Discussion | Direct Drive Wheels: The Good, Bad And The Ugly

[Paul Jeffrey]

Discussion time! Direct Drive wheels are becoming increasingly common in sim racing, but which one should you get?

Long gone are the days of just one or two niche manufacturers developing DD wheel solutions for a hardcore few. In 2020, the discerning sim racer has a wealth of choice when looking to make the switch to Direct Drive... but with so many options, and such a high price point, what constitutes a good purchase?

I am not going to even try and pretend I am an expert on all the different DD bases available today, far from it in fact, so I thought it worth throwing up this thread for our community to discuss their own experiences, and offer up advice to those still thinking over their next steps.

For the record, I run the Bodnar SimSteering V2 and absolutely love it; however at the price point they are asking, you will probably want to follow the route I took and purchase it second hand!

 

[BP]

This seems like the perfect thread to ask my question since many of you it seems went from a CSW v2.5 to a DD wheel of some kind, Fanatec or not (and sorry for the long-winded breakdown):

When you used your CSW v2.5, did you ever use it for extended periods with drift mode (DRI) set to 0...I mean really spend time tweaking it and the sim together, to where you're getting good amounts of force without clipping (obviously not higher DD levels of torque), but with minimal or no oscillation? I ask this because I'm wondering if it's really that mind-blowing of a difference in feel going from a well-calibrated CSW v2.5 with Drift mode 0 to a DD wheel. Direct Drive reaction speed, as Chris Haye and others mentioned, might be another story, but maybe it relates...not sure.

I'm in the market for a DD wheel (my heart is set right now on the upcoming VRS DirectForce Pro, based on the price and the feedback from those who have prototypes), so I'm not anti-DD wheel at all...but it's a question I can't escape, before dropping that kind of cash...especially if they lowered the strength to CSW comparable levels and was still blown away ("night and day difference in feel"). Better yet: someone who tamed the CSW and then tried a friend's DD wheel and was still blown away...as this might have less of a confirmation bias than those who bought a DD wheel (I'm not accusing anyone of not being objective; but confirmation bias is a real thing that can happen to the best of us). Also, I can't try out a DD wheel anywhere, as I live nowhere close to the sim-racing tech mecha that is Europe...heck it's quite possible I'm the only sim racer in this small country lol.

I'm mainly asking this because pretty much everyone that I've asked how they have/had their CSW setup before the switch, they'd say DRI was anywhere from -5 to -2 (with the occasional person saying -1), but I've never heard anyone say they gave drift mode 0 a fair shake to tune out the oscillation. Most give up, saying either it's too violent, or it feels too light overall.

For non-Fanatec users: drift mode -5 to -1 means that there was a constant amount of damper (weight/heaviness/resistance) on the wheel no matter what (whether a game is loaded or not), with -5 being the heaviest, -1 being the lightest. Please note this dampening is always there in addition to any dampening the sim implements, so combined the wheel gets even heavier when gaming. DRI set to +1 to +5 accelerates the wheel...the motor helps you move the wheel faster from lock to lock, thus the "drift" name.

However, Drift mode set to 0 attempts to get much closer to a direct drive feeling by removing this constant artificial damper completely...the difference in feel between drift mode -2 (much less -3 to -5) and drift mode 0 is very noticable, the wheel has nearly zero natural resistance...but most people don't use it because of the violent oscillations or the always light feel, which from my experience occurs due to these 3 things:

1) Either FFB gain, FFB low force boost (both in-game settings) and/or FFB strength on the Fanatec is set too high.
2) Anti-oscillation settings in-game (that were designed for DD wheels) weren't activated.
3) Damper setting in Fanatec setup was set to 0.

For #3, I attribute that to a learned habit from Logitech G27 days (at least from my journey)...where the common advice I'd see everywhere, to get the most detail out of G25 and G27 wheels, was to set overall strength to 100 - 107%, with Spring and Damper set to 0%. This was done because G27 had inherent dampening due to its design, so adding more would reduce detail quite a bit. However, with the Fanatec damper set at 0 (not to be confused with the "always on" Drift mode damper), the game can't apply any anti-oscillation techniques (usually a speed sensitive damper) when needed, so most people's experience with DRI 0 is an oscillating nightmare...in fact the game can't apply any dampening at all when setup like this...especially not in a dynamic way when it actually matters, thus the always light feeling that turns many off from Drift mode 0.

