DD wheels : so few options, such a difficulty to choose

[Fastard]

I am about to buy a DD wheel and I passed quite some time searching about what the market has to offer.

I want to share my thoughts with the community hoping to get some feedback on the validity of my conclusions(at least the non subjective ones).
In plus, other members that are currently on the same boat may share their thoughts/findings on the matter.


Simagic M10 : - not interested

I didn’t like the reviews


OSW : - not interested

Not an option for someone with terrible DIY skills like me


Accuforce Pro V2 : -not interested

+good reviews

+good user feedback(especially for the software)

-stepping motor

-170 euros the shipping cost to Europe

-unknown custom fees as I had no reply from the custom office of the country I live


VRS Directforce Pro : - still considering as an option

+Barry’s statement : ‘I could be happy if this would be my only wheel’

+impressive feedback from rally drivers and visitors of SimRacing Expo

+200 euros cheaper than DD1 and SC2

-I will be an early adopter

-sent an email asking for the weight of the base as well as for the availability and had no response

-limited community of users to share experiences with

-unknown games support

-lost in the steering wheels options as I cannot identify which is the cheapest rim that will do the job*


Fanatec DD1 : - still considering as an option

+large community of users

+fanatec wheels ecosystem

+realtively cheaper than SC2 as the cost of a decent wheel is lower(a 300 euros BMW GT2 wheel can do the job*)

+available

+easy to sell if I ever decide to

-QR flex

-I don’t trust their quality control and their software

-I doubt if my GT Omega Art Cockpit can handle the 10kg of weight and the forces produced by the base**


Simucube 2 Sport : - still considering as an option

+seems to be the most reliable base

+seems to offer the best driving experience

+weights 2kg less than the DD1 and it may be manageable by my cockpit

-lost in the steering wheels options as I cannot identify which is the cheapest rim that will do the job*. I think that the minimum you need is 400 euros but again the price/quality ratio is not so clear as with Fanatec wheels.

-usb cable on the wheel(in my price range)

-unavailable



*I don’t want a fancy rim with an lcd display and many functions. I just want a wheel with a basic button box+basic paddle shifters. By ‘doing the job’ I mean finding a rim that can handle the FFB of the base with no flex. That's my only concern.

**during my research I realized that i will most probably ave to upgrade my cockpit. It will be good though to do the upgrade in 6 months time. I will be hapy if my current rig can serve me till then.

 

[RCHeliguy]

USB with a wired connection should be more direct than wireless, but either way it would be imperceptible. It's running at a minimum of 480 Mb/sec for USB 2.0 and faster for USB 3.0.

Using a cable is actually better in some ways. For example if you want an analog clutch paddle, wireless wont' do that. But the thing is that you can have one wheel wired, another wireless or one without any controls at all.

My Rally wheel has no controls and I like it that way. BTW stock Momo, Sparco, and NRG wheels bolt up directly to the SC2 wheel side QR. Each comes with a wheel adapter.

My PSE GT3 wheel is wired and has very stout connectors.
There is one wire that runs back to the USB hub and it ends just behind the vertical wheel mount. The other wire plugs in and then screws down to the back of the wheel so it could be replaced if need be and the other end plugs into the wire going to the USB hub. It has a nice sturdy connection and after plugging it in it also screws down.

It is no problem at all and personally I prefer it over the wireless options available. I won't bore you with my reasons. Both solutions work fine, but I like to keep things simple.

 

[Squared Circle]

USB solution has two obvious advantages:
- A lot more controls: AFAIK Wireless has 28 controls, USB has 64; USB also has analog support (clutches etc.). Just compare Martin Ascher's F-wheels
- Wireless is SC only (2 out of the box, 1 with add-on to the base). USB works should be platform-independent because it bypasses the base completely

 

[Squared Circle]

@RCHeliguy : Nice stuff. But believe it or not, I LOVE this mouse"pad"

 

[Deleted member 197115]

USB solution has two obvious advantages:
- A lot more controls: AFAIK Wireless has 28 controls, USB has 64; USB also has analog support (clutches etc.). Just compare Martin Ascher's F-wheels
- Wireless is SC only (2 out of the box, 1 with add-on to the base). USB works should be platform-independent because it bypasses the base completely

I would love to see wheel utilizing all 64 controls, or even 28.
Piano has 88 keys, btw.

 

[Fastard]

But the thing is that you can have one wheel wired, another wireless or one without any controls at all.

What you say is true.
With SC2 you have all the options.
From simply bolting a used rim to buying a sim precision wireless beauty.

But in my opinion a top notch wheelbase has to be combined with a top notch steering wheel.
If you want to take the max out of your hardware.
Especially if your plan is to stick with one steering wheel.

My research so far led me to the conclusion that your button box and your rim must make a light(1,5-2kg) but still sturdy combo.
And I think I could live with a medium quality light button box,
but not with an uncomfortable and possibly flexy light rim.

