Discussion | Direct Drive Wheels: The Good, Bad And The Ugly

[Paul Jeffrey]

Discussion time! Direct Drive wheels are becoming increasingly common in sim racing, but which one should you get?

Long gone are the days of just one or two niche manufacturers developing DD wheel solutions for a hardcore few. In 2020, the discerning sim racer has a wealth of choice when looking to make the switch to Direct Drive... but with so many options, and such a high price point, what constitutes a good purchase?

I am not going to even try and pretend I am an expert on all the different DD bases available today, far from it in fact, so I thought it worth throwing up this thread for our community to discuss their own experiences, and offer up advice to those still thinking over their next steps.

For the record, I run the Bodnar SimSteering V2 and absolutely love it; however at the price point they are asking, you will probably want to follow the route I took and purchase it second hand!

 

[Two Hands]

For what it's worth. I went from a quite old Fanatec Porsche Carrera wheel to an Accuforce V2. I purchased a rig, nicer pedals, a h pattern and a handbrake before upgrading my wheel after years of use. When I finally decided to upgrade I realized that it wasn't much more to buy an Accuforce if I waited for a sale and went with that. I tend to follow the buy once cry once mentality. I've never had a chance to play around with a nice belt drive wheel but I kind of want to someday. I love my Accuforce, it is amazing and I'm glad I went with a Direct Drive wheel, but not until you get it feeling right.

For some simulators running the default sim commander profile for a sim and making some small adjustments within the sims ffb settings is all you need to do to get it feeling great. Unfortunately more often than not you need to either spend time tinkering with both the sims ffb settings and the settings within sim commander to get it feeling good. This can take a lot of time, sometimes several weeks worth of tinkering for me until I'm truly satisfied. So it is worth thinking about this if you go the Accuforce route and I imagine it is the same for the others, maybe the Fanatec direct drives are easier to dial in but who knows.

The things I love about this wheel are how much information it gives you, the amount of customization available, the amount of force that can actually be conveyed is nice, although it can be physically tiring in some cases if you have it set too high. I noticed immediately that I was also able to catch slides better and could definitely feel the limit of traction better with my Accuforce. It also definitely improved my driving by making me more consistent.

The only things I really dislike is how much time it sometimes takes to get a sim to feel good and that more often than not there is no profile within your sim of choice that gives you a decent out of the box experience. It is worth it but you have to invest time into it which can take away from the enjoyment of this hobby until you find that sweet spot.

 

[hodge like]

[Please read to the end - this is not a love note to overpriced DD wheels]

DD wheel - a big industrial motor connected directly to the wheel you hold, no belts, no gears or anything else to interpret the signal you get all the feedback directly to your hands (unlike almost any power-assisted car available to buy today - excluding go-karts and some minor lightweight track/race cars).

Fidelity - DD wheels give a wider range of forces and feedback effects than the 'regular' Logi/Thrustmaster wheels. Feedback through the wheel, maybe, arguably, closer to the real car depending on the game and effects included.

Centre feel - the centre wheel feel of DD is immediate, neither belted TX nor geared Logi are able to produce this.

Wheel Weight - DD motors can produce huge forces that the gear and belt wheels can't. Trouble is very few real cars (classic F1/Indy car?) produce anywhere close to these forces through the wheel. If you are really tough you can crank the weight to 100% and make a YouTube video...

One-upmanship - having a DD wheel marks you out as a YouTuber who got one free top to promote, having more money than sense, 5 seconds faster than the other wheels owning the very best equipment available in sim racing today honestly not just a fancy desk ornament.

The bigger question - is DD really worth the money?

Full disclosure: I own a Fantec DD2 setup that I paid for with my own money, I also have a TX458 wheel for the Xbox One and a Logi G29 wheel for the PS4 and have owned a wide range of wheels before these.

The questions I've been asked most often:

Does a DD wheel make you faster? A DD wheel does not in itself make anyone faster, the nut behind the wheel still makes the difference.

How much difference does a DD wheel make? The last 5% and it really depends how much you value being able to feel those last few sensations and forces. I've driven enough real cars on track to know the subtlety of steering feel in a Lotus versus the tarmac pounding submission of an RS Audi. A DD wheel gives something closer to the Lotus levels of detailed steering feel.

