Paul Jeffrey
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This thread is for the general discussion of the item Fanatec Podium Wheelbase DD2 Direct Drive Wheelbase. Please add to the discussion here.
Fanatec Podium Wheelbase DD2
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
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I'm glad somebody mentioned the DD1 at last, it is somewhat cheaper than the DD2, although you have to pay €100 extra for the Emergency Stop button, which I find a bit stingy. For €1200 you'd think they could supply one with it.
I'm glad now I saved a bit of money by buying the DD1, I'd never use the extra 5 Nm anyway, the DD1 with it's "only" 20 Nm is well capable of tearing your arms off, I can't imagine driving it at anywhere near 100%, at least for any length of time.
And the integration into the Fanatec Eco System is an advantage that's not to be underestimated, if you have Fanatec pedals, shifter and handbrake: since I bought the DD1 I only need 1 USB port and one mains connection for all my hardware.
I havn't had a moments trouble over the last four years or so with my Fanatec gear, hopefully that will remain so.
And, by the way, I paid for all of my stuff, I have no connection to Fanatec
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TedBrosby-
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I'm glad somebody mentioned the DD1 at last, it is somewhat cheaper than the DD2, although you have to pay €100 extra for the Emergency Stop button, which I find a bit stingy. For €1200 you'd think they could supply one with it.
I'm glad now I saved a bit of money by buying the DD1, I'd never use the extra 5 Nm anyway, the DD1 with it's "only" 20 Nm is well capable of tearing your arms off, I can't imagine driving it at anywhere near 100%, at least for any length of time.
And the integration into the Fanatec Eco System is an advantage that's not to be underestimated, if you have Fanatec pedals, shifter and handbrake: since I bought the DD1 I only need 1 USB port and one mains connection for all my hardware.
I havn't had a moments trouble over the last four years or so with my Fanatec gear, hopefully that will remain so.
And, by the way, I paid for all of my stuff, I have no connection to Fanatec
You wouldn't want to use more than 15 Nm on either DD1/DD2 anyway due to the slightly harsh outrunner servo motor. DD1/DD2 is very good for 8 ~ 12 Nm of torque where the sudden torque ramp up by the larger array of static magnets won't tear your arms off.
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TedBrosby-
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I just read through all 14 painful pages of that thread and here's what I can tell you:Read the driver release pages, a lot of unhappy people.. and you only find these if you start digging around after wondering why you wheel is flaky.
these bugs have been in the ecosystem forever, and the reply is always "well, dont use it", beyond the ITM issues, if you ever get the "notchy" feel like you are using a knackered logitech g25, do the recommendation by manufacturer to simply delete wheel calibration data aswell, the anger is not about the quality, its about the fact that the manufacturer keeps farting out drivers that dont fix things or add value, and the last half dozen drivers simply have footnotes to the tune of "ya, we know its broken, deal with it"
Fanatec Driver 381 Release Candidate for CSL, CSW and Podium Bases (all wheels)
Driver v381 changelog since v380forum.fanatec.com
95% of the complaints are either valid (about ITM causing FFB jolts) or are user errors (PEBKAC) because people didn't follow directions correctly or didn't know about some aspects of updating firmware and how you have to reset some settings/start some things over again.
One person was running 2 Nm of torque and less than 100% force feedback intensity in their sim and complaining that they couldn't feel anything.
Fanatec is a larger consumer brand. So they have a lot of couch gamers who want "the best" and buy DD1/DD2 but don't know a lot about tuning or configuring settings. They sell way more direct drive wheels directly to consumers than any other DD brand. It's a given that they'll have more "complaints".
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I bought the DD2 in December 2018, when we all thought we would get them before April 2019. That being said, it took a while for me to figure out why people thought direct drive was such a big deal. I came from the Clubsport V2.5 world. What the DD wheel showed me was that I had no feel for driving. I was totally ignoring what the wheels I had before were telling me and couldn't figure out why I couldn't seem to be consistent. Now I turn lap after lap without issues. I looked at buying the DD1, but thought, hell why not the DD2. One thing that almost stopped me from buying either one was the constant comments on how you need a strong rig and you couldn't attach it to a desk. Wrong. I have mine on the desk with the Fanatec bracket and it is rock solid.
The one problem I had with my DD2 was that the ring used to tighten down the steering wheel went wonky. I sent the base back and they got me a replacement without any delay. Of course, this was pre-Covid.
The one problem I had with my DD2 was that the ring used to tighten down the steering wheel went wonky. I sent the base back and they got me a replacement without any delay. Of course, this was pre-Covid.
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I am the same as you, no failing parts, no issues with drivers, or any other problem, and I have had mine for over a year and a half. It will be two years in May. I use mine almost daily.
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That's because not everyone has problems with Fanatecs gear! I've run every single "beta" driver up to the current offering and never once had a jolt, pop, etc. etc. My DD2 has been nothing but 100% wonderful! Same goes for the DD1 I owned, The multiple V2.5s (on again off again racing for awhile), the V2, the V1! I've owned just about all of their high end offerings and never once had a single issue as with much of the rest of the Fanatec owners. Fanatec is a massive market leader and sell millions of bases and wheels. Its mostly the people who've had issues that come on forums and social media and vent their frustrations, in which they have every right to! But the majority of owners aren't writing pissed of messages on forums because their enjoying their wheel bases problem free.
