AC *Cancelled*McLaren F1 GTR @ Algarve International Circuit - Weds 24th June 2020

[Medilloni]

In please, John! MHD for me. Is this a stock car in Assetto Corsa? Never tried it. Seeing the discussion on TC and ABS it's a fearsome beast apparently.

Took me a min to get the 'MHD' there Han Sorry mate, the car is in Dream Pack 1 I believe, have just changed main post accordingly.

I guess you could call it a beast - it's beautiful to drive though imo harder than GT3's

Will give this a go please John thanks for organising

You're in Simon, welcome

 

[Kek700]

Had a laugh at that John, that really is me moaning to a tee.

While I am In a moaning mood, ABS and TC should be available, this is a very difficult car on a very difficult circuit.

Those who have hairy chests can run without, i definable will be using TC and
ABS.
Not sure yet what to chose, LHD or RHD. I’ll take the middle ground please for this one @Medilloni please.

 

[pattikins]

Had a laugh at that John, that really is me moaning to a tee.

While I am In a moaning mood, ABS and TC should be available, this is a very difficult car on a very difficult circuit.

Those who have hairy chests can run without, i definable will be using TC and
ABS.
Not sure yet what to chose, LHD or RHD. I’ll take the middle ground please for this one @Medilloni please.

In other words, you're going to be quicker with false ABS & TC than without it. It's got nothing to do with hairy chests.

 

[stribbeck]

It's OK Patrick, I get what you mean and if we had full grids every week I might not have done it

The main reason I did is we seem to be sliding out of the lockdown-thingy (seems more are back at work now) and grids are looking smaller, and I didn't want to put off anyone that finds it a handful/has little time for practice - I'm guessing it's unlikely they'd say anything on the forum. If the majority say get rid of it I've no problem with that.

Please keep abs and tc for rookies like me, people will still be quicker than me if they have them off.

 

[Kek700]

@pattikins you will still be quicker without TC and ABS than us plodders.
Spent quite a while trying to equal your time in the Ferrari at Deutsccblandring to no avail.

 

[pattikins]

@pattikins you will still be quicker without TC and ABS than us plodders.
Spent quite a while trying to equal your time in the Ferrari at Deutsccblandring to no avail.

My objection to using ABS & TC is not meant to be personal. I don't care if I'm first or last - although I do draw the line @ being lapped in a 25min race. For me, in this instance, AC stops being a sim as soon as the [artificial] ABS & TC is added to the car. Any subsequent result/performance is false. I signed up for sim racing, not simcade.

Like Han, I've not driven the car before so I have no idea how difficult it's going to be around Portimao. I'm in the same boat as everyone else.

 

[Medilloni]

Had a laugh at that John, that really is me moaning to a tee.

While I am In a moaning mood, ABS and TC should be available, this is a very difficult car on a very difficult circuit.

Those who have hairy chests can run without, i definable will be using TC and
ABS.
Not sure yet what to chose, LHD or RHD. I’ll take the middle ground please for this one @Medilloni please.

You're in Ernie!

To choose combo's I try to put in at least 10 - 20 laps, then ask, if I'd recently joined (new-ish to online racing) would I take part? And there's this in the opening post of all Craig's events which I always copy n paste; "from rookies to the seasoned pros. You will always find people around your level to battle with, so jump on in!".
I'm waffling, but that's the gist, and I've done it for two races in six months, so I hoped there wouldn't be a problem

Please keep abs and tc for rookies like me, people will still be quicker than me if they have them off.

Like all admins, I just want full grids of people enjoying racing Simon, maybe forced aids don't 'fit' for some cars (old Group C for example, they are what they are), though for some cars imo, to enjoy the race, some people need a leg-up. Including me

 

[Kek700]

It’s very difficult, not really designed for this type of circuit, it is for le-mans low downforce car relative to its 600bhp.
If I am wrong on this, put me right. Still, Very difficult car from my first drive to day.
TC and ABS make it do-able for most.

 

[Medilloni]

It’s very difficult, not really designed for this type of circuit, it is for le-mans low downforce car relative to its 600bhp.
If I am wrong on this, put me right. Still, Very difficult car from my first drive to day.
TC and ABS make it do-able for most.

Read a few articles about the car today, interesting the c of g is high compared to competitors (of that time), tried stiffer rear springs which seemed to cut the roll-oversteer (which is what it felt like to me). Interested to see how setups keep it predictable!

 

[Kek700]

An average joe soaps point of view.