Should I buy one? Only if you have disposable money that doesn't matter to you, this is an irreverent hobby. These wheels are not essential despite what paid YouTubers might claim. Yes, they are lovely desk art and feel fabulous to hold but the difference in performance is negligible if any. It really depends on how much you value that last 5% of feedback and feel. I bought one, I don't regret it but if I only had one choice of £2k toy I'd buy a large OLED TV, way more wow factor for your £2k.

You don't need a DD wheel to have fun or be fast at racing games. If you have the money and want that last 5% of the experience, by all means, go for it, just don't expect the revelation some claim. It will look good on your rig and impress friends (when they are allowed to visit again).

A good read that, I am firmly staying with my CSW V2.5/918 RSR rim as for me, it provides all I would reasonably expect. Desk art is a good quote haha.

 

[Chris Haye]

You tend to get a lot of sampling bias in a thread like this. Anecdotally, I've never spoken to a sim racer that has regretted moving to a DD setup.

As for me, all I can say with any certainty is; when I've been forced to go back to using a belt driven wheel (at events / shows etc), I'm very thankful that I get to use a DD setup at home. The added dynamic range is nice, but the faster response is where these systems really shine through.

 

[sardokard]

I ave an Accuforce 2 since 2017 and i'm totally satisfy.
Never a problem. The wheel never disconnect and the feedback is just perfect for me.
I have tested the Fanatec and the feeling is not good (but i could see the different between AF2 is few minutes) but i don't like all the system link.
The SimCube is very interristing but i read a lot of problem (light) with it !

What i realy love with the AF2 is the all metal design and more than all, the modularity : it s possible to plug just a wheel, whithout electronic Hub, i love the design !

 

[antonn]

I think these ruffles are great one like the other, however their price is far too high.

 

[Rubinski]

I have a simucube1. had before a fanatec CSL Elite and then a Thrustmaster T500.
I bought the simucube second hand.
The DD overall feel is better, but i would never pay the full price.
I have also heusinkveld pedals and this is in my opinion a better investment.

I think all DD wheel are roughly the same.
The difference is in my opinion the software.
I find it very hard to get the most out of my simucube.
I can't seem to find on the web 1 good source that covers all.

For example : the 360hz mode in iracing.
A lot of people are saying that you really need that 360hz mode. (

)
But to unlock it you need software that is not coming for iracing (irffb).
If the 360hz is zo important, why doesn't iracing activate it in their software (by default).
I would be very happy to further discuss this topic

 

[CC]

I have a simucube1. had before a fanatec CSL Elite and then a Thrustmaster T500.
I bought the simucube second hand.
The DD overall feel is better, but i would never pay the full price.
I have also heusinkveld pedals and this is in my opinion a better investment.

I think all DD wheel are roughly the same.
The difference is in my opinion the software.
I find it very hard to get the most out of my simucube.
I can't seem to find on the web 1 good source that covers all.

For example : the 360hz mode in iracing.
A lot of people are saying that you really need that 360hz mode. (

)
But to unlock it you need software that is not coming for iracing (irffb).
If the 360hz is zo important, why doesn't iracing activate it in their software (by default).
I would be very happy to further discuss this topic

360hz edition is another DLC it’s 14.99

 

[Chrhun]

Well, first I have to admit that I'm the guy that just wants nice stuff. There is no way to justify the amount of money I've spent on my rig, I don't even get to drive that much. What I'm looking for is the best possible immersion - the feeling when everything is just right, feel real and I've gotten pretty close with my current setup. It's dream chasing.

Like some said, there are in reality very few people who complain about their DD wheels performance. I had a CSW 2.5 which I liked a lot and I guess I could be quite happy with one, if not having tried a DD wheel. For me the big things are the wheel center feel and ability to use just the right amount of power without losing any feedback. When driving a fast car and taking a fast corner, the wheel feels absolutely solid and real. There is no flex or rubber band feeling, or a feel of the wheel struggling in any way.

