F1 skins removed from AMS.

[gamer19]

with this mods deleting?

I mean.. I know what it's been writen but how come some mods have been deleted and some not, they even intended for very same game/car (Automobilista V10 cars) ?!
My BAR is deleted, some other and these, for an example, are not:
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ams-v10-arrows-asiatech-2001-a22.9487/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ams-scuderia-ferrari-v10-2002.9384/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/jaguar-formula-v10.9237/
even mine,
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ams-v10-new-steering-wheel-by-shnala.9407/
which has F1 logo as a main feature!??

Seems to me that someone has google "F1" and if you're not typing "F1" into your mod (title), it stays. I know, dumb, but it look it's like that.
Can I get an explanation, please?
I, like many others, busting my balls about that BAR too long to be left without that. Should I upload another ....version, with proper ....title?
Or you can't say that.

 

[Andy_J]

To me it's like this; chap buys a nice sports car for his own use on the road. Decides to paint it in F1 replica colours (New renault for example.) Would it be OK for FOM Ltd to chase him down and tell him to remove his paint job? What about all the Moto GP replica bikes on the road? Many custom painted to match their hero's. Should Moto GP Ltd go chasing these people? I know websites like this are only covering their asses but we need a dose of common sense sometimes don't we?

 

[MoerasGrizzly]

My mum always told me not to use the F word, I wouldn't listen to her.
I only uploaded real names season 2002, I guess the team logos weren't legal

That's a bit weird, Reiza has Rubens Barichello ingame as a driver, for instance.

 

[Brandon Wright]

To me it's like this; chap buys a nice sports car for his own use on the road. Decides to paint it in F1 replica colours (New renault for example.) Would it be OK for FOM Ltd to chase him down and tell him to remove his paint job? What about all the Moto GP replica bikes on the road? Many custom painted to match their hero's. Should Moto GP Ltd go chasing these people? I know websites like this are only covering their asses but we need a dose of common sense sometimes don't we?

This touches on that topic, though it's kind of the other way around.
http://jalopnik.com/ferrari-sent-deadmau5-a-cease-and-desist-about-his-purr-1627640534

The crux of Deadmau story is that Ferrari (and any other brand) have a right to protect their image (and how people use their image), whether we like it/agree with how they do it or not. This case was a bit Orwellian, but they are within their rights in the eyes of the law. Ferrari is known for even putting limitations on owners of their cars. I saw a piece on a guy who bought one of their old F1 cars and it was written in the contract that Ferrari gets to buy it back if the guy decides to sell it. When it comes to the FXX (track version of the Enzo) they will gladly sell it to you but you aren't allowed to take it home and can only drive it at Ferrari approved track days.

If you watch the new Inside Sim Racing interview with J-F Chardon he talks about how the Bentley GT3 is currently being reviewed by Bentley to insure all the body angles and decal placements are correct before they will approve its release. So even though S3S have the "rights" to the car they still aren't allowed to release it until Bentley declares that every small detail (including the size of logos and even the shade of green) is to their satisfaction. It's basically "Yes, you can use our image/likeness but only if we approve of how it's represented". Obviously with mods/skins they don't get a chance to sign off on the appearance, and thus have the right to request its removal.

When it comes to sim racing skins I agree that this all seems a bit childish on the surface, but I understand the logic and reasoning behind why companies make the claims and why RD complies with them. Doesn't mean I like it, but unfortunately that's the way it has to be.

 

[Andy_J]

The Purrari saga is just pathetic.

 

[Gringo]

But they're being hosted/distributed on a "for profit" website (we've all heard the stories of Bram's mansion in Monaco! ). Like it or not the rights holder has every right to protect their IP

You couldn't be happier then. Ya for F0 in the valiant defense of their brand!. F'n freeloader fans and the art they produced are in the bin. Haha.

 

[kedy89]

Just got reminded that the same **** happened around 2 years ago already...
http://www.virtualr.net/no-more-formula-one-modding-content-on-virtualr

G1 clearly knows how to get new fans...

 

[Brandon Wright]

The Purrari saga is just pathetic.

I don't disagree. But it's within their legal rights (damn lawyers).

You couldn't be happier then. Ya for F0 in the valiant defense of their brand!. F'n freeloader fans and the art they produced are in the bin. Haha.

Huh? I didn't say I support or agree with any of this, just gave examples of why it is the way it is. I'm not happy about it, but I understand why it is. Perhaps that's because I live in Murica where everybody sues people for anything and everything. We can't say "G'day ma'am" to a lady without fear of being rung up on sexual harassment charges.

 

[Will Mazeo]

Maybe would help if instead of "premium" RD system was called "donation"?