I set out awhile back to reduce the oscillation to near zero and still retain strong detailed forces and I've achieved it in nearly every sim (I have them all). It's at the point where I can feel more detail, can feel the wheel getting lighter much easier, because now there's a broader range between a heavy wheel and a light wheel...plus it wants to self-align much faster, making catching slides easier (of course, this idiot behind the wheel can't catch them all , but success rate definitely went up immensely). The settings vary depending on the actual wheel rim you use (Formula wheels need less FFB, heavier round rims like the Porsche 918 need more), but it's achievable. These are all traits I hear people use to describe the benefits of a DD wheel (especially the catching slides bit)...so I'm wondering how much is the jump worth it.

 

[EsxPaul]

Anyone have any personal experience with lower-torque Simplicity wheelbases (like the SW8C+)? It seems to compete closely with the ClubSport v2.5 base in price and power, but are the benefits of DD as pronounced without an apparent advantage in raw torque?

Best place to look is in here: https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/anyone-here-got-the-recent-osw-sw7c-sw10c-sw12c.157293/

There's lots of feedback from actual owners of those bases.

 

[Gadaga]

On my side I could not live without the telemetry based ffb of the accuforce (version one in my case) anymore. At times I try to use the game's ffb (iracing, AMS1/2, rfactor 2, AC, ACC...) but each time I go back to the telemetry based ffb.

 

[justfdl]

There are two kind of people, happy DD owners, and sour grapes who can't afford one.
On brand I'd go with Simucube. Have been on their hardware since 2015, these things are undestructable.

I have to respectfully disagree with that opinion. While I could afford it, I don't see a point in investing that kind of money. And it's not because I don't know how a good setup feels, I'm visiting a simracing arcade from time to time with full motion rigs, Bodnar V2 and Heusinkveld Simpedal Pro. To be honest, every single time I'm a bit disappointed how subtle the difference of my measly CSL Elite is compared to the DD wheel. I really wonder what the guys are feeling who are saying they never could go back, that I don't feel. I simply think it's not worth the effort and money, and I have absolutely no problem going back to my Elite.

At the same time it's a different thing comparing the pedals. While I'm still happy with my CSL elite LC pedals, the Heusinkvelds are playing in a different league. Once my pedals are giving up, which are still surprisingly without any issues after a lot of use and abuse, the Heusinkvelds is the direction my money goes in the future.

And keep in mind, FFB and everything around it is a highly subjective matter, there's really no need to disrespect other point of views, just because they differ from your own ones. Never forget FFB conveys g-forces and g-force changes like load moving from left to right or front to back, so the forces felt in a FFB wheel by definition can't be real. What works for one guy, doesn't feel right for the next one, so I don't think we need to consent on that, everybody should do what brings them the most enjoyment in their hobby.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Sometimes I wonder if people buy them just so they can post something like that.

Oh please! If you remember I was less than impressed when I first got my direct drive wheel. Not only that but I got injured by it within a couple weeks of getting it.

I firmly consider it a nice to have, but definently not needed upgrade. High quality load cell brakes make a much bigger difference.

I am not driving any faster because of having a direct drive wheel. However my brakes did help me improve my lap times.

 

[DaminoS]

I have the Fanatec CSW2.5 and would like to switch to the podium because I have a lot of Fanatec steering wheels. Unfortunately, the customer service and quality of Fanatec is very poor, I have had bad experiences. That's why I doubt whether I should buy a podium or switch completely to another brand. Maybe this survey will help me here.

I have the Fanatec CSW2.5 and would like to switch to the podium because I have a lot of Fanatec steering wheels. Unfortunately, the customer service and quality of Fanatec is very poor, I have had bad experiences. That's why I doubt whether I should buy a podium or switch completely to another brand. Maybe this survey will help me here.

hi, you can buy a simucube for exemple and get an adapter for fanatec steering wheel. I got one and my wheels work perfectly as on a fanatec base

 

[RCHeliguy]

I have to respectfully disagree with that opinion. While I could afford it, I don't see a point in investing that kind of money. And it's not because I don't know how a good setup feels, I'm visiting a simracing arcade from time to time with full motion rigs, Bodnar V2 and Heusinkveld Simpedal Pro. To be honest, every single time I'm a bit disappointed how subtle the difference of my measly CSL Elite is compared to the DD wheel. I really wonder what the guys are feeling who are saying they never could go back, that I don't feel. I simply think it's not worth the effort and money, and I have absolutely no problem going back to my Elite.