Mine is a DD2. Is it 2.5 times better than the CSW? No way. One thing I say though is that these things generally have too much power, like many have noted here. I went for the DD2 because of my "no regrets" tactic - I should have just gone with the DD1. I use around 35-40% of the power on the DD2. I also went with Fanatec because I had the wheels. That has "saved" me a lot of money, otherwise I'd have a full set of Cube Controls wheels.

I've perhaps been lucky, but for me the DD2 has been pretty much plug&play. I use the Fanalabs software and the baseline setups from the Fanatec site. Now I just launch Fanalabs, it detects the game I launch and I get the right settings every time. You can go really deep with this making individual settings of each car if you wish, but that is not required.

So, I think when we get more options like the new Simagic wheel (and we will!), accessible priced (600-800usd/euro) sets with 8-10Nm of torque the higher end belt driven wheels will just disappear from the market. They offer zero advantage over a similarly priced DD set.

 

[Terje Helle]

I don’t own a DD, but I have tried one.

Why do I want one:
Because you can use all kind of wheel sizes with it, and still have good FFB. I want to have a big wooden wheel. For the old racing cars. One of the things I do like the most with SimRacing is the variety of cars and eras it’s possible to race.

It’s fast even with the forces set to low.

No more clipping. (I own a TSPC, and with open wheeler’s like the Skippy, it clips when I have dialed in the wheel to my liking.)

I do use a considerably amount of my spare time in the Sim. So the cost per hour are neglect-able.

Is a DD better than a belt drive wheel. YES!

 

[CC]

Well, first I have to admit that I'm the guy that just wants nice stuff. There is no way to justify the amount of money I've spent on my rig, I don't even get to drive that much. What I'm looking for is the best possible immersion - the feeling when everything is just right, feel real and I've gotten pretty close with my current setup. It's dream chasing.

Like some said, there are in reality very few people who complain about their DD wheels performance. I had a CSW 2.5 which I liked a lot and I guess I could be quite happy with one, if not having tried a DD wheel. For me the big things are the wheel center feel and ability to use just the right amount of power without losing any feedback. When driving a fast car and taking a fast corner, the wheel feels absolutely solid and real. There is no flex or rubber band feeling, or a feel of the wheel struggling in any way.

Mine is a DD2. Is it 2.5 times better than the CSW? No way. One thing I say though is that these things generally have too much power, like many have noted here. I went for the DD2 because of my "no regrets" tactic - I should have just gone with the DD1. I use around 35-40% of the power on the DD2. I also went with Fanatec because I had the wheels. That has "saved" me a lot of money, otherwise I'd have a full like of Cube Controls wheels.

I've perhaps been lucky, but for me the DD2 has been pretty much plug&play. I use the Fanalabs software and the baseline setups from the Fanatec site. Now I just launch Fanalabs, it detects the game I launch and I get the right settings every time. You can go really deep with this making individual settings of each car if you wish, but that is not required.

So, I think when we get more options like the new Simagic wheel (and we will!), accessible priced (600-800usd/euro) sets with 8-10Nm of torque the higher end belt driven wheels will just disappear from the market. They offer zero advantage over a similarly priced DD set.

Exact same position as you apart from the 2.5 I have a CSL,
Just ordered a DD2,
I highly doubt I will use even 50% or that torque from the motor not once,

just when I am driving with my rig in which I love, it’s just when cornering,
It’s like I am turning then turning again and again and it’s giving sensations of stretching more than turning, it’s soo vague the response,
Instead of concentrating on trying to get faster times I am cornering thinking you know what this is nonsense I should be driving a DD wheel on the edge,
I want to turn and I want 100% response from the motor nothing else is acceptable,

the extra fine details would be nice also but I run 3x Behringer NX1000 Amps and 6 LFE Buttkickers + a Jetseat but I need a new cable our rabbit chewed it,
but anyways with this I am getting incredible road surface detail everywhere all 4 tyres on each corner of my rig + 2 under my seat giving gravel and gear changes among other fine detailing, the driving experience is second to non apart from the vague cornering inputs + the notchy centre position,

last Year I was running with CSL pedals which are very nice pedals in there own right and upto that point best I ever used, then was lucky enough my wife bought me some sprint pedals for my birthday and oh boy they changed everything, these pedals are mind blowing I can not praise them enough,

I just really hope with this DD2 I will love it just as much as these sprint pedals, I keep telling myself soon my rig be complete but now looking at trackIR 5 among other goodies,
Keeps me happy building though it’s all good fun!