Because the first thing that comes in your mind is to buy a quality BB and use it with a budget entry rim.
But I think I will give priority to the rim choice.
And probably buy one pricey lightweight, rigid, comfortable and possibly beautiful rim, even without buying a BB at this phase.

Momo mod 30 is one of my favorites for example.

 

[Squared Circle]

I would love to see wheel utilizing all 64 controls, or even 28.
Piano has 88 keys, btw.

Doesn't the F28 use all 28 controls?
My guitar has 132 controls Not that I would find the right ones at the right time...

 

[TedBrosby-]

What you say is true.
With SC2 you have all the options.
From simply bolting a used rim to buying a sim precision wireless beauty.

But in my opinion a top notch wheelbase has to be combined with a top notch steering wheel.
If you want to take the max out of your hardware.
Especially if your plan is to stick with one steering wheel.

My research so far led me to the conclusion that your button box and your rim must make a light(1,5-2kg) but still sturdy combo.
And I think I could live with a medium quality light button box,
but not with an uncomfortable and possibly flexy light rim.

Because the first thing that comes in your mind is to buy a quality BB and use it with a budget entry rim.
But I think I will give priority to the rim choice.
And probably buy one pricey lightweight, rigid, comfortable and possibly beautiful rim, even without buying a BB at this phase.

Momo mod 30 is one of my favorites for example.

Basically with SC2 you have it even if you don't need it. With standard OSW or other wheels, you just use USB or whatever their proprietary tech is.

I have no criticisms of the SC2 system as an outsider because they sell the module so you can build your own solution:
https://racewerk.com/products/simucube-wheel-side-wireless-button-plate-module
It's only €27 more than a comparable BBI-32 but you'd have to solder it instead of using included push in connectors on the Bodnar board.

If you need paddle clutch, you can always just plug a different wheel plate into your USB port and you're good to go.

 

[RCHeliguy]

@RCHeliguy : Nice stuff. But believe it or not, I LOVE this mouse"pad"

I've gotten a lot of positive feedback on this.
Very off topic, but If this helps.

 

[Ruttman98]

In other news I passed the point of no return by ordering the pieces of my new 80/20 custom rig.
Took the Motedis long and hard way but I couldn't be happier with the result.

Focusing on the wheel base now.

Always SC2 Sport orientated, but still with an eye on Simplicity.

Still need some info in order to go forward with the SC2 rim research.

I can't imagine that the usb cable could create such a headache as the one I read on the forums by fellow co-racers.
I would like having some feedback from cabled steering wheels users on the matter.

And beside the obvious drawback, does the usb solution has any advantages(ex: less latency) over the wireless one?

Are you in the U.S.?

Motedis offer some great joining plate options and pricing is quite a bit less than other options from 80/20 or boutique sim rig manufacturer offerings. But how much "ouch" will there be in shipping, customs, and--as Tom Petty sang--The WAITING?

 

[Fastard]

Are you in the U.S.?

I am in central Europe and I had to pay around 45 euros for the shipping. Waiting time 3-6 days.

https://racewerk.com/products/simucube-wheel-side-wireless-button-plate-module
It's only €27 more than a comparable BBI-32 but you'd have to solder it instead of using included push in connectors on the Bodnar board.

It could be a solution.

But apart from that there are not many budget wireless button box solutions out there.

I mean you while you can find entry level usb button boxes(SRC, OSP etc.), this is not the case with the wireless ones which all are in a high price range and above.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Doesn't the F28 use all 28 controls?
My guitar has 132 controls Not that I would find the right ones at the right time...

Yeah, you are right.
While it has "only" 12 buttons and 2 paddle shifters (14 total), each joystick takes 7 inputs , and it comes with 2.

 

[rand777]

I went through the same decision process a few months ago and went with the Leo Bodnar SimSteering V2 with the SC2 being the main contender.

The reason I opted for the Bodnar was that reviewers consistently noted that it just worked out of the box and it has an already proven pedigree, being a second generation product in use by many racing teams (F1, F3, LMP1, LMP2, etc). The SC2 had a much larger array of configurable options, which makes it more flexible/tuneable, but as an aerospace engineer myself, having too many permutations of configurable values can easily lead to a less than optimal configuration, and I wanted something that I knew would work optimally out of the box without having to test all the combinations of settings myself. I also particularly liked the build quality on the Bodnar and how they separate the controller from the motor.

Due to current exchange rates I paid about $1500 less for the Bodnar now than the price I saw quoted in reviews from a few years ago so I think the Bodnar is still a value proposition if you want one of the top performing DD wheel bases.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I went through the same decision process a few months ago and went with the Leo Bodnar SimSteering V2 with the SC2 being the main contender.

Yet another reason not to use a proprietary BT steering wheel. The SC2 may be big right now, but you just never know what will be going on 5 years from now.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I went through the same decision process a few months ago and went with the Leo Bodnar SimSteering V2 with the SC2 being the main contender.