Wednesday I had the privilege of racing with some of our Aliens, Chris, etc.
I took that advantage to observe that they experience something that I don’t when sim racing, feel.
That is completely missing for me, that is a complete lack of feeling from a digital image, focusing far up the road with a 2D image, that small sense of moment always catches me out, the car is well gone before I realise it.
Other things like getting your approach to a corner, your line correct, also a sense of grip from the 2D image is another thing that really good sim racers have naturally.
VR was the only thing I have found that goes someway to creating that real feeling you get in a car, but we don’t want to drag that argument up again.
Every one has a degree of that feel in their own way.
I see TC and ABS as a means of helping all comers deal with this.
Having said that I sometime dispense using TC , because I am quicker without it, but always use ABS if it is available.

ABS and TC helps to address that insurmountable problem for us mere Earth bound mortals of feel from a digital image.

 

[Kek700]

We got very close in race two i touched the grass while braking into turn one when three of us were battling and ended up 90degrees sideways alongside your car, will look good on a replay lol
Anyone save it ?

Read a few articles about the car today, interesting the c of g is high compared to competitors (of that time), tried stiffer rear springs which seemed to cut the roll-oversteer (which is what it felt like to me). Interested to see how setups keep it predictable!

Thanks for that John, will try that tomorrow, set it up quite well to day, but some of the foibles I noticed are addressed from what you say. So I will do as you say and see how it goes tomorrow.

 

[Kek700]

Reflecting on what I wrote above, it got me wondering.

When I was in my 40's I played Colin McCrae rally with a hand controller on a PS1, very well too.
I used to get into a mind set where I was in the game, felt part of it, rather like the Matrix.
When I started doing sim racing in my 70's I sort of expected the same thing to occur after a period of time, never did,
not in the slightest, still just like looking at a monitor, a feeling of detachment.

Just wondering if anyone has a view on this, maybe that is why some people are so quick and I struggle for those last seconds like most of us.

 

[HF2000]

Reflecting on what I wrote above, it got me wondering.

When I was in my 40's I played Colin McCrae rally with a hand controller on a PS1, very well too.
I used to get into a mind set where I was in the game, felt part of it, rather like the Matrix.
When I started doing sim racing in my 70's I sort of expected the same thing to occur after a period of time, never did,
not in the slightest, still just like looking at a monitor, a feeling of detachment.

Just wondering if anyone has a view on this, maybe that is why some people are so quick and I struggle for those last seconds like most of us.

Yes, I recognise that. I see Enzo making steering actions that I don't do myself because I don't 'feel' it like he does. Cost me every turn 0.1 or 0.2 s on exit.
Since a few weeks I use Real Head Monitor which gives a bit more real feeling but I don't think it made me faster.

 

[pattikins]

You're in Ernie!

To choose combo's I try to put in at least 10 - 20 laps, then ask, if I'd recently joined (new-ish to online racing) would I take part? And there's this in the opening post of all Craig's events which I always copy n paste; "from rookies to the seasoned pros. You will always find people around your level to battle with, so jump on in!".
I'm waffling, but that's the gist, and I've done it for two races in six months, so I hoped there wouldn't be a problem


Like all admins, I just want full grids of people enjoying racing Simon, maybe forced aids don't 'fit' for some cars (old Group C for example, they are what they are), though for some cars imo, to enjoy the race, some people need a leg-up. Including me

We've all been rookies & invariably answered yes to that question. I doubt the staff, back then, would've entertained the idea of compromising AC for 'newbies' - as they don't currently in rf2, ACC, or Raceroom. Perhaps you could ask the drivers in tonight's rf2 race if they mind giving you a 'leg-up'. When they stop , you can give me some feedback.

I've not noticed that you've used this option twice before, & if I've taken part in any of those races it's just gone under the radar. It doesn't make it right. I do, however, remember the time when Craig enabled ABS & TC in the Porsche 911 GT America race last December @ the last minute & it had a dramatic effect on the lap times. So much so that it had a domino effect. If you wanted to compete against your nearest rival you had no other option than to apply the in game ABS & TC. The race was a sham. At the time I didn't want to upset anyone (as I don't want to now), so I just bit my tongue.

On the bright side, some people criticise AC's driving experience as akin to driving on rails. Now they can say it has stabilisers.

 

[pattikins]

An average joe soaps point of view.

Wednesday I had the privilege of racing with some of our Aliens, Chris, etc.
I took that advantage to observe that they experience something that I don’t when sim racing, feel.
That is completely missing for me, that is a complete lack of feeling from a digital image, focusing far up the road with a 2D image, that small sense of moment always catches me out, the car is well gone before I realise it.
Other things like getting your approach to a corner, your line correct, also a sense of grip from the 2D image is another thing that really good sim racers have naturally.
VR was the only thing I have found that goes someway to creating that real feeling you get in a car, but we don’t want to drag that argument up again.
Every one has a degree of that feel in their own way.
I see TC and ABS as a means of helping all comers deal with this.
Having said that I sometime dispense using TC , because I am quicker without it, but always use ABS if it is available.