 

[Spinelli]

Spinelli, I watched most of the video but I can't say that I have felt what you are describing. Also went form Argon OSW 2500, the 5000 20Nm mige encoder to sc1 with 30Nm Mige and Biss C to the SC2 pro. I believe that they are torque driven as it is, the position is only used for feedback to the game to get steering angle. Position is also internally used inside the controller as far as I know but to calculate effects, not to try and move the wheel to a position.

You also describe how it is unrealistic how the wheel behaves and then show footage from a formula car. I can't say that what I am seeing looks completely unrealistic. You put some lock on a wheel and let it go on an openwheeler like that and it's going to bounce back at you, driven by the speed of the front tires centering. It seems to be trying to demonstrate something as unrealistic by driving in a way that wouldn't be done. To me, from accidents I have seen footage from, a wheel snapping like that on that kind of vehicle is not uncommon. If it is unrealistic, who drives like that to care? Perhaps the sims are not modelling resistence in the steering rack then yes, perhaps it goes faster than it would but it's still a use case that shouldnt worry the majority of us.

You're not getting it. I'm only letting go of the wheel to try and show the insane immediacy of the wheel. You don't drive around cars and have the wheel automatically correct the car for you at practically the speed of light. The driver needs to apply the inputs and use his/her own skill to correct the car. Yes, of course the wheel does this automatically too in real-life but nothing like in our sims. Also, it's not just the immediacy of the wheel, it's the constant force also which can't be seen in the video (but I tried describing in the first 2 minutes). It's nothing like a real car. I don't know how anyone could even begin to think that's even close to realistic. Just because the rear of a car slides away from you doesn't mean your wheel should want to snap with the force of a thousand bears as if you just smashed into the wall. Yes, the wheel snap like that from accidents is realistic, you're right, from accidents - smashing into a wall - not from normal driving.

I remember doing a test where I set the wheel to only 7 Nm (give or take 1 Nm) and drove the Abarth Fiat 500 in Assetto Corsa and it was ridiculous how overly powerful the SAT on that car was relative to all the other forces. My friend owns the identical car and it's like 15% as powerful in that regard (SAT) as in the game with a DD wheel. The problem is if you lower overall FFB forces to make the SAT forces much more realistic then you'll be driving with way, way too low overall forces.

A big thing is the constant force being applied in the opposite lock direction but this can't be seen in the video. The constant overly powerful force being applied wanting to rotate the wheel all the way to the end stops while the car/driver is in a state of holding and playing with slip-angles is incredibly unrealistic. You can even see this slightly in some moments in the video when the wheel does fully turn all the way to lock and is bouncing off the lock with finger-snapping power. Sliding a car in real-life doesn't mean the wheel wants to rotate with the power to crush your fingers into a pancake. There have even been times where I felt it was best to fully let go of the wheel - exactly like what you do in a bad accident - just because I got to the point where I realized I couldn't save the car anymore and was going to spin because of the insanely disproportionately powerful force.

Another thing that's incredibly unrealistic is how the FFB is always so "springy." In real life, just because it may take a lot of effort to turn the wheel from angle x to angle y doesn't necessarily mean that the wheel should then want to return back to angle x at the same speed & power - it simply doesn't work like that in real-life. In-game though, you always have this insane force wanting to return to centre. I've driven old cars as well as race cars that required tons of force to turn the wheel but there wasn't anywhere near that same amount of force trying to "spring" the wheel back to centre; however, in our games, it always seems to be the same (or thereabouts) both in both ways. I've never been able to replicate this anywhere near realistic with games and DD-wheels.

