Authorised Vendor DK Sigma Motion System | USA Made
- Thread starter SigmaMotion
- Start date
We have had a few requests for this title now. Will be adding it soon to our weighted list. ;-) Thanks.
Anodized Black vs. Tumbled Silver
DK4X Integrated. Can you guys guess the car and chassis?
Reboot Racing Edmonton Canada
Sorry for the late reply, somehow missed this!@Peter,
Once again, thank you for the new update! This is a great evolution!The suspensions (Heave) work extremely well! I just love it!
Wait for Roll 2.0... should be proper as well, right now it saturates at the limits and the new version will definitely have more feel in the corners.
The global intensity slider has been removed because its really just heave intensity and roll intensity. We are actually working to simplify the UI all over again, we never wanted to make the UI so complicated but go ahead of ourselves. So slap on the wrists, a squirt of water and we are going to have a redesign shortly. Please bare with us a just a little longer. Aiming for next week!
Also I am rediscovering tracks with this new Heave 2.0 upgrade. Wow, some tracks are totally different. The two I have tried so far that really stand out are Hell RX and Summit in iRacing. Just a lot more undulations and changes in the surface and texture. Also heave is significantly improved when on larger inclinations. This should be better for rally and also for dirt ovals.@Peter,
Once again, thank you for the new update! This is a great evolution!
No stress Peter, it’s okay if you don’t respond to messages quickly.
I haven't yet tested the Rally or a circuit like Daytona International Speedway, but I am REDISCOVERING the best circuit in the world; the Nordschleife (on rFactor 2) and it's PHENOMENAL!!! I'll stay tuned for the next update, but be careful Peter, don't undo what has just been done, because it's EXCELLENT. Don't let go!
I haven't yet tested the Rally or a circuit like Daytona International Speedway, but I am REDISCOVERING the best circuit in the world; the Nordschleife (on rFactor 2) and it's PHENOMENAL!!! I'll stay tuned for the next update, but be careful Peter, don't undo what has just been done, because it's EXCELLENT. Don't let go!
Extended Brackets
now in [ RED ]
now in [ RED ]
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DK6 also available in [ RED ]
OK we found a bug in our latest Heave 2.0, a phantom heave that would happen occasionally due to some algorithmic wizardry on the back end.
Fixing this just now and just AIR DROPPED the latest update! Its sublime, the software will auto-update on launch, version 3.3.167.2. This latest version has one tuning that works for all genres - road racing, rally, dirt, flight, etc.. No need to fiddle with countless sliders anymore, it's back to basics with simplicity. Feels fantastic and almost didn't get off our test sim here... Give it a go @R3dF0x
If you are at the New York Autoshow this week. Stop by the Volkswagen booth. ;-)
Black DK2+ incoming.
New to Sigma thread coming from 4 years on PT Actuators. I just ordered DK2+ (Saturday in Australia) and super excited for delivery in 2 weeks. So I was re-watching Will from Boosted Media on YT reviewed DK2 a year ago then Qubic QS-220 10 months ago. He made a comment in the QS220 video saying how fast & extremely ultra responsive that motion system is. But then he referenced both DBox & DK2 saying he noticed both felt disconnected when he turned the settings up past a certain point while the QS220 was very sharp & super responsive. My question, is his observation valid and is that actually now redundant as it has been solved either by, advances in the Sigma control software or in the DK2+ by virtue of its stronger motor with more torque. It is important to me because makes me wonder if I should upgrade my order to the DK6 ? Or is it that maybe Will has driven so many different motion systems that he is being overly critical or just plain wrong ? If the speed of the actuators (200mm/sec vs 400+ mm/sec) is not the only factor that enhances the Jerk (?) or as Will describes, super ultra crisp response, then what might be missing that apparently he does not feel from DK2 ? could it be the shorter throw or stroke of 50mm vs Qubic 100mm ? And would DK6 at 150mm trounce QS-220 in that area because it has expanded motion layers ? Sorry for long first questions here but this is an important consideration for a new buyer/user like me. Or am I reading too much into all of it ? I am guilty of sometimes over thinking things. Thanks
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Hey Blanes great question. I will reply in short and in full. Also welcome to the Sigma family. ;-)
I think the community here would love your feedback once you get your system setup and running. It will be an great unbiased review from someone who actually has purchased the product or put his money where his mouth is. Secondly we almost always recommend DK2 or DK2+ initially to customer, specially those who did not have a motion system before. Most of our algorithms were tuned for DK2/2+ to begin with and with our Dynamic Scaling Algorithm, we believe it feels great. I would stick with your original choice, although we obviously make less margin on the lower priced products. ;-)
We also always offer an upgrade path for customers, so if a year or two or 10 from now you choose to upgrade, you can always do so. The link for that is here. [ hint: this is a great way to reset your system warranty as well :-P ] But in short we get customers saying that the DK2 at full settings is way too much power and we get other saying that its not enough. Meeting 'personal preferences' and then explaining them is very difficult, hence why we need better standards or objective empirical measurements in the space. My opinion.