The reason I opted for the Bodnar was that reviewers consistently noted that it just worked out of the box and it has an already proven pedigree, being a second generation product in use by many racing teams (F1, F3, LMP1, LMP2, etc). The SC2 had a much larger array of configurable options, which makes it more flexible/tuneable, but as an aerospace engineer myself, having too many permutations of configurable values can easily lead to a less than optimal configuration, and I wanted something that I knew would work optimally out of the box without having to test all the combinations of settings myself. I also particularly liked the build quality on the Bodnar and how they separate the controller from the motor.

Due to current exchange rates I paid about $1500 less for the Bodnar now than the price I saw quoted in reviews from a few years ago so I think the Bodnar is still a value proposition if you want one of the top performing DD wheel bases.

Considering that out of the box configuration works for you, and if not, you'd need to learn to live with it.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Yet another reason not to use a proprietary BT steering wheel. The SC2 may be big right now, but you just never know what will be going on 5 years from now.

New USB standard?

 

[RCHeliguy]

New USB standard?

They are all backwards compatible.

USB 2.0 was released 20 years ago.
No worries there.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

They are all backwards compatible.

USB 2.0 was released 20 years ago.
No worries there.

I wouldn't be so sure though, everything is transient esp. in tech.

USB 4 specs and features: Everything you need to know about the new double-speed USB

USB is one of tech's ultimate success stories - a universal standard that took off in every way. But things have got a little confusing since.

www.pocket-lint.com

 

[TedBrosby-]

I went through the same decision process a few months ago and went with the Leo Bodnar SimSteering V2 with the SC2 being the main contender.

The reason I opted for the Bodnar was that reviewers consistently noted that it just worked out of the box and it has an already proven pedigree, being a second generation product in use by many racing teams (F1, F3, LMP1, LMP2, etc). The SC2 had a much larger array of configurable options, which makes it more flexible/tuneable, but as an aerospace engineer myself, having too many permutations of configurable values can easily lead to a less than optimal configuration, and I wanted something that I knew would work optimally out of the box without having to test all the combinations of settings myself. I also particularly liked the build quality on the Bodnar and how they separate the controller from the motor.

Due to current exchange rates I paid about $1500 less for the Bodnar now than the price I saw quoted in reviews from a few years ago so I think the Bodnar is still a value proposition if you want one of the top performing DD wheel bases.

Did you go with 52, 53 or 54?
It seems like the main advantage of the SC2 is that you have enough configuration options that you can tune it to give you the exact same FFB as a Leo Bodnar but the Pro, despite having nearly identical specifications to the SS 54, is about half the price. So it's like getting a Bodnar with the option of a wireless wheel for 40% of the price, but you have to spend time tuning it and building profiles.

I wonder if Bodnar will refresh the price/model now that the Simucube 2 Ultimate is out and quite a good DD solution for the same price...

 

[RCHeliguy]

I wouldn't be so sure though, everything is transient esp. in tech.

USB 4 specs and features: Everything you need to know about the new double-speed USB

USB is one of tech's ultimate success stories - a universal standard that took off in every way. But things have got a little confusing since.

www.pocket-lint.com

About this I'm quite sure. USB 4.0 will continue to be backwards compatible with USB 2.0 and USB 4.0 is not even available yet. The current worst case scenario is that you need a USB-C to USB 3.0 plug and those have been available for quite some time. So 20 year old USB 2.0 compatibility is guaranteed for at least another 5 years and probably well past that.

About USB 4.0: "The USB-C connector was designed to be future proof and reversible. It will be staying. The new standard will be backwards compatible with existing USB 3.2, USB 2.0 and Thunderbolt 3 hosts although if they don't have USB-C connectors they will need an adapter. "

 

[rand777]

Did you go with 52, 53 or 54?
It seems like the main advantage of the SC2 is that you have enough configuration options that you can tune it to give you the exact same FFB as a Leo Bodnar but the Pro, despite having nearly identical specifications to the SS 54, is about half the price. So it's like getting a Bodnar with the option of a wireless wheel for 40% of the price, but you have to spend time tuning it and building profiles.

I wonder if Bodnar will refresh the price/model now that the Simucube 2 Ultimate is out and quite a good DD solution for the same price...

I went with the 52 after watching the SRG review (smaller footprint and more than enough power). The 53 was the same price and the 54 was around 200+ GBP more. I don't think an SC2 could be configured to be identical to the Bodnar, just using software settings alone, as there would still be an appreciable difference in the underlying hardware and firmware, although it may be possible to get close.

The downside to having more configuration parameters, which I've seen often with commercial software, is that you have more permutations of possible settings, many combinations of which haven't been fully tested, so the burden is then on the user to do the engineering work to figure out which permutations of settings are optimal and which should be avoided. But for someone who wants to tune and tinker more may be better.

I noticed the prices of the Bodnar increased 540 GBP shortly after I purchased mine when I ordered some QRs. I suspect because of the exchange rate...