At the same time it's a different thing comparing the pedals. While I'm still happy with my CSL elite LC pedals, the Heusinkvelds are playing in a different league. Once my pedals are giving up, which are still surprisingly without any issues after a lot of use and abuse, the Heusinkvelds is the direction my money goes in the future.

And keep in mind, FFB and everything around it is a highly subjective matter, there's really no need to disrespect other point of views, just because they differ from your own ones. Never forget FFB conveys g-forces and g-force changes like load moving from left to right or front to back, so the forces felt in a FFB wheel by definition can't be real. What works for one guy, doesn't feel right for the next one, so I don't think we need to consent on that, everybody should do what brings them the most enjoyment in their hobby.

Absolutely!

I got one based on the hype. I like it, but it was NOT night and day better than my CS 2.5.

Converting my wheels over did not make sense to me. The biggest improvement that I enjoy with my SC2 is using a premium wheel.

 

[Schwud Nelsh]

Coming from a g27 for 3 years and a ts-pc for 3 weeks, everything I wanted to be improved is improved beyond of what I actually like to drive with now with my csw 2.5!
The csl elite btw wouldn't be enough for that.

can i ask why you only had your TS-PC for 3 weeks as i have just brought 1 have i brought the wrong wheel?

 

[nepal roade]

In terms of being fast, we are talking about competitive online racing and in that case you can be faster by switching to T-Camera view. I prefer to be slower and race in Cockpit view for the overall experience. I can't understand why anyone likes T-Camera view, as the view feels like you are driving in a truck seat position. It's a competitive advantage though.

You've piqued my curiosity. Is that speculation on your part or have you done some real world testing to prove it. I always use cockpit view and a wide FOV angle that makes the view as close to Real World sizes as I can get but wondered if it is a disadvantage. I have suspected this may be the case for some time and not just that view but any stretched out view that makes the turns less acute. Hope this is not going to start a flame war, it is genuine interest on my part.

 

[RasmusP]

can i ask why you only had your TS-PC for 3 weeks as i have just brought 1 have i brought the wrong wheel?

Wheel drove brilliantly! I'm mostly driving via stereo speakers and not with headphones on so thr coil whine drove me nuts.
Also the Ferrari Edition rim crackled a little under load.
But the driving itself: awesome!
Here are 2 videos showing the coil whine and why I find the csw to be a step up in quality:

 

[Miguel Batista]

Wheel drove brilliantly! I'm mostly driving via stereo speakers and not with headphones on so thr coil whine drove me nuts.
Also the Ferrari Edition rim crackled a little under load.
But the driving itself: awesome!
Here are 2 videos showing the coil whine and why I find the csw to be a step up in quality:

Yeah, the TS-PC is an awesome wheel. I also upgraded to a CSW not due to coil whine but because my business is using my old wheel.

I find the CSW a much better wheel overall but the center feeling of the TS-PC was hard to beat.

When will Thrustmaster release a DD wheel I wonder?

^^

 

[LogintoDL888]

I feel like DD wheels aren't worth the investment, you can be as fast and have as much fun in the video game with a 200 dollar wheel. Reminds me of Timmy Hill winning the iRacing NASCAR race at Texas with a G27.
But I can understand the purchase, if you want to go all-in in this hobby. At the end of the day, you can win in every equipment, as long as you have practice. And you can rage quit in the same equipment.
Speaking of rage quitters, people on YouTube such as Jimmy Broadband and their sponsors have created a whole bunch of hype with the goal of selling expensive gear.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Speaking of rage quitters, people on YouTube such as Jimmy Broadband and their sponsors have created a whole bunch of hype with the goal of selling expensive gear.

Jimmy is the wrong person to make an example of. He has been at this a long time and worked hard at building his channel up. I don't think he has been pushing expensive gear at all and I definitely don't consider him the source of hype. He is all about driving sims and has even branched out into the Karting world and drove the Ring. I'm glad that some manufacturers gave him some gear. But keep in mind that Heusinkveld didn't give him a set of their Ultimate pedals. He got a set of Pros. Those are even out of production. If they were trying to get him to help sell expensive gear they would at least keep him up to date with a set of Sprints. Considering his YouTube channel is his main occupation and how much time he spends driving sims, why wouldn't he have something decent.