FFB tech is prehistoric and fundamentally flawed:
- Microsoft Direct Input tech alone is a limitation with regards to FFB potential. Even the iRacing guys know this, even the Simucube 2 guys know this, and many other "FFB gurus" in the simracing scene that I've spoken to. Microsoft D.I. is 1990s tech and barely touched since and was never intended to be used with such highly advanced and powerful machinery like DD wheels.
- Aside from Microsoft D.I., fundamental FFB is simply flawed as it is also due to the other 2 points I mentioned above (torque-based motor control VS velocity and/or position based, passive/reactive steering system VS active). Implementing these would be extremely complex but it's yet 2 more fundamentals of steering of game FFB that are flawed relative to real-life "FFB"
- I also suggest reading the fundamental flaws of FFB that Leo Bodnar himself wrote in an article years back (available in PDF somewhere on this site I think).
- Furthermore, of that, basically every real life driver I've ever seen or heard about trying DD wheels always said they needed to lower the power from the apparent "realistic" power setting as the overall behavior is overly aggressive, powerful and simply unrealistic.
- Also,, real life steering systems have way, way, way, way more mass and inertia than our systems. Software inertia filters help but it's not the same.
- Finally, what happens in our powerful DD systems if we put a heavier wheel on? Does the FFB simply slow down and react softer, slower, etc. because of the added weight like it should and would in real life? No. What actually happens is the wheel applies more power to try and make up for that extra weight (unless you're in a power/torque clipping situation) because the wheel is trying to get to a certain point in a certain amount of time. This fundamental logic itself is the complete opposite to real-life...Just this point alone shows how flawed and unrealistic FFB tech is before even getting to all the other things mentioned.

I still wouldn't ever give rid of my DD wheel, don't get me wrong

 

[dsl71]

Most important is a good stiff rig with a good ergonomic seating position. This is the first you should invest.

Good reliable pedals come second.

Third, a DD base is very nice but not a must have in the beginning. (coming from CSL PS4 to DD1)
Its more predictable i think.

Fourth one general wheel rim you should own, followed by special rims if needed (Formula e.g)

Fifth stuff like motion is the cream on top. (love my SFX 100)


As for FFB i think more accurate signals from the sims would give us the most benefit, not the artificial filters of the different brands.

 

[Spinelli]

As for FFB i think more accurate signals from the sims would give us the most benefit, not the artificial filters of the different brands.

You need filters because we aren't driving real-cars. The fundamental way FFB works, not to mention our actual physical setups, are nothing like reality. Even if God came down and made a game with literally 1:1 perfect physics, we'd still need FFB filters because the FFB technology and method that games use is completely different to reality therefore a 1:1 perfect physics sim will not result in realistic FFB and maybe not even decent FFB if not using any filters whatsoever.

The artificial filters aren't just because we don't have perfect physics or FFB from games. It's more complex than that. Microsoft Direct Input is a limitation, torque-based control VS speed/velocity based is another, passive/reactive steering system VS active is another, turning a steering wheel just connected to an insanely low inertia motor VS a vehicle's entire physics steering system, etc.. FFB doesn't work like real-life therefore perfect 1:1 physics / FFB signals won't make a FFB wheel with 0 filters realistic.

Having said that, yes, more accurate physics & FFB signals from games is a must

 

[Interslice]

As someone who moved on from a joypad 3 weeks ago when i picked up g29 pedals, wheel and gearstick for 219 euro, new and delivered, i can safely say i would be just as far down the grid no matter what the spec of my rig.

There appears to be alot of messing with settings to get the most from a wheel. I'm still working on ffb options in CM but have the base settings pretty ok now. I'm only running it at 60% gain so not sure why you would want a wheel with more torque. Feel is probably where it's missing a bit, but i dont have it fully dialled in yet. It feels to loose in the centre then suddenly when you turn into a corner it resists alot... Lookup tables provide a more linear transition I'm guessing.

It appears like many things gaming hardware related to be a game of bottlenecks. I'm using a 21.5 inch screen so thats my next point of improvement. It's currently like driving a wwII tank sim!

As said above driving position and rigidity are important and i will be next when i get the vision sorted. I'll be taking it one step at a time

Just my 2 cents

Brian

 

[dsl71]

You are right. But for now some sims lack a good basic FFB signal as well. This i meant.

