Did you know? GTR2 supports 180hz+ FFB

[Shovas]

Improved Force Feedback Feeling in GTR2 Approaching AMS1/rF1 Feel

Due to GTR2's FFB loop being tied to the refresh rate, the sky is the limit when it comes to GTR2's FFB update rate... *mindblown*

Treat yourself:

1. Download crowdsourced per-wheel FFB settings from the SHO Competition FFB mod

2. Disable vsync from the GTR2Config.exe program. This unlocks your video refresh rate which also unlocks your ffb rate providing you a much more refined ffb signal. For Steam, you can find it via the Steam GTR2 Manage menu options.

3. Recommended: Allow GTR2 to use all your CPU cores. This will dramatically increase your FPS and more FPS will make the FFB feel better. Download the free Bill's Process Manager or nagware Process Lasso to set CPU Affinity (make it use all your CPU cores) and set it to use all physical cores.

Now enjoy a much improved FFB driving experience, approaching AMS1/rF1 FFB, with less FFB clipping and more road feel even in high force cornering

Disabling vsync is not the only improvement:

The crowdsourced per-wheel PLR FFB parameters in the SHO Competition FFB mod are still much improved over default values and you should definitely feel an improvement. In particular, the default FFB Steer Force Output Max value was soft-clipping in the in-game ffb calculations at the default 1.8 value. Now, with a tuned value, road forces come through in high ffb corners and it should feel much better.

Enjoy!

---

Updates:

Update 2023-05-22: Previous version of this post referenced 2005 FiaGT Mod (RD Download Link), which is a great mod (one of my personal favourites), but it was tuned for an older version of these FFB params and may not have the best feel anymore. That said, it still feels good, but the newest FFB params are tuned against original content cars and tracks now. Kudos to the authors of 2005 FiaGT Mod, GTR233, JorritVD, and LeSunTzu, for working on the ffb and tire model that makes it so expressive.

Update 2022-05-19: I actually ran an experiment with low fps to confirm ffb refresh rate is tied to framerate. Details in this comment.

Update 2020-04-19: Released an update to the mod with AMS1-inspired FFB and crowdsourced wheel PLRs. Click here to download it. Thank you everyone who helped out!

Update 2020-03-15: I have produced another set of FFB params inspired by AMS1 FFB params that may feel better for non-DD users. Click here for the comment with the details. *Previous updates at bottom.

Update 2019-11-15*: I have settled on a universal set of PLR FFB params instead of having one per car-set. After having discovered a key issue with the "FFB steer force output max=1.8" default value I was able to find a universal fit for all cars/mods. I have included the UserData PLR FFB Params you need to change below. See bottom for params.

Update 2019-11-15: My latest universal UserData PLR FFB Params:

FFB steer force average weight="1.00000"
FFB steer force exponent="0.75149"
FFB steer force input max="11500.00000"
FFB steer force output max="0.95000"
FFB steer force grip weight="0.17362"
FFB steer force grip factor="1.00000"
FFB steer update thresh="0.00000"
FFB steer friction coefficient="0.04597"
FFB steer friction saturation="1.00000"
FFB steer damper coefficient="0.04597"
FFB steer damper saturation="1.00000"

Update 2019-07-03: EDIT: Added RD Download Link for 2005 FiaGT Mod. Check out Secrets of GTR2 Custom FFB Files for the latest FFB-tuned PLR files for stock cars and various other car sets. These FFB improvements are for any mod or car, not just the 2005 FiaGT Mod (that's just the first one that turned out really well).

 

[Shovas]

Thanks, I see, so you tweaked Grip Weight, Damper, and some others?

 

[Shovas]

I have produced a new set of FFB params inspired by AMS1's FFB params that I hope feels better for Non-DD wheels. I'd appreciate if you could try it out and let me know how it feels. Incidentally, these settings also feel good on GT Legends.

Please try tuning "FFB steer force output max" (default 1.8, recommended 1.0-1.35) to your preference. Also try tuning "FFB steer force grip weight" (default 0.9, recommended 0.1-0.6). Steer Vibe params tweaked. All other FFB params are at AMS1 default values. Please post your params if you find something you like so I can try and see what non-DD wheel users prefer.

Try each iteration below to find one you like (attached below). Backup your PLR first!