ABS and TC helps to address that insurmountable problem for us mere Earth bound mortals of feel from a digital image.

I can see Codemasters stealing that last line. . GT3 cars are my favourite cars to drive, so I'm not averse to ABS, TC or bucket loads of downforce.

In contrast to the GT3 class of cars, I've found the classic car races on RD far more difficult to handle - more than, I imagine, a Mclaren F1 GTR. Do you think I would find in any of those races a time where you've proposed that 'ABS and TC helps to address that insurmountable problem...'?

 

[Interslice]

I'd be fairly old fashioned. At the same time i'd agree with @Kek700 that unless you've spent a long time in sims or computer games, more than you have in their real life version, you're going to struggle to get a real life feel for a car.

Your mind is looking for things that aren't there in sim world and isn't looking for the things that are. Small things like the rpm spike on a downshift increasing the vacuum in your brake booster not being there or that unmistakable feeling in your stomach and the frontend when you aquaplane.

Simcade is a bit harsh imo especially with the car being built in 1995 and it's a one off drive with very little practice for some. I still think it's great that we have old lads here with these opinions keeps us honest!

 

[pattikins]

I'd be fairly old fashioned. At the same time i'd agree with @Kek700 that unless you've spent a long time in sims or computer games, more than you have in their real life version, you're going to struggle to get a real life feel for a car.

Your mind is looking for things that aren't there in sim world and isn't looking for the things that are. Small things like the rpm spike on a downshift increasing the vacuum in your brake booster not being there or that unmistakable feeling in your stomach and the frontend when you aquaplane.

Simcade is a bit harsh imo especially with the car being built in 1995 and it's a one off drive with very little practice for some. I still think it's great that we have old lads here with these opinions keeps us honest!

Clearly, I'm in a minority of one - not for the first time , so take me off the list please John. I hope you all have a good race

 

[Kek700]

Don’t be like that pattikins, we need you, you make the racing meaningful, someone to try and beat. ( even if we have to use ABS and TC ).


Just spent a bit of time with the McLaren GTR and with TC and ABS it is a very nice fun drive, still not easy, but manageable. Even old me can get the back out of shape and keep it controllable with the help of TC.
it would be nice to hope that Wednesday races were really just fun, enticing every one to sign up for just that. Especially with the advantage we have in AC with a large range of cars to choose from, I would like to see many varieties from our modding community especially.
But because this is for enjoyment, we can help others with at least making them easier to drive.
Craig put forward an old 1990’s ( something like that ) F1 car last year, took me ages and ages to get to grips with the car , No ABS no TC, eventually got the car very well dialled in, guess what nobody turned up for the race and it was cancelled.
Maybe not the only reason, but I am sure a lot of it was because as much as it took hold of people’s imagination, once they had a go at driving it , they soon bailed out of that event.

You just cannot ever talk about sim or arcade based on ABS and TC implementation. I could sit here and list a load of things that make sims not a sim and loads of things that make a sim a sim.

If I had the ability and I don’t , there are lots of outlet’s within racedepartment for the more serious, the more competitive drivers.

At the moment our group has a serious Sunday GT3 race.
It looks like SPG session are also becoming serious, which is no bad thing.
That leaves John’s Wednesday racing group which I hope is less serious and more focused towards a large selection of different circuit car combinations, would love to see if it is possible to run the GT500 class too, amongst many many other Car circuit combinations.

the end

 

[HF2000]

I haven't driven the McLaren yet so I'm unbiased for the moment and I must say that there are good points in both visions. For now I'm leaning a bit towards @pattikins because I like it as real as possible.
I remember a race a couple of months ago, organised by Joel Kuismin on the Nordschleife with supercars like the LaFerrari and also a McLaren which are basically too fast for this track, having not enough downforce and braking power. That was fun although everyone, inluding Joel and Enzo made mistakes and went off track. Actually, it was nice to see that they are humans after all. For that I'd like to have the event without tc and abs and see how I can hold my own but I will also join with it enabled and probably use it.
But isn't it an idea to switch to the McLaren P1? That car has tc and abs I believe or am I suggesting something stupid here.

 

[pattikins]

@Medilloni, I see that you are still unwell. I hope you get well soon & please accept my apologies for my earlier comments. I think you are doing a fantastic job, and I appreciate everything you do.