 

[RobertR1]

I got into sim as a substitute for track driving. I setup my OSW to feel like my track car and it does a good job at that. I can't complain. I can feel the fine details of front end and the loading up of the weight. Those are the main areas of feedback I need to feel comfortable pushing a car.

A DD by itself won't make you faster, slower, or anything. However it gives you a wider range of options to tune the feedback to your personal preference. Ultimately it depends on what your goals are and what you're trying to get out of it.

 

[metalnwood]

@Spinelli, I just cant relate to what you are saying in any way that has been a problem for me. I generally don't hear it from my friends or other guys with DD. I don't know what is happening in your situation.

My car doesnt turn the wheel that fast but your test used open wheeler doing 100-120. I've never been in a position to do that test in real life.

 

[RasmusP]

You need filters because we aren't driving real-cars. The fundamental way FFB works, not to mention our actual physical setups, are nothing like reality. Even if God came down and made a game with literally 1:1 perfect physics, we'd still need FFB filters because the FFB technology and method that games use is completely different to reality therefore a 1:1 perfect physics sim will not result in realistic FFB and maybe not even decent FFB if not using any filters whatsoever.

The artificial filters aren't just because we don't have perfect physics or FFB from games. It's more complex than that. Microsoft Direct Input is a limitation, torque-based control VS speed/velocity based is another, passive/reactive steering system VS active is another, turning a steering wheel just connected to an insanely low inertia motor VS a vehicles entire physics steering system, etc.. FFB doesn't work like real-life therefore perfect 1:1 physics / FFB signals won't make a FFB wheel with 0 filters realistic.

Indeed. First massive difference is that in reality you have 2 spinning wheels that both want to stay straight on their own vs 1 active motor (or 2 in Logitechs) that simply can't "push into the center from both sides" like a real caster angle does.
You either get no force at all (1 motor) or oscillations (2 motors) when driving on a perfectly straight plane without steering inputs or bumps.
One can help against this "no feel at the center" by raising the strength of little bumps or using a gyro-speed-based-dampening like AC and ACC do.
This way you get some resistance or simply slight oscillations that feel kinda real but one will never achieve the feel of two real wheels pushing into the absolute center via caster angle.

Which is why I liked the center feel of the ts-pc with its higher belt resistance better than my csw 2.5. It gave some initial resistance against turning at all but once there was ffb output or a real turning input, the resistance of the ts-pc went down a lot and I didn't feel any of the belt resistance anymore.

Putting the "dri" setting on the csw leads to constant slowing down of the wheel. Not really nice either...

My idea would be to create a high frequency oscillation of left/right forces at 0-2% ffb output that push towards the center. Fine tune it so it won't feel like sandpaper but give some little initial resistance.
Or a damper that goes away at 2% ffb output or more than 3° of steering angle.

Got a few friends that went from T500 or TS-PC to a Simucube 2 and they all said the same about the center not feeling as real as before.
Everything else blew their mind of course. But this center feel...

 

[cubex]

...is a limitation, torque-based control VS speed/velocity based is another

What exactly do you mean by that? I don't know about the interface/communication protocol between wheel and game, but the motor in a DD-wheel itself will almost certainly be torque-controlled

 

[tonydean2]

Interesting but pretty academic for me unfortunately. As a pensioner money is tight so all DD wheels even the entry level are way out of my reach financially. After a lot of scrimping and saving I recently upgrades from my T300RS (excellent wheel by the way IMO) to the TCPC Racer. The difference is light and day, ffb, the general feel and performance, reaction time are light years apart IMO. Like some I play little head to the You Tube influencers. I got my wheel as a result of comments made in RD. Now my TC3PA Pro pedals are being upgraded to Thrustmasters new load cell model, which they have assured me I will be receiving with 5 days of order despite the worlds issues. I'm looking forward to trying them, again bought as a result of comments posted in RD. Would I like a DD wheel, hell yeah but in reality they will sadly remain way beyond my finances. I'll make do with what I have and live with the derisive comments from the self styled elite about not being a real sim racer if I don't have one