Shovas - v5-beta3_PLR.txt:
- Reduce exaggerated grip loss feel in loss-of-grip scenarios (ie. lateral sliding) by down-tuning "FFB steer force grip weight=0.40781". I am not sure if this will feel better or worse on non-DD wheels but it feels better to me on a DD. Feedback welcome.
- Friendly for Non-DD and DD wheels

Shovas - v5-beta2_PLR.txt:
- Try to reach max steering force without (much) FFB clipping because non-DD wheels lose a lot of steering force without this. Now "FFB steer force output max=1.35" which results in some clipping but it's tolerable.
- Tuned "FFB steer force grip weight=0.67500" because tuning "FFB steer force output max" caused loss-of-grip slides to feel exaggerated. This Grip Weight is 25% less than the default (0.9) to correlate with the percentage change of "FFB steer force output max" (ie. 1.8 to 1.35 = 25%). Grip Weight could still be lower and I may keep tuning lower in future iterations.
- Friendly for Non-DD and DD wheels

Shovas - v5-beta1_PLR.txt:
- Automobilista 1 inspired tuning (attemps to maintain strong steering while avoiding clipping)
- Tune "FFB steer force output max" between 1.0 and 1.35 for greater steering strength but try to avoid FFB clipping
- Friendly for Non-DD and DD wheels

How to use the PLRs above:

Open in a text editor and copy all "FFB" lines EXCEPT lines starting with "FFB Joy" lines and replace the same lines in your own PLR. It's easy to select the right lines just start selecting from "FFB Device Type" and go to "FFB jolt magnitude".

Note: For reference, I've added "AMS1 Controller_ini.txt" so you can see what it's original values are like

Reminders about disabling effects I like but you may not like:

- Disable Friction: FFB steer friction coefficient="0.00000"

- Disable Damper: FFB steer damper coefficient="0.00000"

- Disable Rumble Strips: FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.00000"

- Disable Brake Vibration: FFB brake vibe zero magnitude="0.00000"

- Disable Throttle Vibration: FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude="0.00000"

- Disable Steering Vibration: FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.00000"

I noticed after viewing AMS1's Controller.ini that most of its FFB params matched GTR2's PLR FFB params (same names, different values) so I copy&pasted them in to see what it felt like. While amazing under AMS it resulted in FFB clipping in GTR2 so again I had to lower Steer Force Output Max and I felt I had to reduce Grip Weight but everything else is pretty much the same.

I still prefer v4 for DD wheels but for others this may feel better.

 

[ToddMcDanger]

The lateral forces for me are very good. I would need to increase the magnitude of steering vibration and curbs. Still testing however.

 

[Shovas]

The lateral forces for me are very good. I would need to increase the magnitude of steering vibration and curbs. Still testing however.

When you're happy with it I'd like to see your PLR if you don't mind. That'll give me an idea of how it compares to the values I ended up with.

 

[Shovas]

Reminders about disabling effects I like but you may not like:

- Disable Friction: FFB steer friction coefficient="0.00000"

- Disable Damper: FFB steer damper coefficient="0.00000"

- Disable Rumble Strips: FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.00000"

- Disable Brake Vibration: FFB brake vibe zero magnitude="0.00000"

- Disable Throttle Vibration: FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude="0.00000"

- Disable Steering Vibration: FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.00000"

Added some notes about disabling features that I like but others may dislike.

 

[Shovas]

Please try tuning "FFB steer force output max" (default 1.8, recommended 1.0-1.35) to your preference. Also try tuning "FFB steer force grip weight" (default 0.9, recommended 0.1-0.2). All other FFB params are at AMS1 default values. Please post your params if you find something you like so I can try and see what non-DD wheel users prefer.

Added notes about tuning the params I changed from AMS1 default, all other FFB params are AMS1 original values.

 

[Shovas]

Shovas - v5-beta2_PLR.txt:
- Try to reach max steering force without (much) FFB clipping because non-DD wheels lose a lot of steering force without this. Now "FFB steer force output max=1.35" which results in some clipping but it's tolerable.
- Tuned "FFB steer force grip weight=0.67500" because tuning "FFB steer force output max" caused loss-of-grip slides to feel exaggerated. This Grip Weight is 25% less than the default (0.9) to correlate with the percentage change of "FFB steer force output max" (ie. 1.8 to 1.35 = 25%). Grip Weight could still be lower and I may keep tuning lower in future iterations.