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I did have a few issues with my Fanatec gear.
- Connectors to steering wheel in the V2.5 wheel base
- H-shifter gave faulty responses (wrong gears)
Each of these issues were fixed by Fanatec in a reasonable time and free of charge. Their support sometimes takes 2 days to respond, but they always came through with a solution.
Now DD1 for about a year - love it; and apart from trying out some wonky beta drivers, the latest official driver proved stable for my setup.
- Connectors to steering wheel in the V2.5 wheel base
- H-shifter gave faulty responses (wrong gears)
Each of these issues were fixed by Fanatec in a reasonable time and free of charge. Their support sometimes takes 2 days to respond, but they always came through with a solution.
Now DD1 for about a year - love it; and apart from trying out some wonky beta drivers, the latest official driver proved stable for my setup.
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I don't get your point with bringing up the drivers forum. Ofc people will only comment if they have problems with the driver to give feedback and most of the time to get help!Read the driver release pages, a lot of unhappy people.. and you only find these if you start digging around after wondering why you wheel is flaky.
these bugs have been in the ecosystem forever, and the reply is always "well, dont use it", beyond the ITM issues, if you ever get the "notchy" feel like you are using a knackered logitech g25, do the recommendation by manufacturer to simply delete wheel calibration data aswell, the anger is not about the quality, its about the fact that the manufacturer keeps farting out drivers that dont fix things or add value, and the last half dozen drivers simply have footnotes to the tune of "ya, we know its broken, deal with it"
Fanatec Driver 381 Release Candidate for CSL, CSW and Podium Bases (all wheels)
Driver v381 changelog since v380
And that's a fact in general, not only with Fanatec.
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Yeah, it's sad that you have to specifically state that something is sarcastic, otherwise nobody sees the joke these days. The fine art of sarcasm seems to have died out with the new millennium generation, which is a pity, as it was always one of my favourite forms of humour ( no sarcasm intended
)
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Source? Maybe we can get Fanatec to review RD online racing events somewhere that all these wheelbase users will see it?
Thanks for this. I would normally type "Ha ha", but this time I really did laugh out loud.
PS For sarcasm, see above.
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The noting in "known issues" of the jolting ITM has been in the last 4 releases, but the actual issue has been known since its launch, just that in last four releases they decided to let us know they know about it.. and let us know the fix is to just not use it.. nothing to do with the forum replies.
Imagine buying a car and they tell you "we know reverse gear does not work, just dont reverse and you will be fine". The ITM was a selling point on these devices in the insane marketing.. to date useful only for looking at a fanatec logo.
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While I agree that the jolts are THE problem atm, I hardly disagree they were there since the DDs launched. I own my DD1 since launch, and the jolts started with the introduction of the first performance update with driver 352, prior to this there were no jolts.
And your comparison is a bit exaggerated imo. No1 would buy a carr without reverse gear as it wouldn't work properly. The DD however, does work properly, no issues.
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But perhaps they should realize that they're selling to the general public and not just enthousiasts.
I've always found it a bit odd that when you buy some of their new products, you have to use the beta (read: software that is not in a release state) software and/or do firmware updates (which can brick the device.
I imagine this might reduce the amount of negative feedback they're receiving.
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TedBrosby-
Premium
You're making a lot of huge assumptions.
Some people don't care about the ITM or display. I know I don't. I race in VR so I don't look at my wheelbase.
For me a selling point of the DD1/DD2 is that you can use the Fanatec range of wheels without having to hope Simon can hack a USB conversion (we have no guarantees he can hack the McLaren V2), you don't have to buy a separate Quick Release, you can use a single USB cord which is a huge advantage since accessories/VR takes up a lot of ports and literally every single USB device we use in sim racing has poorly developed USB power management and asks you to connect directly to the motherboard because they didn't write energy saver drivers correctly. And another huge selling point was console compatibility.
I chose the SC2 Pro, but to say that it's better than the Fanatec in every way is a huge exaggeration. I had to sacrifice affordable QR (SQR costs me 55 euro for every wheel I buy, plus shipping and customs, ends up being almost 80 euro EACH wheel and people say it's not even as good as Q1R or XeroPlay...), I had to sacrifice 100% console compatibility (and I like console racers, just because I play online iRacing only doesn't mean I can't enjoy Gran Turismo), I had to sacrifice having more than 28 inputs/analog clutches on WIRELESS wheels (I know you can use the USB cube formula Pro or other wheels with clutches that have USB cable, but if you're gonna use a USB cable anyway, wireless on SC2 isn't an advantage anymore), I also sacrificed the RPM lights/pit limiter indicators/tuning menu from a wireless wheel and sacrificed the ability to get local support (Fanatec has a support center in Japan, but for Simucube I would have to ship it to Finland on my own money and wait weeks for it to come back).
And for reference, I've sent a product to Fanatec for support. They responded fast, I got the product back in less than 10 days and the replacement was perfect.
