "you slow down" however Lewis pressed on! Do you know why? Because yellow flags cannot be thrown out in the very same second Vettel missed his braking point! Because they both were racing and everything happens in split second. But stewards weren't seeing that, they weren't thinking like racing drivers and like that was a race - rather like a robbery case with Vettel being the thief.... So, Vettel returned without hurting anyone intentionally, and everything was sorted out in short time by two great champions on track. The other thing why this penalty was ridiculously stupid is "pushing other driver off the track" and again it wouldn't had come to that if Hamilton didn't stuck his nose where it did not belong and instead acting according the rules that I just chew out above, which we see F1 is so keen on implementing them - Hamilton broke one in the same second but was completely overlooked - and we came to the point where Vettel said with great humor "F1 can burn their rulebook". That was racing accident - nothing more.

But that is racing in a nutschell. Lewis was clever to think that through and make that move to trigger the penalty. He is cunning, use what you can use. He says he will do just the same if he was in Vettel's position. Vettel on the other side loses control and rejoins safely enough without any accident or intentionally pushing anyone, and then he gets penalty and the race everyone wanted to see in this stupidly boring championship and waited to see for few months went away and here we are now talking about this bullshit for weeks, and we will in the future too, because no matter how you interpret the case, it will always come in favor of Vettel, because opposes everything that F1 and racing stands for.
 
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Whatever the rights and wrongs of the penalty Ferarri and Vettel have caused themselves more problems by carrying this on into this race weekend. It's clearly affected Vettel's mindset and his performance. I won't be at all surprised to see him make a significant mistake today. He's almost certainly got an on track battle with Max coming up and that will need all his resilience - which seems to have gone missing.

Professional sports people should know better than to dwell on mistakes and perceived slights or injustices or have a team of advisors that can help them do that. Hamilton revels in opponents (and often teammates) misfortunes, he's done it time and time again and Vettel is playing into his hands with his dummy spitting behaviour.

They should have taken the penalty on the chin, then forgotten it and come back determined to set the record straight this weekend by winning on track.
 
  • Deleted member 113561

First, If you think he had any control on that off-camber grass, you are very very much mistaken.
You lose control on that off-camber grass with walls close to you at 150kmh most certainly pressing the brakes will throw him into a spin or crash the walls.What you do - is exactly what Vettel did.
Since when have you ever driven a Formula 1 car under race condition and drove on the grass?
Cars with less downforce and grip have shown that you can control the car to a certain extent on dry grass.

Second thing, your own opinion is not a fact, but just an opinion and although I may respect it (nothing against that) it is completely wrong on many levels. First, you cannot play those options in split second like this is some nintendo game.
You are mistaken, it is a fact that he rejoined unsafely and impeded Hamilton (according to regulations, they all agreed on). For the rest of your incorrect thinking about opinions and facts, I will respond in the very last paragraph here.
F1 drivers have lightning reaction times (which they btw. practice a lot), see i.e. Raikonnen vs Hamilton on pit exit Suzuka 2012, you are incorrect again.

There is one fact though, Lewis Hamilton did not got a penalty of any sort for a relatively identical situation with Daniel Ricciardo in Monaco 2016, making this call on Vettel, completely ridiculous and very much serious thing for F1 community and the way F1 implements their rules.
Wrong, the situation was nowhere near the same. When Hamilton rejoined the track, the racing line was clear, nobody was coming (though somebody was behind, but they both overshot, he was not slower due to the rejoin). Hamilton had a worse acceleration out of the (overshot) corner, which allowed Ricciardo to go alongside - Hamilton left ENOUGH room (clearly visible watching the onboards), but Ricciardo started to lose car control due to the fact that he was on slicks and the area Hamilton left open was very wet, those are the facts.
You can also clearly see the distinct differences, Vettel didn't leave enough room and cut across a much faster approaching Hamilton. These are the facts, yours is a distorted fanboy view of the incident.

The ironic thing about the penalty is, he is penalized for dangerous rejoining: first I am not sure how do you rejoin safely when you are racing at full speed with driver behind your back. [I will not answer on the rest of your paragraph because too much bullshit and I won't waste time on it]
There is your problem, you NEVER should rejoin at full speed. But again, you are misinformed, Vettel never tried to rejoin at full speed. Additionally rejoining the track should not give you the right to stay ahead, safety should always comes first.
No need to answer on the rest of your bs, see my last paragraph here.

Lewis was clever to think that through and make that move to trigger the penalty. He is cunning, use what you can use. He says he will do just the same if he was in Vettel's position. Vettel on the other side loses control and rejoins safely enough without any accident or intentionally pushing anyone, and then he gets penalty and the race everyone wanted to see in this stupidly boring championship and waited to see for few months went away and here we are now talking about this bullshit for weeks, and we will in the future too, because no matter how you interpret the case, it will always come in favor of Vettel, because opposes everything that F1 and racing stands for.
Just wow, the amount of stupidity and misinformation of you is insane. Additional to that you can not distinguish between facts and opinions - you intentionally try to sell your opinion as facts and don't understand what facts are.
Professionals said it multiple times and I repeat it here, strict to the rule book it is a violation! And the stewards interpreted it that way aswell. "it will always come in favor of Vettel" - not in this world, rightfully so.

As we are a sim community, you exactly know that is a big no no to rejoin directly back on the racing line, when the track is not clear. If you have raced a lot, you probably have experienced several crashes due to bad rejoins like this.