Added new beta2 PLR file

 

[Shovas]

Shovas - v5-beta3_PLR.txt:
- Reduce exaggerated grip loss feel in loss-of-grip scenarios (ie. lateral sliding) by down-tuning "FFB steer force grip weight=0.40781". I am not sure if this will feel better or worse on non-DD wheels but it feels better to me on a DD. Feedback welcome.
- Friendly for Non-DD and DD wheels

Attached a new beta3 PLR

 

[ToddMcDanger]

Seems like some of our numbers are converging. Here are my personal settings for my CSL Elite wheel, P1 Rim, Lode Cell pedals and H-shifter. Internal hardware settings are rotation 540 deg and FF 50%. For PnG mod I find that 900 deg is more to my liking.

FFB Gain="1.00000" (I originally had my internal wheel FF at 100% and gain at 0.40000 but the inverse has more detail)
FFB steer vibe freq mult="1.00000"
FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.20000" (This is quite high, but I like the more constant feedback it provides)
FFB steer vibe slope="1.00000" (This is also high, seems to take the edge off without dulling other effects)
FFB steer vibe wave type="0" (Again less abrupt)
FFB steer force average weight="1.00000" (Lowest latency)
FFB steer force exponent="1.00000" (This can be lowered to .85 - .95 to give a tighter on-center feel)
FFB steer force output max="1.40000"
FFB steer force grip weight="0.65000"
FFB steer force grip factor="0.40000" (These three settings are the magic sauce for at the limit and beyond feel, and they seem to be linked in some way that I don't fully understand....yet. You will see that I just placed them in the middle of the recommended values. Surprise! It works well for me.)

Some other values
FFB steer friction and damper coefficient I have set to zero, so none.
FFB throttle vibe settings I took directly from Race 07. They seem to only matter at idle and during ignition. I've been wondering if maybe they add unwanted noise in motion. Frequency 0.4 \ Magnitude 0.1 \ Slope -2.0 \ Wave 0 \ Update 0.02
FFB rumble strip Magnitude: 0.5 \ Frequency 1.0 \ Wave 0 \ Pull factor -0.25

Full PLR attached here.

 

[Shovas]

Internal hardware settings are rotation 540 deg and FF 50%.

FFB Gain="1.00000" (I originally had my internal wheel FF at 100% and gain at 0.40000 but the inverse has more detail)
FFB steer vibe freq mult="1.00000"
FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.20000" (This is quite high, but I like the more constant feedback it provides)
FFB steer vibe slope="1.00000" (This is also high, seems to take the edge off without dulling other effects)
FFB steer vibe wave type="0" (Again less abrupt)
FFB steer force average weight="1.00000" (Lowest latency)
FFB steer force exponent="1.00000" (This can be lowered to .85 - .95 to give a tighter on-center feel)
FFB steer force output max="1.40000"
FFB steer force grip weight="0.65000"
FFB steer force grip factor="0.40000" (These three settings are the magic sauce for at the limit and beyond feel, and they seem to be linked in some way that I don't fully understand....yet. You will see that I just placed them in the middle of the recommended values. Surprise! It works well for me.)

I run at 540 at the wheel, too.

Yes, Output Max, Grip Weight, and Grip Factor are very key to the core steering ffb feel.

Trying your settings out now...Steer Vibe is punishing on my DD but if other non-DD users prefer your Steer Vibe I'll put that in. Otherwise feels decent.

Watch out for 'soft clipping' which is happening to FFB in-game before it gets to your wheel. This happens when some ffb params, like Output Max (steering force), swamps out ffb expressed in grip scenarios (Grip Weight). You may not be at 100% strength at your wheel and feel you have enough headroom but the ffb has already been clipped in the game calculations. You can tell if this is happening if the wheel goes numb in heavy/fast corners, where all you feel is steering force rather than the bumps of the road that usually accompany corners.

 

[ToddMcDanger]

This has been quite a learning experience for me. After plugging in your v5 I am convinced this is a better way. The grip in the car is just better and the lower road noise gives more consistent results. I have increased the steering vibe value to 0.09520 (factor of ten) which is just barely perceptible for me now. I hope I have not wasted anyone's time chasing my own tail. Thanks again, Shovas for sharing your expertise. Now back to some racing.

Forgot to also mention I made minor changes to the rumble strip settings:
Magnitude 0.25 \ Freq 1.0 \ Pull -0.25

 

[Shovas]

Great to hear we're making progress for non-DD wheels! Can you attach your latest PLR?

 

[ToddMcDanger]

I agree! My wheel feels great thanks to Shovas. Latest PLT attached.

 

[Shovas]

Hopefully we can get some more people to try it out but after that I think I will bundle your PLR in as the non-DD edition of the SHO Competition FFB mod. I might also consider breaking them up by wheel, like one for CSL Elite wheels, like you have, one for AccuForce wheels, like I have, etc.