Frankly I don't see others as pushing hardware that much either. GamerMuscles ran a belted wheelbase for a long time and when he gave his review of wheelbases a while back, he said that comparatively the CS 2.5 felt very good, and never suggested that direct drive wheels were a huge improvement. He may have one now, but he does this for a living so why not?

Frankly I think we tend to hype things up well enough on our own.

The YouTube videos that blow things out of proportion are by other guys not those two.

 

[BrunoBæ]

GamerMuscles ran a belted wheelbase for a long time and when he gave his review of wheelbases a while back, he said that comparatively the CS 2.5 felt very good, and never suggested that direct drive wheels were a huge improvement. He may have one now, but he does this for a living so why not?

At least your comment on GamerMuscle I agree with.
Hehe and he often include some humorous and sarcastic comments on some of the gears he have been offered to review.

 

[RasmusP]

I feel like DD wheels aren't worth the investment, you can be as fast and have as much fun in the video game with a 200 dollar wheel. Reminds me of Timmy Hill winning the iRacing NASCAR race at Texas with a G27.
But I can understand the purchase, if you want to go all-in in this hobby. At the end of the day, you can win in every equipment, as long as you have practice. And you can rage quit in the same equipment.
Speaking of rage quitters, people on YouTube such as Jimmy Broadband and their sponsors have created a whole bunch of hype with the goal of selling expensive gear.

Well 1 1/2 years ago I stood at a crossing. Quit simracing or buy better equipment.
I stagnated no matter how much I practiced and going from my real road car (boring super old c class) to my g27 felt like a toy. A clunky toy with a deadzone...
Braking without endless practicing was a mess. One short moment of not being fully concentrated made be miss by braking point, spin or understeer the car due to incorrect braking pressure during trail braking.

I got the csw 2.5 with the 2 pedal set. More pedal throw, more progressive resistance but still pots.
I wasn't faster around my well known tracks but suddenly I could jump between the different sims and drive well without much practice.
I also felt new things.. Like the downforce working in a gt3 at the Nordschleife.
Shaved off 2.5 seconds after 3 Laps only by feeling more around Flugplatz, 3-Fach-rechts and Schwalbenschwanz.

I felt new things on the front tyres in softer cars (ac BMW 235i or in dirt).
Made me a better, more consistent and at times faster driver.
And it instantly washed away any frustration about not feeling what I'm doing when I lose concentration.
I just drive by intuition now and it works.

I have to say though that i did the "going back test" too.
Put my g27 back in my wheel stand and the g27 pedals.
I could feel the same things now. Like an unknown page was turned around and made visible by the better equipment and now I could still read (use) it with cheaper equipment too.

I guess the guys who are extremely quick with cheap equipment are able to feel everything needed no matter the equipment.
But I couldn't and a lot of people can't either...

And another thing is the fun, when you know a real car or a Kart.
G27 felt just bad in comparison.
Fun fact: my csw 2.5 with a nice office chair (good for the back) and now the full csl pedals with load cell feel better and I'm in a healthier seating position than in my real car

 

[LogintoDL888]

Jimmy is the wrong person to make an example of. He has been at this a long time and worked hard at building his channel up. I don't think he has been pushing expensive gear at all and I definitely don't consider him the source of hype. He is all about driving sims and has even branched out into the Karting world and drove the Ring. I'm glad that some manufacturers gave him some gear. But keep in mind that Heusinkveld didn't give him a set of their Ultimate pedals. He got a set of Pros. Those are even out of production. If they were trying to get him to help sell expensive gear they would at least keep him up to date with a set of Sprints. Considering his YouTube channel is his main occupation and how much time he spends driving sims, why wouldn't he have something decent.

Frankly I don't see others as pushing hardware that much either. GamerMuscles ran a belted wheelbase for a long time and when he gave his review of wheelbases a while back, he said that comparatively the CS 2.5 felt very good, and never suggested that direct drive wheels were a huge improvement. He may have one now, but he does this for a living so why not?

Frankly I think we tend to hype things up well enough on our own.

The YouTube videos that blow things out of proportion are by other guys not those two.

Apologies for using Jimmy Broadband as an example, I have nothing against this person in particular. And while I understand the cult following YouTube personalities have, I won't talk bad of any of "youtubers" for fear of creating an online war, note that I don't take part of the mindless worshiping. I've been banned of reddit r/simracing because I criticized a simracing youtube person because of their unfunny memes.
Now that this is out of the way, I want to note that we would all love a DD wheel for free. The issue isn't the youtube personalities but more the sponsors that put their brand names everywhere on YouTube as part of their advertising campaign.
Thank you for reading and have a good day.