 

[Brandon Wright]

Maybe would help if instead of "premium" RD system was called "donation"?

I would presume that since RD generates revenue from ads, this wouldn't make a difference. I could be wrong though, it's all a big gray area and can vary from company to company and region to region.

 

[alexSchmurtz]

One thing to consider also is that they sell licenses for making games (EA), and it must be pretty expensive. So they are also trying to protect that, even if you are not charging money for your skins… Not trying to give them excuses of course.
Let's face it: skinning and modding are mostly outlaws: we only have a license to use softwares, they do not belong to us, we are not supposed to modify them. We also do not own any rights to the shapes that modders reproduce nor the logos we put on skins… That's why while I understand that some people start to charge money for their mods and skins, I find it dangerous in the long term and might kill those activities...
Hopefully this incident will settle down, and we will continue below the radars…

 

[23racer]

I think most skins that were removed as a whole from RD were 2016 and even 2015 liveries. Makes sense considering Codemasters have the F1 licence and they want people buying the new game with this years cars, liveries and likeness'.

I don't understand however how they can claim liveries from 10+ years ago. Because as far as I know cars after even 2 years are sold off to private collectors, so wouldn't by law they would be property of their new owners? Technically they couldn't remove a Tyrrell 026 because the car isn't current, the team no longer exists under that name, the car in game is not the actual 026 and Paul Stoddart owns the cars currently?

 

[zAmboni]

Kinda made some news

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/...dered-to-take-down-unlicensed-formula-1-mods/

 

[gamer19]

That's a bit weird, Reiza has Rubens Barichello ingame as a driver, for instance.

You're right.
So let's not be surprised if F1demands from Reiza studios that they... hand over the right over Rubens himself.
That's how stupid this all can turns out. He used to be part of our racing series so you can't use his name in your product. What? He's a person? So what? It's all the same. We're F1 resistance is futile.

I think most skins that were removed as a whole from RD were 2016 and even 2015 liveries. Makes sense considering Codemasters have the F1 licence and they want people buying the new game with this years cars, liveries and likeness'.
I don't understand however how they can claim liveries from 10+ years ago. Because as far as I know cars after even 2 years are sold off to private collectors, so wouldn't by law they would be property of their new owners? Technically they couldn't remove a Tyrrell 026 because the car isn't current, the team no longer exists under that name, the car in game is not the actual 026 and Paul Stoddart owns the cars currently?

+1
Another good point.
And in close connection with post I qoute above.

 

[Brandon Wright]

That's a bit weird, Reiza has Rubens Barichello ingame as a driver, for instance.

You're right.
So let's not be surprised if F1demands from Reiza studios that they... hand over the right over Rubens himself.
That's how stupid this all can turns out. He used to be part of our racing series so you can't use his name in your product. What? He's a person? So what? It's all the same. We're F1 resistance is futile.

Rubens is in the game because he has been participating in the Brazilian Stock Car series, and Reiza has the rights to that series and the use of its drivers names.

I think a big point is being missed here. If people want to make F1 skins for their own private use they can do that. It's when you start distributing them to the public, especially on a website that generates revenue, that you get in trouble. This applies to any un-licensed mod/car/track/livery that uses the likeness/name of a real car/track/livery without permission. Most of them slip through the cracks because a lot of companies either aren't too bothered by it or have decided it's not worth the effort to put an end to it. F1 has apparently decided to take the opposite approach and crack down on it wherever possible, which they're known to do and have the right to do.

 

[gamer19]

You too miss the point.
I know why Rubens is here.
But like I said, and it was a joke, he has been in F1 too, so... maybe....

Also... I find that term "only for personal use" quite stupid.
What's that? Should they forbid that, too? They 'll bump into my house and delete every skin I made FOR MYSELF?
I mean... how's that makes them a good guys? Who's just doing their jobs? "It's ok for personal use", oh c'mon... please...
And if this exchange of skins and similar stuff should be forbidden, then why do we have "Racedepartment" on the first place?
Point is - no other racing series is so strict about this.
They should loosen up a bit. We're no causing them to lose the profit. At all.
In fact... I think this only serves for more popularity of their racing series.
So, we work for free and they get the profit.
But you know what? It's ok with us, just leave us be.
But I guess they won't. At least not until they hire some other, less greedy, people.

 

[Brandon Wright]

You too miss the point.
I know why Rubens is here.
But like I said, and it was a joke, he has been in F1 too, so... maybe....