P.s.
Hilarious. Anyway you said your interpretation I told you mine. No reason to go any further so, all the best to you!
PS. I wasn't arguing, I was merely stating the obvious (aka your delusions).
There is no point in arguing with dumb people like you.
 
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Since when have you ever driven a Formula 1 car under race condition and drove on the grass?
Cars with less downforce and grip have shown that you can control the car to a certain extent on dry grass.


You are mistaken, it is a fact that he rejoined unsafely and impeded Hamilton (according to regulations, they all agreed on). For the rest of your incorrect thinking about opinions and facts, I will respond in the very last paragraph here.
F1 drivers have lightning reaction times (which they btw. practice a lot), see i.e. Raikonnen vs Hamilton on pit exit Suzuka 2012, you are incorrect again.


Wrong, the situation was nowhere near the same. When Hamilton rejoined the track, the racing line was clear, nobody was coming (though somebody was behind, but they both overshot, he was not slower due to the rejoin). Hamilton had a worse acceleration out of the (overshot) corner, which allowed Ricciardo to go alongside - Hamilton left ENOUGH room (clearly visible watching the onboards), but Ricciardo started to lose car control due to the fact that he was on slicks and the area Hamilton left open was very wet, those are the facts.
You can also clearly see the distinct differences, Vettel didn't leave enough room and cut across a much faster approaching Hamilton. These are the facts, yours is a distorted fanboy view of the incident.


There is your problem, you NEVER should rejoin at full speed. But again, you are misinformed, Vettel never tried to rejoin at full speed. Additionally rejoining the track should not give you the right to stay ahead, safety should always comes first.
No need to answer on the rest of your bs, see my last paragraph here.


Omg, you are a Vettel/Ferrari fanboy (or possibly have some deficiencies). Additional to that you can not distinguish between facts and opinions - you intentionally try to sell your opinion as facts and don't understand what facts are.
Professionals said it multiple times and I repeat it here, strict to the rule book it is a violation! And the stewards interpreted it that way aswell. "it will always come in favor of Vettel" - not in this world, rightfully so.

As we are a sim community, you exactly know that is a big no no to rejoin directly back on the racing line, when the track is not clear. If you have raced a lot, you probably have experienced several crashes due to bad rejoins like this.

Hilarious. Anyway you said your interpretation I told you mine. No reason to go any further so, all the best to you!
PS. I wasn't arguing, I was merely stating the obvious.
 
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It's all because of that China 2007 :roflmao:
//conspiracy mode OFF
I just now saw the video of Ric's "overtakes", only thing that is at fault is track. They are all racing drivers and they would all do the same thing, going for any gap they can. Ric going on the right of Raikkonen is for me the same as Lewis's attack on Rosberg in Spain 2016 or Seb in Canada, but there we had grass/wall and here we had what... :(

Now one interesting question, if on every 2nd lap (2,4,6...) Bottas had taken straight through instead of taking chicane would he be close to Lewis? :roflmao:
 
That's what happens when you replace all the grass with tarmac run-off areas - drivers will simply exceed the track limits to overtake, treating it as an extension of the racing circuit. Bring back grass!

Wasn't the idea to replace the gravel pits, not the grass?

Obviously the gravel pits were a lot less attractive as a detour :D
 
Judging by Riccardo penalties from Paul Ricard, seems like F1 found a way to gain publicity by killing the racing as it happens.
Well, publicity of controversial decisions is an immediate consequence, everyone complain and speak about it, but loss of interest and apathy on mid terms is what really happens.
I didn't watch the race and I feel like I no longer care about this "sport" anymore, I no longer care if F1 is dying on its own, if these FIA fools really wants to kill competition and the thrill of the race then so be it. To hell with them. Motorsport is not only F1 and life is not only F1, I realized I can live without it.
 
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Judging by Riccardo penalties from Paul Ricard, seems like F1 found a way to gain publicity by killing the racing as it happens.
Of course! Overshoot a chicane and force another driver off track, make him lose three places and then proceed to overtake another driver by going off track.
But then if you get a penalty for that you can always argue they are "killing racing".

That Formula One is boring is no latest news to anyone. But if people are so desperate to see fights for position that they're willing to allow dirty moves to go unpunished if that means we see some battles, they should just stop following the sport altogether.

What next? Should Gabriele Piana be praised for weaving at 270km/h at the Dottinger Hohe and forcing Rene Rast into the grass because that will make the viewers more excited? Should Laurens Vanthoor (I think it was him) get away with driving at 170km/h at a 120km/h zone because racing today is too safe anyway?

"Exciting racing" is not a valid excuse for ignoring the rules, even in a sport as boring as Formula One.
 
Not like that, but when there are punishments for such little off tracks, and rejoins that are barely actually real rejoins then it is s**t. By the way, I have no idea why Riccardo didn't overtake Kimi by outside on the straight, makes little sense, ofcourse better position for turn in though. I don't comment on that one.
 
Vettel had control of the car and decided to narrow the gap more, fact.

Vettel's own words - “Where the hell am I supposed to go? If [Hamilton] had gone to the inside, he could’ve passed me.”

Source: https://jalopnik.com/final-wheel-movement-decided-controversial-penalty-that-1835372654

Credit for link : jonelsorel
Is your first sentence somehow concluded from that Vettel's statement? :O_o:

I mean "Where the hell am I supposed to go?" is talking about the moment he is recovering from that last oversteer. And second part is basically what I thought Lewis will do at the moment of incident, but that part is subjective for everyone. It really looks like that Seb's biggest fault is he saved the spin much better and faster then anyone could think off :D
 
line-in-the-sand.jpg
 

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