The Qubic system is a great company and they have been around for a while now. The QS-220 is a great system and its hard to compare for me or anyone else, at least objectively. I don't think Will is wrong in his subjective analysis but he like other reviewers know that its a VERY difficult thing to define. It's actually one gripe about this industry that we at Sigma we have as well. We see so many half-truths or surface level discussions or blatant marketing gimmicks that we just think ultimately confuse people or make them choose brand in-groups to justify their purchase. (hope that make sense) And I know this is a bold statement but people are looking for the truth and its really hard to quantify that in 1-2 minute Instagram reel/story, so the fastest way to feel comfortable is to make easy to understand claims about a product you are selling. Truth is each product is different and better for different things and ultimately you just need to commit and compare (which is hard without going to sim centers or other places that have multiple units to try). So, that being said, I think its hard to quantify 'sharp and super responsive', no doubt the system is, but how is it compared to other turn key systems? Sigma is thinking of creating a free program, that will allow all users to compare (objectively) the performance of their system, luckily we already use such tools internally and even our Teknic motors have software which can objectively measure and report back accuracy and performance, old example here:
But this would involve a phone or other measuring device with an IMU of sorts that would tie in back to the software. We already have a similar feature in our software that reports on the data quality coming into our control (Motion fps) and our controllers ability to process it (convert).
So the DK2 is an absolute blast and if you go into our Discord you will see that many people think its more than powerful enough. At $5k we think its an amazing product and one we are proud of as our goal at Sigma was always to make great products affordable to more people. We think the DK2 meets all those compromises quite well and is prices accordingly. It's also the only system that we know of on the market with completely CNC body and brackets (which is better for haptics/vibrations transfer), with proper American motors (more expensive but much more better performing we found, fun test here:
that can be objectively measured. However the DK2+ as best described by one of our friends/drivers Kenton Koch has just more attitude, the larger motor has more torque and is just better at following the target positions vs. the DK2. It's most noticeable on heavier chassis with more load or more demanding applications like Rally or Dirt or Trophy Trucks too.
So Will is not wrong or has a bias, and he will be reviewing our DK2+ shortly. But its a multi factorial evaluation. #1 great motion starts with great telemetry (garbage in and garbage out as they say in computer science), without great telemetry or low Hz you are just filling in the missing data points with things like effects which some people call haptics rather than staying true to the signal. #2 there is a mechanical aspect to sharpness and responsiveness, such as ball screw pitch, friction, etc... #3 there is an electronic aspect as well, quality of the motor, electrical architecture etc. and finally there is the #4 Software or the algorithmic reconstruction of the signal, where we like to focus lots of our time and energy, for example such as the new Heave 2.0 release which took us 7 months to complete, 3 of those months which we completely had to throw away and start from scratch.
So you are not reading too much into this, you are going by the metrics provided but it is important not to 'spec chase' as well. We hope to prove this to the sim market over time and hence why our company name is called Sigma Integrale, or the summation of complete 'proper' integration of all elements in the product matter. So focusing on the proper integration of all aspects of a motion system (mechanical, electrical and software) with obvious tradeoffs such as power, price, convenience, installation, software compatibility etc. Speed, torque, response, travel and one that I am still trying to wrap my head around which is FIA certifications with no defined criteria, do not tell the whole story and sometimes can be misleading. Complete quality reconstruction of the signal is most important.
Sorry that is a long winded way to explain that is hard to tell what Will from Boosted really means. One example I can tell you here local is World of Racing, a local sim center with 3 locations now in USA and more coming soon. They have 4 Qubic VS-20 systems that attract the crowd and people love, and then the other 9 systems on Sigma DK6 and Dyn-X chassis. It's their opinion that the texture and reconstruction of motion just feels much better on the Sigma systems. (their words not mine) Qubic in their opinion is great for additional yaw and presence and not necessarily worse but just 'different'.