Also... I find that term "only for personal use" quite stupid.
What's that? Should they forbid that, too? They 'll bump into my house and delete every skin I made FOR MYSELF?
I mean... how's that makes them a good guys? Who's just doing their jobs? "It's ok for personal use", oh c'mon... please...
And if this exchange of skins and similar stuff should be forbidden, then why do we have "Racedepartment" on the first place?
Point is - no other racing series is so strict about this.
They should loosen up a bit. We're no causing them to lose the profit. At all.
In fact... I think this only serves for more popularity of their racing series.
So, we work for free and they get the profit.
But you know what? It's ok with us, just leave us be.
But I guess they won't. At least not until they hire some other, less greedy, people.

The answers to all this can be found in basic copyright laws. You can not use or disseminate a brand name/image without express consent of the rights holder. Some companies/series choose to enforce them, some don't. They're not interested in being good guys, they're interested in protecting the integrity of their brand. If you make your own skin and don't distribute it they won't know and you can use it all you like. Once you choose to distribute it to the public you've opened the door for them to come after you. Just like a major league baseball game, you're free to have your mates over to watch it in your home, but once you start broadcasting it to the internet you're in trouble. In theory, RD shouldn't be allowing stuff with copyrighted images to be posted at all, but they allow it until a rights holder issues a complaint. If no complaint is issued then it slides under the radar (that doesn't make it legal though).

FOM will not loosen up on this, they own one of the biggest sporting brands in the world and will do everything within their power to protect it (as is their right). It's not always about profit, it's about protecting their image/brand, and making sure that brand/image isn't represented in a way they don't approve of. But profit is also a factor, because why would anyone buy a crap Codemasters F1 game when they can just use free F1 skins in a proper sim like AMS, rF2 or AC? So yes, this could cause them a loss of profit.

I somehow doubt that if you were the owner of one of the most recognizable brands in the world you would be ok with anyone and everyone replicating your image to varying quality standards and distributing it across the internet to whoever wants it.

 

[gamer19]

Ok, I won't say that you aren't right about many things you've said.
But like 23racer said... they have been, at least in this case and that's why this topic is even started (by me btw), over ten years old. 14 to be precise. How is that threatening to their latest (official) game, it's beyond me...

 

[Brandon Wright]

Ok, I won't say that you aren't right about many things you've said.
But like 23racer said... they have been, at least in this case and that's why this topic is even started (by me btw), over ten years old. 14 to be precise. How is that threatening to their latest (official) game, it's beyond me...

In that instance there probably isn't a threat to their latest games, unless they decide to include some of that classic content in upcoming patches/titles. But that's only one aspect of it. The history of F1 is as important to the brand as the current cars/liveries/games (probably even more important/valuable if things keep going the way they are with that sport) and it's about protecting the integrity/image of that history. In most cases that wouldn't matter, but F1's history is well known, respected, desired, and FOM can be very Draconian about protecting anything and everything associated with their brand.

I think it's one of those "all or nothing" scenarios, if they say "ok, you can make skins for the 60's cars, but that's all" some people will not pay attention to the fine print and think "well, if those are ok then the 70's liveries should be ok too so I'll make some of those", and before you know it people think they can just use whatever intellectual property they want for free and without permission. Once you've opened Pandora's box.........so they just choose to keep the box locked up and use the big whip on anyone who manages to break in.

To be clear, I'm in no way trying to argue with you or anyone else here. I just happen to know a little bit about copyright laws (just enough to be dangerous) and also a bit about how Draconian FOM can be when it comes to protecting their intellectual property, so I'm just trying to share what I know to help people understand the reasoning behind all this. Yes, it does seem to create a bit of a double-standard with some stuff being allowed and some stuff being removed which causes confusion and frustration, but that's mainly because different companies/brands choose to enforce things differently and many don't bother with our little sim hobby. I would think that any user-created cars/tracks/skins hosted here that use copyrighted images could be removed if the IP owner filed a complaint, so we should be happy that we get away with as much as we do.

 

[gamer19]

I know one thind for sure... there will be some more work for them.

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/f1-2014-graphics-overhaul-v-1-2-patch.9306/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/f1-2016-season-mod.9569/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/f1-2016-force-india-azerbaijan.9548/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downl...-steering-wheel-modification-by-mmpaw37.9495/

People didn't learn from our, pioneers, mistakes.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I know one thind for sure... there will be some more work for them.

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/f1-2014-graphics-overhaul-v-1-2-patch.9306/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/f1-2016-season-mod.9569/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/f1-2016-force-india-azerbaijan.9548/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downl...-steering-wheel-modification-by-mmpaw37.9495/

People didn't learn from our, pioneers, mistakes.

Yep! Unfortunately technology probably makes it pretty easy for them to hunt this stuff down. If you've ever seen how fast FOM gets videos yanked from YouTube (sometimes within an hour or two) you know they put some resources into this. I think most companies don't care as long as your not profiting or making them look bad, but this is Bernie we're talking about.