Ferrari and Alonso will bounce back in 2013?

[Markus Neumann]

But you see, the RB5 did have a double diffuser.
When it did not in the beginning of the year it was beaten or dominated by the Brawn GP cars,
It was after the put the DD on it that it really started becoming competitive that year.

Sure, but Vettel already won in China and RB was on the podium pretty much all the time after that. If I recall it correctly, it took them a few more races until they introduced the double diffuser. The RB5 was a good car even without the DD and the RB6-8 have all really only been evolutions of it.

Edit: Okay, I did not recall it correctly. They already introduced it at Monaco. Still the RB5 was leaps and bounds better than the RB4 and the China win was still achieved without it.

And as you said yourself, the dominance of the RBs over time with the current set of rules has gone down. The RB6 was the most dominant, then the RB7 and the RB8 only really came alive with Valencia and then the updates after Monza. The longer the rules stay the way they are, the weaker (or rather: less dominant) RB becomes.

 

[Ivan Mills]

McLaren was the fastest car in the closing stages of 2012,albeit in the hands of Hamilton, and perhaps because it was built more around him,and for his ability to switch the tyres on at will(thanks to his agressive style) .So i have a strong feeling they will be the car to beat in the early stages of 2013.Jenson Button seems a happy man these days and it wouldnt surprise me if he has a very strong WDC go next year,and Perez shouldnt be overlooked too. Newey has to have a bad year sooner or later. I dont think Ferrari would look as strong as they did this year,because tyres will not be such an issue for the teams. But they will be for Mercedes still and if they were to win even ONE race in 2013 i would be extremely surprised.
I say McLaren to be the car in 2013,providing Jenson is on the ball mentally
Red Bull to challenge up there with them
Lotus and Ferrari
Force India
Mercedes/Sauber


of course these are early predictions that are yet to be refined once testing begins

 

[Ivan Mills]

How can the RB6 be the most dominant ,when it broke down allthe time?..and it took Vettel till Abu-Dhabi to close it up

the RB7 was the most dominant Red Bull winning 12 races in '11 to 9 in '10

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

How can the RB6 be the most dominant ,when it broke down allthe time?..and it took Vettel till Abu-Dhabi to close it up

the RB7 was the most dominant Red Bull winning 12 races in '11 to 9 in '10

RB6 was Most Dominant than RB7. The Reason for that is Simple
They worked as a Stronger team made less mistakes in 11 than in 10.(Both Drivers and Team)

 

[Markus Neumann]

How can the RB6 be the most dominant ,when it broke down allthe time?..and it took Vettel till Abu-Dhabi to close it up

the RB7 was the most dominant Red Bull winning 12 races in '11 to 9 in '10

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/12/13/2010-in-stats-part-three-car-performance/
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/12/29/2011-statistics-car-performance/
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/12/03/2012-f1-car-performance/

 

[Hampus Andersson]

And as you said yourself, the dominance of the RBs over time with the current set of rules has gone down. The RB6 was the most dominant, then the RB7 and the RB8 only really came alive with Valencia and then the updates after Monza. The longer the rules stay the way they are, the weaker (or rather: less dominant) RB becomes.

You are aware that regulation changes to the exhaust was what caused RBR to struggle this year?
Pretty massive one compared to 2011 and if it had been the same as last year Red Bull would have been strong from the very start.

The rules have stayed the same overall since 2009, not a single team has managed to trump them yet.
Mclaren were close but you don´t win championships if the car can´t make it over the finish line.

In order to throw Newey off you need to make regulation changes that affect his car and philosophy.
Like engine maps, exhaust positioning, flexing front wings, etc etc.
All these changes have slowed Newey down.

If we go back in time, active suspension ban etc.

Same reason why Byrne had such a good run, regulations were quite regular and no massive changes during those years.

 

[Ivan Mills]

i respect everyones opinion here,and the RB6 might've been more dominant according to charts and papers,but statisticaly it failed to deliver ,and it doesnt matter whether it was the teams,drivers or whomevers fault.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

i respect everyones opinion here,and the RB6 might've been more dominant according to charts and papers,but statisticaly it failed to deliver ,and it doesnt matter whether it was the teams,drivers or whomevers fault.

Yeah It failed to Deliver by Driver Mistakes(More from Sebastian) and Reliability Problems. I think Reliability has stopped Vettel from 3 Victories (Bahrain, Australia, Korea) and Big Points (Monza,Spain and Gearbox Problems in one race).

 

[Ivan Mills]

and Reliability Problems. I think Reliability has stopped Vettel from 3 Victories (Bahrain, Australia, Korea) and Big Points (Monza,Spain and Gearbox Problems in one race).

there you go...so the RB7 was a more complete car

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

there you go...so the RB7 was a more complete car

Yep I agree with your Point Ivan but the Position he was when he retire was also important in this Conditions. If the RB6 was like RB7 then Alonso don't need to fight in Abudhabi 2010. the WDC will be wrapped up by Japan or Korea

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

You are aware that regulation changes to the exhaust was what caused RBR to struggle this year?
Pretty massive one compared to 2011 and if it had been the same as last year Red Bull would have been strong from the very start.

The rules have stayed the same overall since 2009, not a single team has managed to trump them yet.
Mclaren were close but you don´t win championships if the car can´t make it over the finish line.

In order to throw Newey off you need to make regulation changes that affect his car and philosophy.
Like engine maps, exhaust positioning, flexing front wings, etc etc.
All these changes have slowed Newey down.

If we go back in time, active suspension ban etc.

Same reason why Byrne had such a good run, regulations were quite regular and no massive changes during those years.

I think Newey can adjust the Engine Map like Germany 2012 if he needs it again according to the Rule Change

 

[Ivan Mills]

If the RB6 was like RB7 then Alonso don't need to fight in Abudhabi 2010. the WDC will be wrapped up by Japan or Korea

exactly Kartik

 

[Hampus Andersson]

i respect everyones opinion here,and the RB6 might've been more dominant according to charts and papers,but statisticaly it failed to deliver ,and it doesnt matter whether it was the teams,drivers or whomevers fault.

I´m actually with you, to me the RB7 was the creme de la creme from Newey, a true masterpiece and very innovative with the exhaust setup.

 

[Shivayernena]

Now as almost same rules are regulated for next season i think RB and MClaren will solve thier Reliability issues and Chanllenge Ferrari even more than in 2012. As we cant expect so much from ferrari in this less period of time its going to be most difficult for NANDO to dominate 2013 like this year do. But i think NANDO will always give his best to be in top and that is too irrespective of car. So i had still hopes on NANDO. He will be definitely finish 2013 in 2nd even he can win it too.
The only reason i can tell u why and show u how is "He proved this year that Its not completely about car to be at TOP which VETTEL r HAMILTON cant prove it". They were in top when car is Superb and struggled when its not. But VETTEL far better to some extent than other.

 

[Carlos Luna]

I don't see Ferrari struggling as much next year as they did this year. They had a fairly competitive car in race pace (obviously not as good in quali) and with the rules essentially staying the same for next year they have a better understanding on what and what not to do. The restriction of DRS use to the DRS zone in practice and quali will certainly help bridge the gap to the other teams as well.