 

[LagunaSeca]

Jimmy is the wrong person to make an example of. He has been at this a long time and worked hard at building his channel up. I don't think he has been pushing expensive gear at all and I definitely don't consider him the source of hype. He is all about driving sims and has even branched out into the Karting world and drove the Ring. I'm glad that some manufacturers gave him some gear. But keep in mind that Heusinkveld didn't give him a set of their Ultimate pedals. He got a set of Pros. Those are even out of production. If they were trying to get him to help sell expensive gear they would at least keep him up to date with a set of Sprints. Considering his YouTube channel is his main occupation and how much time he spends driving sims, why wouldn't he have something decent.

Frankly I don't see others as pushing hardware that much either. GamerMuscles ran a belted wheelbase for a long time and when he gave his review of wheelbases a while back, he said that comparatively the CS 2.5 felt very good, and never suggested that direct drive wheels were a huge improvement. He may have one now, but he does this for a living so why not?

Frankly I think we tend to hype things up well enough on our own.

The YouTube videos that blow things out of proportion are by other guys not those two.

Agreed. Just look at Hi-Fi market, which is much older than our community. People discussing earphones does not mean people pushing others to spend $$$$$ to become an audiophile. Meanwhile, the biggest difference you can feel is the upgrade from a common earbud that comes with your phone, to an entry level amp with an "entry level" earphone like HD600/HD650. (Like upgrade from a xbox controller to a entry wheel) The upgrade from that point to something like HD820S is actually not that much.

Time will cure everything, just like audio nerds nowadays are in a separate community with people who are happy with beats. (But honestly, dont buy beats, they suck.) Everyone settles down and enjoy themselves in their own bubbles.

What actually makes feel sad is the amount of salt in this thread. I believe every DD owner, including me, in this thread, knows the concept of marginal return. We invest our time and money into a hobby just because we love it and we are willing to (and we are lucky that we can) show commitment. This is just like racing itself. Improving nordschleife time in a GT3 car from 8 minutes to 7 minutes is a lot easier than from 7 minutes to 6'30". But reality is a much bigger thing and it gets complicated very quickly. I often wonder if breaking the bubble is the right choice....

 

[RCHeliguy]

I believe every DD owner, including me, in this thread, knows the concept of marginal return.

Bingo!

I've purchased a pile of equipment to make my experience more immersive, not because I expected it to make me faster. Some of it was very hard to justify for any other reason than I wanted it.

I absolutely do not feel the need to sell people on what I happen to own. In some cases I tend to advise against some of the purchases I made. In fact I've done some things with my rig just to see if I could and to experiment because I enjoy the whole design and building process more than the actual racing.

 

[RCHeliguy]

At least your comment on GamerMuscle I agree with.
Hehe and he often include some humorous and sarcastic comments on some of the gears he have been offered to review.

GamerMuscle is about as self-deprecating as they come. How many times has he brought up how much of a chick magnet a sim rig is?

I don't watch many YouTubers in this niche any more, other than SimRacingGarage which does in fact showcase a lot of very expensive equipment. Barry has cost me some serious coin by showing me things that I decided I had to have. Even worse I help moderate a forum for High End Sim Rigs. So I get inundated with some serious rigs on a continual basis and some give me ideas which tend to cost me.

Here is a recent video posted in that forum.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

GamerMuscle is about as self-deprecating as they come. How many times has he brought up how much of a chick magnet a sim rig is?

I don't watch many YouTubers in this niche any more, other than SimRacingGarage which does in fact showcase a lot of very expensive equipment. Barry has cost me some serious coin by showing me things that I decided I had to have. Even worse I help moderate a forum for High End Sim Rigs. So I get inundated with some serious rigs on a continual basis and some give me ideas which tend to cost me.

Here is a recent video posted in that forum.

I’m still not sure why that rig is $100k when it’s not got any boutique kit like the top end 4 actuator 6” D-Box which alone costs $45k as opposed to the PT actuator 4 actuator plus TL & surge which is only $7k. Even at half the price that dude would have overpaid totalling all the gear up I just don’t see where the cost is.

At that price I would say you are actually better off getting a specialist like Vesaro ripping you off because at least then you are going to get great after sales support and then setting it all up for you perfectly!