It's a little bit presumptuous of you to speak for other people and say what we consider to be "selling points". The OLED display is kind of cool I guess, but I wouldn't ever look at it since I drive in VR. And even if I drove with my monitor as display, I wouldn't care about telemetry data unless I'm doing a tuning session to find settings. And if that's the case, a jolt here and there is just a bug I'll have to survive until my tuning session is done and once I've found settings I'm happy with, I'll turn off ITM and won't have jolts when the real racing starts.
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The PC gaming industry is loosing contact with reality as of late. 1500€ For a glorified brushless motor glued to an encoder is crazy, and even more crazy that for that price you don't even have the cheapest of the cheapest of the wheels included in the pack. You have to buy the 1500€ base + a steering wheel + shift paddles + a aluminium profile rig + a set of pedals + a pedal mounting plate for the aluminium rig...
The industry is loosing contact with reality, most of the people can't afford nor justify to spend 600 to 1500€ in a graphics card every 3 years, nor 600 to 1200 in a processor + 150 to 300 for a motherboard, and 100 to 150 for ram modules every 4 years, and simracing hardware is following the same route. Back when logitech launched the g25 it was the most expensive comertial hardware in that era and it was just 300€, now we are talking about a base that is useless by itself for the totally reasonable price of 1500€. The simracing hobbie is starting to become unafordable and way too exclusive.
Nowadays it seems that either you have a g27 or one of the thrustmaster glorified and unreliable toys or a DD1 + one of their very expensive steering wheels + Heusinkveld pedals + aluminium frame, this hobby is becoming as absurd as the photography one, full of people with either entry 300€ body cameras or 1500 to 3000€ full frame body cameras with nothing in between.
The industry is milking us real good, I've been wanting to upgrade from my g25 with DIY pedals and DIY controller for a long time. But after researching all the available options I see the daunting prices of new hardware and even if I technically can afford the purchase making an effort, I can't justify to myself to spend 300€ in what it is basically a facelift G25. Or go to the next step of 500 to 600€ that feel like a waste in what it feels like a mostly plastic glorified toy that seems to be unreliable, or then go crazy and spend a similar amount of money of a 7 years old used car in a DD1 rig with all the usual aditional hardware.
The industry is loosing contact with reality, most of the people can't afford nor justify to spend 600 to 1500€ in a graphics card every 3 years, nor 600 to 1200 in a processor + 150 to 300 for a motherboard, and 100 to 150 for ram modules every 4 years, and simracing hardware is following the same route. Back when logitech launched the g25 it was the most expensive comertial hardware in that era and it was just 300€, now we are talking about a base that is useless by itself for the totally reasonable price of 1500€. The simracing hobbie is starting to become unafordable and way too exclusive.
Nowadays it seems that either you have a g27 or one of the thrustmaster glorified and unreliable toys or a DD1 + one of their very expensive steering wheels + Heusinkveld pedals + aluminium frame, this hobby is becoming as absurd as the photography one, full of people with either entry 300€ body cameras or 1500 to 3000€ full frame body cameras with nothing in between.
The industry is milking us real good, I've been wanting to upgrade from my g25 with DIY pedals and DIY controller for a long time. But after researching all the available options I see the daunting prices of new hardware and even if I technically can afford the purchase making an effort, I can't justify to myself to spend 300€ in what it is basically a facelift G25. Or go to the next step of 500 to 600€ that feel like a waste in what it feels like a mostly plastic glorified toy that seems to be unreliable, or then go crazy and spend a similar amount of money of a 7 years old used car in a DD1 rig with all the usual aditional hardware.
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TedBrosby-
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I agree with you, but the community voted with its wallet.
I probably shouldn't have bought the SC2 Pro + wireless button plate. It was around 1700/1800 euros. If I would've "voted with my wallet" and got a Simagic M10 GT4 bundle, it would've been my way of saying "hey, I prefer to sacrifice brushless servo and 15 Nm of torque because $1000 with an included wheel is a better deal to me".
What's really sad is that TM haven't released a replacement to the T300RS. It's been available for over 6 years. The G923 is basically a G25. The aesthetics have changed but the internals are basically the same for over 10 years.
Everything under the CSL is just a numbed, dull sense of FFB. And since no one is challenging Fanatec in that price area, and everyone just buys the TM/Logitech anyway, no one is innovating.
Logitech, TM or Fanatec have the power to shake things up. Fanatec could've made the DD1 $1000 with an included wheel. It would've still been a huge profit for them, would've forced Simucube and other makers to lower their prices. Instead they're definitely making a huge profit off the DD1. I think it's a nice piece of hardware, but it's definitely super expensive.
IMO, something between 12 and 15 Nm of torque, no OLED screen, bundled with a ClubSport converted McLaren GT3 for $999.
And Logitech should join the belt driven ecosystem. If they made a belt driven wheel with around 5 Nm of torque for $499 with pedals, we would have a competition. The G923 is NOT worth $399. If you have to pay $399 for that notchy geared junk, you'd be better off paying an extra $170 for the CSL starter kit.
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