Hope that helps!
I think the community here would love your feedback once you get your system setup and running. It will be an great unbiased review from someone who actually has purchased the product or put his money where his mouth is. Secondly we almost always recommend DK2 or DK2+ initially to customer, specially those who did not have a motion system before. Most of our algorithms were tuned for DK2/2+ to begin with and with our Dynamic Scaling Algorithm, we believe it feels great. I would stick with your original choice, although we obviously make less margin on the lower priced products. ;-)
We also always offer an upgrade path for customers, so if a year or two or 10 from now you choose to upgrade, you can always do so. The link for that is here. [ hint: this is a great way to reset your system warranty as well :-P ] But in short we get customers saying that the DK2 at full settings is way too much power and we get other saying that its not enough. Meeting 'personal preferences' and then explaining them is very difficult, hence why we need better standards or objective empirical measurements in the space. My opinion.
The Qubic system is a great company and they have been around for a while now. The QS-220 is a great system and its hard to compare for me or anyone else, at least objectively. I don't think Will is wrong in his subjective analysis but he like other reviewers know that its a VERY difficult thing to define. It's actually one gripe about this industry that we at Sigma we have as well. We see so many half-truths or surface level discussions or blatant marketing gimmicks that we just think ultimately confuse people or make them choose brand in-groups to justify their purchase. (hope that make sense) And I know this is a bold statement but people are looking for the truth and its really hard to quantify that in 1-2 minute Instagram reel/story, so the fastest way to feel comfortable is to make easy to understand claims about a product you are selling. Truth is each product is different and better for different things and ultimately you just need to commit and compare (which is hard without going to sim centers or other places that have multiple units to try). So, that being said, I think its hard to quantify 'sharp and super responsive', no doubt the system is, but how is it compared to other turn key systems? Sigma is thinking of creating a free program, that will allow all users to compare (objectively) the performance of their system, luckily we already use such tools internally and even our Teknic motors have software which can objectively measure and report back accuracy and performance, old example here:
So the DK2 is an absolute blast and if you go into our Discord you will see that many people think its more than powerful enough. At $5k we think its an amazing product and one we are proud of as our goal at Sigma was always to make great products affordable to more people. We think the DK2 meets all those compromises quite well and is prices accordingly. It's also the only system that we know of on the market with completely CNC body and brackets (which is better for haptics/vibrations transfer), with proper American motors (more expensive but much more better performing we found, fun test here:
So Will is not wrong or has a bias, and he will be reviewing our DK2+ shortly. But its a multi factorial evaluation. #1 great motion starts with great telemetry (garbage in and garbage out as they say in computer science), without great telemetry or low Hz you are just filling in the missing data points with things like effects which some people call haptics rather than staying true to the signal. #2 there is a mechanical aspect to sharpness and responsiveness, such as ball screw pitch, friction, etc... #3 there is an electronic aspect as well, quality of the motor, electrical architecture etc. and finally there is the #4 Software or the algorithmic reconstruction of the signal, where we like to focus lots of our time and energy, for example such as the new Heave 2.0 release which took us 7 months to complete, 3 of those months which we completely had to throw away and start from scratch.
So you are not reading too much into this, you are going by the metrics provided but it is important not to 'spec chase' as well. We hope to prove this to the sim market over time and hence why our company name is called Sigma Integrale, or the summation of complete 'proper' integration of all elements in the product matter. So focusing on the proper integration of all aspects of a motion system (mechanical, electrical and software) with obvious tradeoffs such as power, price, convenience, installation, software compatibility etc. Speed, torque, response, travel and one that I am still trying to wrap my head around which is FIA certifications with no defined criteria, do not tell the whole story and sometimes can be misleading. Complete quality reconstruction of the signal is most important.
Sorry that is a long winded way to explain that is hard to tell what Will from Boosted really means. One example I can tell you here local is World of Racing, a local sim center with 3 locations now in USA and more coming soon. They have 4 Qubic VS-20 systems that attract the crowd and people love, and then the other 9 systems on Sigma DK6 and Dyn-X chassis. It's their opinion that the texture and reconstruction of motion just feels much better on the Sigma systems. (their words not mine) Qubic in their opinion is great for additional yaw and presence and not necessarily worse but just 'different'.
Hope that helps!