 

[Jempy]

I'll test it next week ... as I have too many things to do this weekend and monday with ACC Online.

@Shovas Which version should you advise for a Thrustmaster T300RS ( CSP V2 pedals and TH8 ) ... to have light vibrations ? ( some vibrations not needed if the sound is already enough like curbs or gravels for example ).
I prefer a good feel of grip than vibrations which can often hide a more important feel of the car.

 

[Shovas]

@Shovas Which version should you advise for a Thrustmaster T300RS ( CSP V2 pedals and TH8 ) ... to have light vibrations ? ( some vibrations not needed if the sound is already enough like curbs or gravels for example ).
I prefer a good feel of grip than vibrations which can often hide a more important feel of the car.

Try the latest beta in this comment, these are mainly for non-DD wheels although they're okay for DD wheels, too: https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/did-you-know-gtr2-supports-180hz-ffb.148936/post-3131925

^ If you don't like some effects see "Reminders about disabling effects I like but you may not like..." in the comment above

Also try the settings here that ToddMcDanger likes for his non-DD wheel: https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/did-you-know-gtr2-supports-180hz-ffb.148936/post-3133192

Good luck and thank you for giving it a try!

 

[Shovas]

I have produced a new set of FFB params inspired by AMS1's FFB params that I hope feels better for Non-DD wheels. I'd appreciate if you could try it out and let me know how it feels. Incidentally, these settings also feel good on GT Legends.

Noting GTL also feels good with these settings.

 

[Jempy]

I found 1 or 2 hours yesterday late evening to test the Shovas - v5-beta2_PLR version ... just after using for 15 minutes the previous V3 that I was using and was not perfectly OK with.

There's an interesting difference and it feels much better.
Maybe just an impression ... but this V5 seems to be more consistant and to help to feel much better the grip loss ( in a race test another car touched mine and could quickly be aware I might be loosing the car and could easily catch it ... as the loss feeling was very clear and quickly felt ).

Not yet tried Todd's one ... it'll be for another drive later.

NB: and yes it reminds me of the AMS1 FFB feel ... really fine and in this case fine as vibrations are not exagerated at all ( if in fact not totally absent ) ... not a big fan of too many vibrations ( souvenirs of my previous G27 compared to the T300RS ! )

 

[Shovas]

I found 1 or 2 hours yesterday late evening to test the Shovas - v5-beta2_PLR version ... just after using for 15 minutes the previous V3 that I was using and was not perfectly OK with.

There's an interesting difference and it feels much better.
Maybe just an impression ... but this V5 seems to be more consistant and to help to feel much better the grip loss ( in a race test another car touched mine and could quickly be aware I might be loosing the car and could easily catch it ... as the loss feeling was very clear and quickly felt ).

Not yet tried Todd's one ... it'll be for another drive later.

NB: and yes it reminds me of the AMS1 FFB feel ... really fine and in this case fine as vibrations are not exagerated at all ( if in fact not totally absent ) ... not a big fan of too many vibrations ( souvenirs of my previous G27 compared to the T300RS ! )

Oh I'm happy to hear you think it's an improvement, I wasn't sure if it would be on a non-DD wheel!

And, yes, greater consistency in grip feel is what I was going for. The higher the value of the Grip Weight the greater the loss of steering strength you'll feel in any kind of grip loss situation which I feel is too much and so I lowered that value. I'm glad you experienced the same thing.

I am really serious when I compare what GTR2 FFB *can* feel like when I compare it to AMS1 and RF1 so I'm glad you feel some similarities, too. I'm not saying it's nearly as refined or detailed in certain situations but steering force I think really comes close. Mind you I have a DD wheel and so it can be difficult to replicate for non-DD users. I'm glad you're getting benefit.

 

[Jean-Paul Sarti]

I tried Shovas-v5-beta3 with GTR2(P&G). I use a Logitech G920. It's an improvement, for sure. I had to set FFB to reverse and dial back FFB strength to about 70%. Setting it much above that leads to "chattering" you can feel (but not hear) in the wheel on straights. That's not unique to this setup, I've noticed it with other sims and suspect is't one of the reasons people gripe about the Logitech wheels -- mine is much smoother at lower strength settings.

A problem (?) is that after editing-in your settings to the .plr file and running the sim, the Spring Saturation Pos and Spring Saturation Neg values get reset to zero. I don't know what they affect, if anything.

Thanks for uploading this.